Gee, feels a lot like home.
Ukraine updates
- Thread starter OUBubba
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Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
Grenade probably came from the U-S-A! Good job Biden.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
The article talks about the switch to China and India. But I have also heard reports about weapons and metal machining companies selling components to Russia directly. Only the woke corporations that are linked to the governments are going along with sanctions.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
No they aren't. They are no threat to the West and we have several common interests with them that could be used to strengthen the relationship.
That was the Soviet Army which was funded by the USofA and a close ally. Also, the ideology of the Soviets was completely anti-human. It was atheistic and against natural law. Russia is still a backwards authoritarian state but they have taken some steps closer to natural law through the influence and resurgence of the Orthodox Church. Two different animals.
Russia seeks to sink the USA and the West in general. They don't think with the same thought patterns underlying Western logic and thought. They are, in many ways, still medieval in outlook. There's some amazing beauty in there in places (arts, architecture, liturgy and Church decoration, ballet, even their Easter eggs, etc.), but the Russian way is no way to run a country in the 21st Century. Russia is Russia--a totalitarian monster--whether under the Czars, the Communist Party (of which Putin is a member and a former KGB big-wig), or the corrupt Oligarchs of today.
We don't have to be enemies, but Russia is not to be trusted.
If you lie down with the bear, don't be surprised when you get mauled.
We don't have to be enemies, but Russia is not to be trusted.
If you lie down with the bear, don't be surprised when you get mauled.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
No they don't. They asked to be a part of NATO for god sakes.
Are you trying to make me like Russia? The Enlightenment introduced all the evil, atheistic, immoral stuff we see in the West right now. Getting back to medieval Christianity (but outside of the Roman church) would be a good thing.
They are more of an authoritarian state, not totalitarian. Those are 2 very different things. Communism is a whole different thing than the other two. I agree that Russia has been backwards and brutal throughout history, but 1917-1991, was a truly unique era that I hope never occurs again.
I'm not saying become allies with them. I am saying pursue economic ties and common interests wherever possible.
Why goad them into war over land no one cares about?
This is rich…
Knocking the Enlightenment???
Our very nation, our Constitution, and our Declaration of Independence are offsprings of the Enlightenment. Our principal Founding Fathers—very much Enlightenment thinkers. To deny this would be gross ignorance of history.
You’re standing on the shoulders of giants—and doing so ungratefully. .You’re knocking the underpinnings of our Constitution and form of government.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
Absolutely. While it started as a mixed bag, it set the stage for absolute wickedness. Even the name "enlightenment" was propaganda from the atheist, rationalists who supported it. It's big move was to separate faith from reason. Before that faith and reason were considered complementary, which they are.
Most of the thought of the founders predated the Enlightenment. It included some philosophers from the Enlightenment period, but specifically they followed Protestant Reformers. I am reading Samuel Rutherford's Lex Rex right now from 1644. It was much more of an influence than even John Locke. Locke took Rutherford's ideas and made them less religious, but he kept the same base principles which sprang up from the Reformation. Our nation, Constitution, and Declaration are more closely tied to the Reformation than the Enlightenment. Sola Scriptura. Sola Fide. Sola Deo Gloria.
I am not disrespecting my ancestors. I am trying to bring clarity to what they actually believed.
The Enlightenment produced most directly the French and Russian revolutions which were catastrophes. The American revolution was produced by the Reformation but the political ideas that the Reformers championed were found throughout the Medieval period.
About the Reformation's influence on politics:
How Should We Then Live? Chapter 5: The Reformation - 2nd Order Effects
About the Enlightenments influence on politics:
How Should We Then Live? Chapter 6: The Enlightenment
You were on these threads before extolling the virtues of Locke’s philosophy. Locke was one of the foremost leaders and philosophers of the Enlightenment. Locke embodied much of the Enlightenment.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
I used Locke because he is the most common name associated with the ideas. But he wasn't the only one who taught them. Natural law and natural rights theory was developed for hundreds and thousands of years. Also, Locke was a Protestant and an ardent anti-atheist. He thought atheists should be jailed or executed. He believed in the infallibility of the Bible and that natural law comes straight out of the Bible. I could have used Samuel Rutherford's name in my discussion of natural rights but no one would have known what I was talking about. But they both taught the same thing. It's just Rutherford was more explicitly Christian even though both were essentially.
On another note, Locke is considered an Enlightenment thinker but he did not separate faith from reason like many of the others did, which my criticism of the Enlightenment, not the use of reason but the stripping of reason away from everything else to understand truth.
There are scores upon scores of well-thought and documented writings on how the Enlightenment was the philosophical foundation of the American Revolution, the Declaration of Independence, and our Constitution.
Age of Enlightenment and American Revolution
Enlightenment led to the American Revolution
The Enlightenment was a substantial philosophical and intellectual foundation of the Revolution of America. It gave the revolutionary movement the theoretical foundation and concepts that motivated and supported it.
2) Focus on Individual Rights:
John Locke and other thinkers of the Enlightenment believed that people have inherent rights to things like life, freedom, and property. The colonists of America were affected by these concepts, and they came to view British policies and unrepresentative taxation as an infringement of their fundamental rights.
3) Constitution of America
The Constitution of America was written under the influence of the American Enlightenment. Political ideas advanced by Enlightenment intellectuals like Montesquieu were strongly influenced by the making of the Constitution, which includes a system of checks and balances, accountability, and a division of powers.
American Enlightenment Thinkers
1. Benjamin Franklin
2. James Madison
James Madison, who is hailed as the “Father of the Constitution,”
3. Thomas Jefferson
4. John Adams
Age of Enlightenment and American Revolution
Enlightenment led to the American Revolution
The Enlightenment was a substantial philosophical and intellectual foundation of the Revolution of America. It gave the revolutionary movement the theoretical foundation and concepts that motivated and supported it.
2) Focus on Individual Rights:
John Locke and other thinkers of the Enlightenment believed that people have inherent rights to things like life, freedom, and property. The colonists of America were affected by these concepts, and they came to view British policies and unrepresentative taxation as an infringement of their fundamental rights.
3) Constitution of America
The Constitution of America was written under the influence of the American Enlightenment. Political ideas advanced by Enlightenment intellectuals like Montesquieu were strongly influenced by the making of the Constitution, which includes a system of checks and balances, accountability, and a division of powers.
American Enlightenment Thinkers
1. Benjamin Franklin
2. James Madison
James Madison, who is hailed as the “Father of the Constitution,”
3. Thomas Jefferson
4. John Adams
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Classical liberalism is an Enlightenment philosophy.
Classical conservatism is Monarchism and hierarchical rankings based on titles of nobility and bloodline. <------ that's what we fought against. A republican form of government is anathema to classical conservatism.
Historically, and today, we as the USA stand in the camp of liberal democracies (which are offspring of the Enlightenment). Russia and various other authoritarian and totalitarian regimes vigorously oppose our freedoms.
Classical conservatism is Monarchism and hierarchical rankings based on titles of nobility and bloodline. <------ that's what we fought against. A republican form of government is anathema to classical conservatism.
Historically, and today, we as the USA stand in the camp of liberal democracies (which are offspring of the Enlightenment). Russia and various other authoritarian and totalitarian regimes vigorously oppose our freedoms.
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To come closer to understanding the Russian mind, and Putin's mind, read Aleksandr Dugin.
They see themselves (and Germany of all people, as well as China) as noble salt-of-the-Earth LAND people. They see the US, UK, and Japan as rootless and untrustworthy SEA people. And that can never change. They think there is a fundamental battle in the physical and spiritual realm between the land and the sea--and their respective peoples. They view themselves as Rome and us as Carthage (historically, this is slightly ridiculous: Rome had by far the best navy in that era of history, and was a greater sea power than even Carthage).
Religiously (Dugin is a priest as well as an author/philosopher), Russia thinks it is the heir of the Roman Empire and seat of the rightful Pope (of sorts). After the fall of Rome, the Roman Empire still held out, and even prospered in the East, based in Constantinople. In the mind of the Russian, there were 3 great centers of Christianity--Rome, Constantinople, and Moscow. After the fall of Constantinople, Moscow was the last one standing and should receive massive respect from all Christendom, and be regarded as the Worldwide seat of the religion. The ROC doesn't believe in a Pope, but I think they view the Moscow Metropolitan as some sort of quasi-Pope--best among technical equals. Of course, the Greek Orthodox Church, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, and a bunch of the other Orthodox Churches (there are many) reject the Russian view of things and strongly oppose Russia in its aggressive war on Ukraine.
To their credit, the ROC IMHO correctly sets forth Church history, in that the West wrongfully changed the Creed re: the filoque. In fact, one of the Roman Popes even admitted as much in recent years. And also, I agree with the ROC that it was the West that left the rest of Christendom in the Great Schism (not the other way around).
They see themselves (and Germany of all people, as well as China) as noble salt-of-the-Earth LAND people. They see the US, UK, and Japan as rootless and untrustworthy SEA people. And that can never change. They think there is a fundamental battle in the physical and spiritual realm between the land and the sea--and their respective peoples. They view themselves as Rome and us as Carthage (historically, this is slightly ridiculous: Rome had by far the best navy in that era of history, and was a greater sea power than even Carthage).
Religiously (Dugin is a priest as well as an author/philosopher), Russia thinks it is the heir of the Roman Empire and seat of the rightful Pope (of sorts). After the fall of Rome, the Roman Empire still held out, and even prospered in the East, based in Constantinople. In the mind of the Russian, there were 3 great centers of Christianity--Rome, Constantinople, and Moscow. After the fall of Constantinople, Moscow was the last one standing and should receive massive respect from all Christendom, and be regarded as the Worldwide seat of the religion. The ROC doesn't believe in a Pope, but I think they view the Moscow Metropolitan as some sort of quasi-Pope--best among technical equals. Of course, the Greek Orthodox Church, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, and a bunch of the other Orthodox Churches (there are many) reject the Russian view of things and strongly oppose Russia in its aggressive war on Ukraine.
To their credit, the ROC IMHO correctly sets forth Church history, in that the West wrongfully changed the Creed re: the filoque. In fact, one of the Roman Popes even admitted as much in recent years. And also, I agree with the ROC that it was the West that left the rest of Christendom in the Great Schism (not the other way around).
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I am always impressed with the Declaration of Independence. The audacity of a bunch of upstarts to announce they were declaring their independence and "and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."
How cool and courageous is that?
They had to know it would piss off George and Brits and maybe even earn derision and scorn from the Euro monarchies.
I believe they thought they would be imprisioned or killed.
It Never fails to impress me and inspire me. We need a few like them today.
How cool and courageous is that?
They had to know it would piss off George and Brits and maybe even earn derision and scorn from the Euro monarchies.
I believe they thought they would be imprisioned or killed.
It Never fails to impress me and inspire me. We need a few like them today.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
Yeah. That website is giving the official narrative, which I think is incorrect. Many of the Enlightenment thinkers didn't believe in individual rights at all. All of the thinkers that influenced the American Revolution were borrowing and building on the older political theory of republicanism that was developed throught the Middle Ages, into the Renaissance, and also the Reformation. All the guys the American founders were reading were strong Protestants who valued both faith and reason, unlike the purely humanist Enlightenment guys. Like I said and wrote about above, the Enlightenment philosophy has a much more direct influence on the French and Russia Revolutions than it does the American Revolution.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
According to the Latvian journalist I follow, he doesn't agree with the claims that Dugin is very influential. He is more of a dissident in Russia. He isn't a part of Putin's cadre at all. Using his writings is an easy way to build a false narrative about Russia though. It's much like all the rhetoric of the Biden administration about MAGA Republicans and Christian Nationalists.
Russian court orders the arrest of a bestselling writer over his support for Ukraine
"Discrediting the Russian military is a criminal offense under a law adopted after Russia sent troops into Ukraine in February 2022. The law is regularly used against Kremlin critics..."
"Discrediting the Russian military is a criminal offense under a law adopted after Russia sent troops into Ukraine in February 2022. The law is regularly used against Kremlin critics..."
So doofus wear a Ukraine tie and pin to lobby for a bill that Demx are trying to say it is a bill to take care of disaster at border.
The bill gives 20 billion for border and 60 billion for Ukraine.
Joe Biden Wears Ukraine Tie, Pin While Selling $118B Bill to American Taxpayers
Here’s an idea - sell the eastern edge of Ukraine to Putin for $100b. They are all corrupt. Might as well be corrupt too.
So doofus wear a Ukraine tie and pin to lobby for a bill that Demx are trying to say it is a bill to take care of disaster at border.
The bill gives 20 billion for border and 60 billion for Ukraine.
Joe Biden Wears Ukraine Tie, Pin While Selling $118B Bill to American Taxpayers
So doofus wear a Ukraine tie and pin to lobby for a bill that Demx are trying to say it is a bill to take care of disaster at border.
The bill gives 20 billion for border and 60 billion for Ukraine.
Joe Biden Wears Ukraine Tie, Pin While Selling $118B Bill to American Taxpayers
Biden regrets lying to you about the 'Inflation Reduction Act' - Washington Examiner
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