The Protesters: Useful Idiots

Mr D
Generally illegals can not serve in the military for obvious reasons There is IIRC provision for some to join needed for instance language skills or certain circumstances.

Look it would be wonderful in an ideal world if we could take care of everyone in the world but we can not.
As far as the children born here of illegal parents without researching it I would guess those children are also citizens of the parents' country. I know children born to illegal Mexicans are also citizens of Mexico, which I believe was the case in the post that mentioned the horror of separating a child from a parent.The USA does Not force the parent to leave the child behind.
That is the parents choice.
 
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Horn6721 said:
Generally illegals can not serve in the military for obvious reasons There is IIRC provision for some to join needed for instance language skills or certain circumstances.
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They generally cannot, but they can in very narrow situations. The few who have done so honorably should be at the front of the line for any legalization and the back of the line for deportation.

Horn6721 said:
Look it would be wonderful in an ideal world if we could take care of everyone in the world but we can not.
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Strawman. We're not talking about taking care of everyone in the world. We're talking about US citizens who are minor children, and we're not talking any taking care of them. We're talking about not forcing them to choose between the foster care system and effectively giving up their ability to live in the country of their origin.

Horn6721 said:
As far as the children born here of illegal parents without researching it I would guess those children are also citizens of the parents' country. I know children born to illegal Mexicans are also citizens of Mexico, which I believe was the case in the post that mentioned the horror of separating a child from a parent.The USA does Not force the parent to leave the child behind.
That is the parents choice.
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The US doesn't force the parent to leave the child behind, but whether the parents' native country will take the child is dependent on that country's laws. We can't force the issue, and like I mentioned earlier, the parents may be deported to different places. Either way, saving up at least several hundred dollars to move an unaccompanied minor child to Mexico or South America is going to take a while when the parent is only making $2 or $3 per hour is going to take some time. Depending on the specific situation, the kid could easily be separated from his parents for six months or a year.

I'm not saying the kid has any right for his parents to stay. You don't have a constitutional right to have parents living with you in the US, even if you're a US citizen. However, kicking the parents out and forcing the child to choose between living in his native country and living with his parents is a harsh course of action to take and difficult to justify from a moral standpoint. Laws in the US tend to favor minor children and seek to do what's in their best interests. In fact, that's probably the cornerstone to American family law, because children are defenseless, have little to no ability to petition their government on their own, and are usually innocent. Protecting their interests isn't a legal entitlement, but it's the right thing to do. Yes, a bunch of unsympathetic adults in the federal government can tell a 5-year-old US citizen with no money and who has done nothing wrong to go **** himself, but for the most part, we try to write and enforce laws in ways that avoid doing that if possible.
 
If the child is also a citizen of the illegal parents country the child is allowed. Do you have a list of countries with large populations of illegals who have given birth to chikdren here that such children are not also citizens of the parents country

Yes as I said there are certain categories of illegals who have,since 2014 been allowed to serve. Yes those people deserve to be here. This will not be a large number And this would not be people who are likely to be deported.
I am guessing the dual citizen child is not the one making the choice. Most children will choose their parent. I am guessing the parent is the one pushing the sob story of separation in the hopes we will allow a
all
 
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To be fair and show empathy with the protesters, I can understand their disappointment. To make a $10 political contribution (1/2 a year's total income?) to Hillary with the promise of receiving a free college education worth 10s of thousands of dollars, and then have that promise ripped away at the last minute would be very disconcerting.
 
Joe Fan said:
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Ha...20th Maine, 54th Massachusetts, Harriet Tubman, Frederick Douglas, Tuskegee Airman, Barbara Jordan, MLK, Harvey Milk, Frank Serpico...these are real Americans of character - heroes really in the good old fashioned classical sense of the term - who fought against oppression, racism, slavery, the Holocaust, injustice and risked their lives and careers for that fight.

These social justice warrior "protestors" who live in comfortable modern first world cities in a democracy with all the opportunities from modern capital markets and educational systems absolutely shame themselves. Those real heroes - real liberals (although I bet every one of them would reject that contemporary term) - would be embarrassed for these kids.

There are also kids at Yale and Cornell who have been given the option to skip or postpone exams because of the stress from the election. That's right...grade and high-school kids in some of the most dangerous inner city neighborhoods infiltrated with gang and drug violence still show up every day to take their exams, but these snowflakes at Cornell and Yale (makes me embarrassed to type that) can't even deal with their candidate not winning.

:facepalm:
 
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Horn6721 said:
If the child is also a citizen of the illegal parents country the child is allowed. Do you have a list of countries with large populations of illegals who have given birth to chikdren here that such children are not also citizens of the parents country
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There's more to it. It's true that countries generally will grant citizenship based on the citizenship of one's parents. However, there are potential complications that you don't seem interested in considering. First, not all countries allow for dual citizenship. That means that they may not permit the child to enter if the child doesn't forfeit his US citizenship. Second, the parents may have different citizenships and therefore be deported to different countries. Which parent should the child lose in that scenario?

Horn6721 said:
I am guessing the dual citizen child is not the one making the choice. Most children will choose their parent. I am guessing the parent is the one pushing the sob story of separation in the hopes we will allow a
all
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Obviously the parents want to stay, and I'm not particularly sympathetic to them. However, the children also have a "sob story," and I am sympathetic to them. After all, they are US citizens and have done nothing wrong. It's a matter of priorities. Is it more important to stick it illegal aliens as hard and as quickly as you possibly can, or is it more important to protect innocent children? Morally, I think it's more important to do the latter. I think that's what Jesus would do.

Spin it how you want, but if you make the parents leave, you're harming the child in almost every scenario. If you deport the parents and the child stays, he loses his parents. If the child joins his parents (or one of his parents), then he leaves a country of great social and economic opportunity to live in a corrupt ******** with very little opportunity. It's a raw deal for him either way. If the parents are dangerous people, then I think it's easier to justify deportation, because there's an interest in protecting the public from injury. However, if the parents are otherwise law abiding, then I think the moral case for deportation is much harder to make.
 
Joe Fan said:
The modern liberal .....

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There is no doubt that these people have a warped view of reality, to put it kindly. But they are no more representative of "the modern liberal" than neo-Nazis are of "the modern conservative". Major liberal leader and the vast majority of their followers are acting like adults.
 
NJlonghorn said:
.... But they are no more representative of "the modern liberal" than neo-Nazis are of "the modern conservative". ....
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Funny.
But these people actually voted for Hillary in this most recent US election
It is unlikely any actual Nazi still alive and eligible to vote in the US voted for Trump
 
NJlonghorn said:
Major liberal leader and the vast majority of their followers are acting like adults.
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Obama is getting an A+ from me on this one. But a lot of the "adults" in my life who voted Hillary - even though they aren't breaking windows of small businesses and curb stomping Trump supporters - are pretty insufferable right now. I feel bad for them, but I hope they snap out of their depression and OD themselves out from all the protesting , change.orging, and Facebooking before Thanksgiving so I can get some work and socializing done around here.
 
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texas_ex2000 said:
There are also kids at Yale and Cornell who have been given the option to skip or postpone exams because of the stress from the election. That's right...grade and high-school kids in some of the most dangerous inner city neighborhoods infiltrated with gang and drug violence still show up every day to take their exams, but these snowflakes at Cornell and Yale (makes me embarrassed to type that) can't even deal with their candidate not winning.
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I know it is fun to bash East Coast liberals with a broad brush. However, there is very little truth to the narrative about Yale canceling midterms. (I can't speak to Cornell, but I suspect it is a similar story). To summarize the article at this link:
  • Some Yale students did request that midterms be canceled. The university swiftly and emphatically denied that request, and almost all midterms went forward as scheduled, with no changes or accommodations.
  • One Yale professor gave his students the option to cancel one midterm. One other professor changed his midterm from in-person to take-home. That is the entire scope of the issue.
The article doesn't discuss it, but the prevailing opinion amongst the student body seems to be that the cancelation requests are silly.
 
So Twitter banned Clint Eastwood (lol) but allows this stuff

Over 28,000 tweets and retweets of "Rape Melania"
Could you imagine the reaction if this were reversed to "Rape Michelle?" OMG -- it would be all CNN talked about


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NJlonghorn said:
That is the entire scope of the issue.
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Yeah...sad. Yale has faculty who optioned and cancelled mid-terms. Yale students requested mid-terms be cancelled. Whether we like it or not, Yale faculty and students (of which I was one) are supposed to be leaders in the academic sector. The scope is the example they set for the rest of academia - which is far reaching.

Do you think this $#!^ happens at Annapolis or West Point?

The "it's really only a few examples" is exactly what divides people in this country. It's only a little thing, it's only a few of us, we're really smart - after all we're Yalies - so we deserve special consideration, etc.

That is not what is taught at the Naval Academy. Character and honor is just about little things as it is about big things. The single performance of the lowliest member of your team is a reflection of your leadership. A person's character and honor are most tested in difficult times, not when you're winning and everything is hunky dory. These are also concepts that regular hardworking people understand.

What we're seeing on social media, mainstream media, and in the streets is a painting of the opposite.
 
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Joe Fan said:
Funny.
But these people actually voted for Hillary in this most recent US election
It is unlikely any actual Nazi still alive and eligible to vote in the US voted for Trump
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I think he meant neo-Nazis in the United States, not actual German national socialists from the '30s. Nevertheless, if Heinrich Himmler and Hermann Görring came back from the dead and could vote in the US, they'd choose a Trump over Hillary. On the flip side, Stalin and Lenin would probably choose Hillary.
 
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Mr D
This probably deserves it's own thread .
But you keep saying some countries do not grant citizenship to a child born in another country.I know Mexico does and that is where the majority of illegals come from
What countries do not grant citizenship?
Do you truly think there are large numbers of illegals who come here,meet and have Children? Those situations should be decided by the parents, Again that is not something the USA caused.
Is the question whether a child is better off with what we hope are loving parents or in a foster care System?
As far as them going back to economic hardship many legal citizens face economic hardship here. We can not ease every hardship in the world.

We separate children from parents going to prison. Should we just let the convicted parent go so the innocent child does not suffer?
 
Mr. Deez said:
I think he meant neo-Nazis in the United States, not actual German national socialists from the '30s.
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(1) I say there is no such thing. To the extent they do exist, it is only in the mind. Give me an example of where they exist (and you may NOT use "the movies!")

(2) Liberals always conveniently forget the Nazis were socialists. Hitler himself was a proud socialist.

(3) So, if there really are Nazis or neo-Nazis out there today as you guys maintain, they are on the left. As far as I can see, the closest thing that exists today in the US are the current pro-Hillary protestors -- they are the bullies who do violence and threaten violence and the only ones willing to suppress the rights of others extrajudicially.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/hitler-and-the-socialist-dream-1186455.html

Whose rhetoric does this most closely match?
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