The Media Industry

UTChE96 said:
He clearly did what he did because he was mentally disturbed. Any other argument is an attempt to score cheap and shameless political points.
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Or it's applying logic to his rambling statement and his planned target.

You're more than welcome to offer "thoughts and prayers" to the next families of victims while the rest of us seek out potential solutions to reduce the carnage
 
Ok SH
Since you think the rest of us do not want to find a way to stop mass shooters in the country including places like Chicago etc
How would you SH define potential shooters?
 
Seattle Husker said:
Or it's applying logic to his rambling statement and his planned target.
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You want to apply logic to the ramblings of a lunatic? This is a guy that cited Dr freaking Seuss as a defense of killing humans to protect the environment. I agree that he was targeting Mexican immigrants but he obviously also was motivated by his desire to protect the environment. From his deranged perspective it was two birds with one stone.

In the end, the guy was clearly mentally ill. Not sure how any rational person can argue otherwise.
 
horninchicago said:
Joe Scarborough defended Castro on MSNBC. However, Willie Geist pressed him on the doxxing. Interesting, Castro says it was not his intent to cause potential harm to any of the donors, but Geist very stoically said that is what will happen.

Shocking clarity from an MSNBC personality.

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Morning Joe is controlled by Mika’s p. If people don’t know this, they are idiots.

BTW, he was a rino anyway. He has now become a flaming liberal because of Mika’s P.
 
Horn6721 said:
Ok SH
Since you think the rest of us do not want to find a way to stop mass shooters in the country including places like Chicago etc
How would you SH define potential shooters?
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Defining potential shooters...like FBI profiling? That has a minimal amount of usage since mass killers never get away.

Stop trying to conflate gang bangers with domestic terrorism by calling it "mass shooters". The difference in motivation of the gang banger and the domestic terrorist is as large as the gap between my political ideology and yours. The conflation of the vastly different scenarios is a blatant attempt to whitewash the motivations behind the majority of our mass killings.

Given the prevalence of guns and resistance to restricting freedoms in our society these attacks are a way of life. You'll never be able to predict and stop all intended mass killers. So what to do?

Yes, mental health is vastly underfunded in our health system but I'm not convinced mass killers are "crazy" in a traditional sense. One study I read said only 14% of mass killings were consucted by a person diagnosed with a mental illness, even posthumously. A "crazy" person doesn't meticulously execute a massacre like the one in Vegas or write a 2300 word "manefesto" the drive 9hrs and post it 5 minutes before starting their attack. Video games are a ruse and you can't MAKE someone be religious.

The real question is how to limit their impact on you and me. Limit the carnage. Don't allow easy access to a weapon that can commit mass carnage is a very short period of time. China has domestic terrorism also. The difference there is that the perpetrators are carrying machetes and knives rather than AR-15 with 100 round drums. That fact alone limits the damage someone can do and body counts lead to media coverage. Limit the opportunity to get news attention and that will have the greatest impact on this phenomenon. Banning all guns will never fly and is stupid. Removing weapons designed for war and associated accessories seems entirely appropriate to limit the damage.
 
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1) The "conflation" of gang-bangers and mass murderers such as what happened in El Paso is because we never see Democrats on their soapbox about gun control after the gang-bangers do their dirty deeds.

2) Writing a 2,300 word rant, driving nine hours to El Paso and murdering 23 people sounds pretty crazy to me. You can't get away with that because the next step or two away is to say anyone who objects to the wholesale abuse of our immigration laws (or who is a Republican) is a potential mass murderer and should be profiled and have their 2nd Amendment rights taken away.

3) China? You want to cherry-pick or would you like to add the communist despotic human rights violating template on top of their wonderful gun control laws?
 
Seattle Husker said:
The El Paso shooter clearly didn't drive 9hrs due to concerns about Natural Resource usage or environmental concerns. You may want to ask yourself why you want to focus on the other parts of the manifesto
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More mind reading. You sir, are incredible!
 
Seattle Husker said:
Or it's applying logic to his rambling statement and his planned target.

You're more than welcome to offer "thoughts and prayers" to the next families of victims while the rest of us seek out potential solutions to reduce the carnage
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I would think targeting populations with high birth rates fit into his crazed world view regarding environmental destruction.
 
This shooter isn't too bright. He didn't have to drive all the way to El Paso to shoot up Wal-Mart that had a lot of Mexican immigrants in it. He could have just driven 20 minutes from Allen to the Wal-Mart at US 75 just before LBJ. That place is at least as Mexican as El Paso. A co-worker of mine in the late '90s used to call it "Wal-Martinez." (He was Latino. Obviously a white guy couldn't get away with that.)
 
I think the Red Flag laws are dangerous.
I see the need to make sure mentally ill people dont have the chance to commit violent crimes.
But wow there are so many scary things about Red Flag laws.
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Horn6721, Red Flag laws can be scary but it all depends on how they are written. If they are written narrowly requiring evidence other than hearsay and rumors and are temporary, then they can be an important tool to fight mass shootings like the El Paso guy. Currently, there isn't a way to bring law enforcement into the situation before something happens. There needs to be a way for the people to contact law enforcement when someone they are close to is going down the wrong path.

Now, I agree. Red Flag laws can be abused if written a certain way. But I do think it is a good way to have a measure that focuses on the actual problem instead of criminalizing a good thing (gun ownership).
 
Monahorns said:
Horn6721, Red Flag laws can be scary but it all depends on how they are written. If they are written narrowly requiring evidence other than hearsay and rumors and are temporary, then they can be an important tool to fight mass shootings like the El Paso guy.......
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I think the chances that any new Red Flag law would be written narrowly are slim and none. And slim is looking really shaky. Remember who are the people writing these laws, and what kinds of people who are on their staff.

Also consider that John Roberts can decide to broaden any law to match what we idiots really need, even if we don't realize we need it.
 
4th_Floor, I guess my hope is that they are written as state law. I have a little more faith in Texas lawmakers than Federal lawmakers.

If nothing else, it would be something a Conservative can point to and say "we did that". Then if it blows up in their face they can say "never make that mistake again."
 
As I understand it now what Trump is in favor of is legislation that would help each state write its' own Red Flag law.
I need to read a law already in place.
I know yesterday the police shot and killed a 71 yo man whose gun they were trying to take under the Red Flag law

Remember the regulation Obama wanted would have taken guns from veterans who needed help managing VA benefits.
 
For those trying to downplay domestic terrorism and the role white supremacist ideology plays in it I present you FBI Director Christopher Wray's congressional testimony on July 23rd of this year.

 
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Seattle Husker said:
For those trying to downplay domestic terrorism and the role white supremacist ideology plays in it I present you FBI Director Christopher Wray's congressional testimony on July 23rd of this year.

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Downplay? It's the Left that is attempting to paint every Republican as a white supremacist and every black or Hispanic Republican as either an Uncle Tom or an coconut. It's not downplaying; it's the context. There is no doubt this is being used as a political tool to eliminate the Republican Party once and for all.

Concentration Camps. Nazi's. White Supremacists. Racists.

All designed to destroy the opposition.

There are millions and millions of white American Republicans who aren't as they contend.
 
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You're more than welcome to offer "thoughts and prayers" to the next families of victims while the rest of us seek out potential solutions to reduce the carnage
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False dichotomy.

False assumption that only people who agree with your solution are seeking solutions at all.

Stop trying to conflate gang bangers with domestic terrorism by calling it "mass shooters". The difference in motivation of the gang banger and the domestic terrorist is as large as the gap between my political ideology and yours.
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Ok, but why does that mean that we must separate them entirely?

The conflation of the vastly different scenarios is a blatant attempt to whitewash the motivations behind the majority of our mass killings.
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The separation of mass killings from other mass killings based on gang membership or lack thereof is a blatant attempt to get the data to reach the conclusion you want it to.
 
bystander said:
Downplay? It's the Left that is attempting to paint every Republican as a white supremacist and every black or Hispanic Republican as either an Uncle Tom or an coconut. It's not downplaying; it's the context. There is no doubt this is being used as a political tool to eliminate the Republican Party once and for all.

Concentration Camps. Nazi's. White Supremacists. Racists.

All designed to destroy the opposition.

There are millions and millions of white American Republicans who aren't as they contend.
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You can poop but the leading candidates for President are all on point. You have a blind spot.
 
Monahorns said:
4th_Floor, I guess my hope is that they are written as state law. I have a little more faith in Texas lawmakers than Federal lawmakers....
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I guess the Texas Legislature is a little better than the US Congress, but only by a little. I am disappointed with what came out of the past session. There's not much to be proud about. I have very little faith in the Texas Legislature.
 
Most terrorist attacks in the United States, and most deaths from terrorist attacks, are caused by white extremists.

From 2009 through 2018, right-wing extremists accounted for 73 percent of such killings, according to the ADL, compared with 23 percent for Islamists and 3 percent for left-wing extremists.
 
Let's be clear. The El Paso incident made me sick. I know a lot of people who live out there and have been in communication with some of them. The shooter may well be a white supremacist. He ain't me. He ain't anybody I've ever known.

And yes, Trump should tone down the rhetoric. But he should also do his job like Obama did (3 million deportations). If the Left doesn't like the law then work with Congress.

But I do not trust Beto et al one bit. They are political opportunists. I would grant that Beto is personally affected by this but he was saying he'd vote to impeach Trump BEFORE the Mueller report came out. Kamala, Booker, AOC etc have been attacking Trump and white people (supremacists/privilege) ALL ALONG. That is what I'm arguing about. The political stakes are very high and there is no middle ground from the Left. Castro's revelations of Trump's donor's is prime evidence that they want Republicans to be attacked as racists. ALL OF THEM.

Here is a poem I wrote about El Paso and posted on my Facebook page.

El Paso

i want to walk through its doors
see them gather their clothes
tell them i love their brown skin
so they know i’m not one of those

i want to see the red stained tiles
the tears that tried to wash it away
to the river their people try to cross
now the blood of Christ as they pray

who would so punish our neighbors
in such a way that they would seek
revenge because they cannot believe
in the faith of turning another cheek?

will the hill of the bible speak loudly?
will Malverde return to plant seeds?
finally someone told us what is truth
El Paso, in whom God is well pleased

Here is something else I posted on Facebook:

This may seem to be a political comment but it's more my impression of people's emotions and how we can soothe our minds. If you are concerned that our Hispanic friends want revenge on white people then think about how our Islamic friends feel when an apparent Islamic terrorist attacks white people. It's the same thing. Innocent people suffer no matter who is the perpetrator and who is the victim. That is why we ALL need to stand up and say, "ENOUGH!"

What is the answer? I don't have it. It may be a combination of things involving gun control and mental health. But the climate in the air is what I am thinking about and I believe it is important to protect the innocent even if they look like the killer. And if you look like the killer then it is also important that you protect the targeted victims.

It may take decades to solve the problem. We dropped two atomic bombs on Japan and regardless of your opinion about that, it was a tragedy for many innocent people. Yet today we are close friends of the Japanese people and love their country. And what is the relationship between Israel and Germany? How did we get to this point of peace and understanding after what seemed like hopeless division and hatred?

A movement arose from the ashes that said we must change our ways.

We must work together and not separate ourselves. Do not think of yourself as a color; think of yourself as a soul.

If you believe THOU SHALT NOT KILL then maybe you already know where you stand.

Don't underestimate the power of your words. There may be someone who is listening. What message are you sending?
 
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bystander said:
Let's be clear. The El Paso incident made me sick. I know a lot of people who live out there and have been in communication with some of them. The shooter may well be a white supremacist. He ain't me. He ain't anybody I've ever known.

And yes, Trump should tone down the rhetoric. But he should also do his job like Obama did (3 million deportations). If the Left doesn't like the law then work with Congress.

But I do not trust Beto et al one bit. They are political opportunists. I would grant that Beto is personally affected by this but he was saying he'd vote to impeach Trump BEFORE the Mueller report came out. Kamala, Booker, AOC etc have been attacking Trump and white people (supremacists/privilege) ALL ALONG. That is what I'm arguing about. The political stakes are very high and there is no middle ground from the Left. Castro's revelations of Trump's donor's is prime evidence that they want Republicans to be attacked as racists. ALL OF THEM.

Here is a poem I wrote about El Paso and posted on my Facebook page.

El Paso

i want to walk through its doors
see them gather their clothes
tell them i love their brown skin
so they know i’m not one of those

i want to see the red stained tiles
the tears that tried to wash it away
to the river their people try to cross
now the blood of Christ as they pray

who would so punish our neighbors
in such a way that they would seek
revenge because they cannot believe
in the faith of turning another cheek?

will the hill of the bible speak loudly?
will Malverde return to plant seeds?
finally someone told us what is truth
El Paso, in whom God is well pleased

Here is something else I posted on Facebook:

This may seem to be a political comment but it's more my impression of people's emotions and how we can soothe our minds. If you are concerned that our Hispanic friends want revenge on white people then think about how our Islamic friends feel when an apparent Islamic terrorist attacks white people. It's the same thing. Innocent people suffer no matter who is the perpetrator and who is the victim. That is why we ALL need to stand up and say, "ENOUGH!"

What is the answer? I don't have it. It may be a combination of things involving gun control and mental health. But the climate in the air is what I am thinking about and I believe it is important to protect the innocent even if they look like the killer. And if you look like the killer then it is also important that you protect the targeted victims.

It may take decades to solve the problem. We dropped two atomic bombs on Japan and regardless of your opinion about that, it was a tragedy for many innocent people. Yet today we are close friends of the Japanese people and love their country. And what is the relationship between Israel and Germany? How did we get to this point of peace and understanding after what seemed like hopeless division and hatred?

A movement arose from the ashes that said we must change our ways.

We must work together and not separate ourselves. Do not think of yourself as a color; think of yourself as a soul.

If you believe THOU SHALT NOT KILL then maybe you already know where you stand.

Don't underestimate the power of your words. There may be someone who is listening. What message are you sending?
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I appreciate the sentiment of the poem, bystander. I only wish it would have been voiced BEFORE the El Paso incident rather than focus your ire on the critics of the rhetoric. Better late than never.

I know you aren't a racist. My request is for you not to enable them by staying quiet or worse trying to cut down the critics. As a half-Cuban male, the rhetoric that led to inciting the El Paso shooter could just as easily resulted in you being the innocent target.

Are Beto and other politicians on the left helping? Absolutely not but until Trump's own base holds him accountable I don't see any other option. I sincerely hope that some left-wing extremist isn't triggered from the rhetoric.

You have a genuine position on illegal immigration. Let's have a genuine conversation on how to solve that problem. Donald Trump is incapable of leading that conversation. Any belief that he was should have been dispelled by his campaign launch at the bottom of that escalator.
 
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Seattle Husker said:
I appreciate the sentiment of the poem, bystander. I only wish it would have been voiced BEFORE the El Paso incident rather than focus your ire on the critics of the rhetoric. Better late than never.

I know you aren't a racist. My reqyuest is for you not to enable them by staying quiet or worse trying to cut down the critics. As a half-Cuban male, the rhetoric that led to inciting the El Paso shooter could just as easily resulted in you being the innocent target.

You have a genuine position on illegal immigration. Let's have a genuine conversation on how to solve that problem. Donald Trump is incapable of leading that conversation. Any belief that he was should have been dispelled by his campaign launch at the bottom of that escalator.
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My entire presence here is the battle over political hypocrisy. I'm a Democrat. I'm upset about what has happened on the Left. I think Trump wins again in 2020 because of the hysteria and extremism. That is not what I necessarily want but at the same time my form of "Democrat" is a Conservative without the religious influence which means I am pro-choice and in favor of gay marriage. At the same time, I do not trust "interpretations" of the Constitution. It gets too political which is why I'm not a Liberal.

I recognize the need for immigration reform. I struggle with the idea of capitulation due to the sheer magnitude of the situation. But those are the facts on the ground as they say in Israel. It is what it is. It is a mega-trend human migration that cannot be stopped (assuming that is what people want); only mitigated somehow. But to what degree? What does mitigation mean? A limit? How is that enforced?

As for the poem; you've not seen anything on here but I can assure you that I have written many similar to it including one called "Hearts Without Borders" which I post here now. It's not that it's a good poem. It's the sentiment.

Hearts Without Borders

When you know
Of their blood
And their children
And what they are told
Then why are you surprised?

Who gives the orders
And who decides?
Hearts have no borders
Rivers take no sides

When you know
Why they come
To breathe the same air
To live with hope
Then why are you unforgiving?

Who gives the orders
And who decides?
Hearts have no borders
Rivers take no sides

When you know
That they are desperate
Because of no birthright
Except love of family
Then why are you afraid?

Who gives the orders
And who decides?
Hearts have no borders
Rivers take no sides

When you know
They only want what you want
No more no less
Than a happy home
Then why are you angry?

Who gives the orders
And who decides?
Hearts have no borders
Rivers take no sides
 
bystander said:
My entire presence here is the battle over political hypocrisy. I'm a Democrat. I'm upset about what has happened on the Left. I think Trump wins again in 2020 because of the hysteria and extremism. That is not what I necessarily want but at the same time my form of "Democrat" is a Conservative without the religious influence which means I am pro-choice and in favor of gay marriage. At the same time, I do not trust "interpretations" of the Constitution. It gets too political which is why I'm not a Liberal................
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You sound more like a libertarian (small l intended, the Libertarian party is nuts) than a Democrat. I don't think there is room for you in today's Democrat party.
 
4th_floor said:
You sound more like a libertarian (small l intended, the Libertarian party is nuts) than a Democrat. I don't think there is room for you in today's Democrat party.
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You may be right. I guess I was sort of trying to join a party that actually mattered. I could vote Libertarian or not vote at all. My basic philosophy is more what I say if asked. It has no place in this country. At least no place with power.

Based upon reality, I'd rather a judge say no than try to figure out how to make it work.
 
Statalyzer said:
The separation of mass killings from other mass killings based on gang membership or lack thereof is a blatant attempt to get the data to reach the conclusion you want it to.
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Not really. It's a recognition that sans removing all guns, the solutions to the problems will be unique to both situations. Conflating them all but assures any "solution" to be ineffective sentencing us all to more thoughts and prayers
 
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