The Media Industry

[Phil Elliott]

Taken as a whole and in context, we probably have the most irresponsible fiscal policy in the history of the United States. It's pretty much impossible to defend.

Neither party gives a crap about that and that horse was out of the barn long before DJT ran for POTUS. That is not a reason to dump on DJT. Who in the entire field of candidates from 2016 or 2020 would do better, has even touched on this subject?

 

[OUBubba]

If he's not inciting violence, then people (if they're being honest, which most political commentators are not) need to stop talking as though he is. Should he joke around when some redneck jokes about shooting people? No, but it doesn't promote violence anymore than Obama's comment about bringing a gun to a knife fight (which some Republicans criticized) promoted violence. Were both comments ill-advised? Yes. Promoting of violence? No.

And if he had shut that guy down by saying something like, "no, we don't shoot people. We just enforce the laws," it wouldn't have stemmed violence. (Frankly, it probably wouldn't have gotten any meaningful news coverage.) The El Paso shooter still would have gone on his rampage, because he's a nut. I don't mean legally insane. He knew what he was doing and knew it was wrong. He's a nut because he has nutty values and beliefs and was willing to do something nutty to enforce those values and beliefs.

You realize that the "gun to a knife fight" thing is an analogy stolen from pop cultrue and not a call to arms, right?

Trump has empowered these people. It really saddens me what he's done to the office. I was not a big W fan but I respect him and he did his best to uphold the values of the office.

 

[OUBubba]

Taken as a whole and in context, we probably have the most irresponsible fiscal policy in the history of the United States. It's pretty much impossible to defend.

I concur. In the past the conservatives served as a jake break to the spenders (Dems with their silly social programs and the hawks wanting decades of overseas interventions). That brake is gone and it's troublesome.

 

[OUBubba]

Neither party gives a crap about that and that horse was out of the barn long before DJT ran for POTUS. That is not a reason to dump on DJT. Who in the entire field of candidates from 2016 or 2020 would do better, has even touched on this subject?

In my memory DJT spoke on the subject that we were going to be amazed at how good he was going to be on these things. Spoiler alert, he's not been good on these things.

Trump promised to eliminate the deficit, it’s set to rise to $1 trillion

• In his official campaign launch address, Trump promised to “reduce our $18 trillion in debt,” which will not happen if annual deficits hit $1 trillion in two years.
• On the campaign trail, Trump said he would “freeze the budget,” which has certainly not happened.
• Shortly before his inauguration, he told Fox News host Sean Hannity that he would “balance the budget very quickly… I think over a five-year period. And I don’t know, maybe I could even surprise you.”
• Previous to that, in March 2016, he told Bob Woodward that he could get rid of the debt “fairly quickly.” When pressed, he said, “Well, I would say over a period of eight years.” Since Trump took office, his own budget director called that promise“hyperbole.”
• Trump asserted during the second presidential debate that he would bring back energy companies, which would make so much money that they could pay off the national debt. This has not happened.

 

[UTChE96]

That is not a reason to dump on DJT.

Sure it is. He criticized Obama for his irresponsible spending so it is a fair reason to dump on Trump. He has been a fiscal disaster as has the rest of the Republican party. It may not be a differentiating reason as the Dems will likely accelerate our fiscal suicide. But at some point it would be nice to have at least one adult running for POTUS.

 

[mchammer]

You realize that the "gun to a knife fight" thing is an analogy stolen from pop cultrue and not a call to arms, right?

Trump has empowered these people. It really saddens me what he's done to the office. I was not a big W fan but I respect him and he did his best to uphold the values of the office.

Only one side started identity politics and victimization.

 

[Monahorns]

I agree that Trump has been irresponsible fiscally. Maybe the worst ever because of the increased deficit. That is bad and worse than Obama, simply because the Republicans in the House and Senate held firm on the across the board spending cuts (can't remember what that was called).

Economically he has been okay with tax cuts, regulation cuts, and tariffs. The first 2 being stimulative to economy and the 3rd being stifling. Mixed bag but better than Bush, Obama, and Clinton. Clinton increased regulation to a huge degree and raised taxes during his term.

Monetary policy hasn't been the worst ever. It still isn't good, but Obama's 0% Fed rate for many years was astonomically awful. Now we are at 2.25-2.5%. Still not at a natural level. Trump pushing for lower is bad too, talk about currency manipulation. He made a good appointment to the Fed Board with Judy Shelton. Not perfect, but probably the best to hope for in this economic environment.

So a mixed bag overall, but better in 2019 than an Obama 3rd term or Clinton 1st term.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Neither party gives a crap about that and that horse was out of the barn long before DJT ran for POTUS. That is not a reason to dump on DJT. Who in the entire field of candidates from 2016 or 2020 would do better, has even touched on this subject?

Neither party gives a crap now. That didn't used to be the case. The GOP has had its fiscal hawks. (Even the Democrats have had some in the past.) However, like any party, it's going to follow its leader. When its leader decides that he doesn't care about the deficit, they're not going to care either - not because they don't think it matters but because they know their political risks would be in vain. And Trump sure as hell doesn't care. In fact, I can't think of any previous president who cared less.

Does that mean it's all Trump's fault? No. As I indicated in a previous discussion on this, Congress (especially the House) appropriates money. They don't have to spend like drunken sailors. However, they share in the power to set spending levels with the President. If they know he's going to veto a bloated budget, they will think twice before passing one. If they know he isn't going to push for a sensible budget, they aren't going to accept the risks of forcing one. The bottom line is that there sure as hell is a reason to dump on Trump for the deficit problem, as there's a reason to dump on everybody who helps set or influence fiscal policy. There's a shitload of blame to go around.

Would anybody from the 2020 field do better? No. We've got Trump against a bunch of Democrats who are pledging to take a terrible fiscal situation and make it worse. However, plenty from the 2016 field would have done better. For starters, virtually everybody from the Republican field supported entitlement reform. That's huge. In fact, it's the biggest long term fiscal crisis we have. Trump opposed it, which means entitlement reform basically died when he won the nomination, and that happened at a terrible time, because our off-budget entitlement programs (Social Security and Medicare) begin running a deficit next year for the first time in 35 years. The day of reckoning is here, and we have nobody from either party who wants to deal with it. And yes, Trump bears significant responsibility for that.

 

[Horn2RunAgain]

You realize that the "gun to a knife fight" thing is an analogy stolen from pop cultrue and not a call to arms, right?

.

Words matter.... (when it benefits one's agenda)

 

[Mr. Deez]

You realize that the "gun to a knife fight" thing is an analogy stolen from pop cultrue and not a call to arms, right?

Yes, I do know that. My point is not that Obama made a call to arms. My point is that nobody has made a call to arms.

Trump has empowered these people. It really saddens me what he's done to the office. I was not a big W fan but I respect him and he did his best to uphold the values of the office.

You're repeating a vague, sanctimonious talking point, not a reality. In what way has Trump "empowered these people?" And give me something objective - not vague, subjective blather. I don't think you can do it.

Trump opposes illegal immigration, and he criticizes illegal immigrants. Not everything he says is true or helpful. In fact, some of it is stupid, but none of it is a call to arms directed at illegal immigrants. You can badmouth people for crossing the border illegally and not be calling for those people to be shot just like you can criticize specific incidents by police officers (even falsely) without it being a call to shoot police officers.

 

[Monahorns]

However, plenty from the 2016 field would have done better. For starters, virtually everybody from the Republican field supported entitlement reform.

That is why I voted for Cruz in the primary. He fought Obama and virtually everyone else over budgeting and lower government spending. I don't know what his view on entitlements was, but he was a Tea Party Senator who acted like economics was important to him and he suffered for it.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

That is why I voted for Cruz in the primary. He fought Obama and virtually everyone else over budgeting and lower government spending. I don't know what his view on entitlements was, but he was a Tea Party Senator who acted like economics was important to him and he suffered for it.

Me too. I'd still back him if he ran again.

 

[Mr. Deez]

A good article on the fiscal dumpster fire.

 

[OUBubba]

Yes, I do know that. My point is not that Obama made a call to arms. My point is that nobody has made a call to arms.



You're repeating a vague, sanctimonious talking point, not a reality. In what way has Trump "empowered these people?" And give me something objective - not vague, subjective blather. I don't think you can do it.

Trump opposes illegal immigration, and he criticizes illegal immigrants. Not everything he says is true or helpful. In fact, some of it is stupid, but none of it is a call to arms directed at illegal immigrants. You can badmouth people for crossing the border illegally and not be calling for those people to be shot just like you can criticize specific incidents by police officers (even falsely) without it being a call to shoot police officers.

Charlottesville and the fine people...."jews will not replace us"

 

[OUBubba]

Fanning the flames of conspiracy theories like QAnon or everyone's favorite Texan, Alex Jones.
The white supremacists think he's one of them.
He does not discourage violence at his rallies (see McCain, John for how you're supposed to be a decent human in that regard)

 

[mchammer]

Charlottesville and the fine people...."jews will not replace us"

Read the transcript - Trump didn’t call white supremacists “fine people”.

 

[bystander]

Why does the Left argue away Islamic terrorism as a fringe group (even though they are a member of a fundamentalist religious sect that is highly homophobic and misogynistic) but is trying to paint every white Republican male as a white supremacist and potential terrorist. The hypocrisy in the profiling is beyond belief.

 

[horninchicago]

Why does the Left argue away Islamic terrorism as a fringe group (even though they are a member of a fundamentalist religious sect that is highly homophobic and misogynistic) but is trying to paint every white Republican male as a white supremacist and potential terrorist. The hypocrisy in the profiling is beyond belief.

Votes.

 

[2003TexasGrad]

Why does the Left argue away Islamic terrorism as a fringe group (even though they are a member of a fundamentalist religious sect that is highly homophobic and misogynistic) but is trying to paint every white Republican male as a white supremacist and potential terrorist. The hypocrisy in the profiling is beyond belief.

Because some people think their **** dont stink.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Charlottesville and the fine people...."jews will not replace us"

When did Trump say, "Jews will not replace us?"

He also didn't call those who did "fine people." That is an out-of-context characterization.

Fanning the flames of conspiracy theories like QAnon or everyone's favorite Texan, Alex Jones.
The white supremacists think he's one of them.

Again, this is vague. What white supremacist has he empowered? Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, and lots of left-wing freaks thought Obama was "one of them" because he wasn't on bad terms with them. That didn't make it so.

He does not discourage violence at his rallies (see McCain, John for how you're supposed to be a decent human in that regard)

Most people don't "discourage violence" at their rallies. They amp up the crowd to motivate their base. And FWIW, you guys crapped on McCain at the time, so his good example didn't do much for him.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Read the transcript - Trump didn’t call white supremacists “fine people”.

Yep. I bought that narrative for awhile. Then I read the transcript. It's horse ****.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Why does the Left argue away Islamic terrorism as a fringe group (even though they are a member of a fundamentalist religious sect that is highly homophobic and misogynistic) but is trying to paint every white Republican male as a white supremacist and potential terrorist. The hypocrisy in the profiling is beyond belief.

It's the same reason transgenderism is becoming an issue for them. They want the votes of Muslims, but they also want a wedge, identity politics issue they can use to foster moral superiority in liberal white, non-Muslims. They simply set aside the politically inconvenient facets of Islam.

 

[LongestHorn]

White supremacy groups organized and attended the rally. Who were the fine people POTUS was referring to? The peaceful racists, Spencer and Kessler?

 

[Mr. Deez]

White supremacy groups organized and attended the rally. Who were the fine people POTUS was referring to? The peaceful racists, Spencer and Kessler?

Dude, you're a partisan tool, so it's pointless to get into it with you. Go read the transcript in context. It's pretty clear. You won't admit anything here, but you can at least see it for yourself.

 

[LongestHorn]

QUESTIONinaudible) started this (inaudible) Charlottesville. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest…

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP:Excuse me, excuse me. (inaudible) themselves (inaudible) and you have some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides.You had people in that group -- excuse me, excuse me -- I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

Fine people attended the rally. That context, Mr. Deez?

 

[Mr. Deez]

QUESTIONinaudible) started this (inaudible) Charlottesville. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest…

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP:Excuse me, excuse me. (inaudible) themselves (inaudible) and you have some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides.You had people in that group -- excuse me, excuse me -- I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

Fine people attended the rally. That context, Mr. Deez?

No, read the entire transcript of the discussion. If you do, you'll see that the "good people" were the people there to protest the removing of the statue. He made it clear that he was condemning the neo-Nazis.

I'm not a fan of Confederate statues. I've argued that point many times here, but those who disagree with me aren't per se neo-Nazis.

 

[OUBubba]

No, read the entire transcript of the discussion. If you do, you'll see that the "good people" were the people there to protest the removing of the statue. He made it clear that he was condemning the neo-Nazis.

I'm not a fan of Confederate statues. I've argued that point many times here, but those who disagree with me aren't per se neo-Nazis.

The good people should have gone to their F-150 and swung by Cracker Barrel on the way home once they saw the white power crowd. The good people saw the news from Friday night (I did) of the young white nationalists with their fresh haircuts and their tiki torches chanting blood and soil and jews will not replace us. It would be like going to a longhorn road game and you're staying in the team hotel. You walk by the ball room and you see A&M Midnight Yell at the Fort Worth Stockyards — Fortworth Stockyards an aggie Friday night yell practice starting up and you re-think your hotel choice.

 

[OUBubba]

Why does the Left argue away Islamic terrorism as a fringe group (even though they are a member of a fundamentalist religious sect that is highly homophobic and misogynistic) but is trying to paint every white Republican male as a white supremacist and potential terrorist. The hypocrisy in the profiling is beyond belief.

Islamic terrorism is the Cincinatti/Fresno State of threats to you and me. White nationalism is the Penn State/Florida/LSU of threats to you and me. We're much more likely to die in the hail of gunfire from a disaffected 21 year old who's been radicalized by QAnon than by some Islamic group. DHS told us that a decade ago and the right lost it. Turns out they were right. The election of a black president did more to spurn the growth of white nationalism than anyone would have thought. Hell, it's becoming mainstream now.

 

[OUBubba]

When did Trump say, "Jews will not replace us?"

He also didn't call those who did "fine people." That is an out-of-context characterization.



Again, this is vague. What white supremacist has he empowered? Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, and lots of left-wing freaks thought Obama was "one of them" because he wasn't on bad terms with them. That didn't make it so.



Most people don't "discourage violence" at their rallies. They amp up the crowd to motivate their base. And FWIW, you guys crapped on McCain at the time, so his good example didn't do much for him.

He did NOT distance himself from that crowd. The fact that the white nationalists think he's a white nationalist is telling. He's empowered the whole movement.

 

[iatrogenic]

The good people should have gone to their F-150 and swung by Cracker Barrel on the way home once they saw the white power crowd. The good people saw the news from Friday night (I did) of the young white nationalists with their fresh haircuts and their tiki torches chanting blood and soil and jews will not replace us. It would be like going to a longhorn road game and you're staying in the team hotel. You walk by the ball room and you see A&M Midnight Yell at the Fort Worth Stockyards — Fortworth Stockyards an aggie Friday night yell practice starting up and you re-think your hotel choice.

So you agree that there were good people at the event.