Death toll in Texas elementary school; 18 children, 2 adults killed

[iatrogenic]

It is only irrelevant if you don't understand crisis management.

I like you mb227, but common sense is wonderful in any situation. If crisis management involves fumbling around with your velcro for an hour while kids are killed, I think I can do without that training.

 

[OUBubba]

Having grown up in a small town 400+ miles from Uvalde, I can only speculate, but feel sure that being a policeman or fireman in Uvalde is not one of the better paying jobs in Uvalde County. I am confident in thinking the PD & FD are under funded and as such lack training.

My mother used to tell our fire chief (few people knew we had one) that she was proud of him because his department had NEVER lost a vacant lot to fire.

That said, the PD knew the bad actors in town and kept them in check.

I grew up in a town with one elementary school about 1/6th the size of Ulvade. They are underfunded and underpaid. I think they'd act different. My uncle was a deputy. He kicked in a door and took a guy that had a shotgun without firing a shot while the police and highway patrol covered him. There were no kids being murdered at the time. Police across the country in all shades of states are not funded properly. They should have just handed their weapons to the parents and let them go in there. It might have saved some lives.

 

[SabreHorn]

Am I wrong? I thought the press conference indicated that he had stopped shooting by the time police arrived.

 

[iatrogenic]

I grew up in a town with one elementary school about 1/6th the size of Ulvade. Police across the country in all shades of states are not funded properly. They should have just handed their weapons to the parents and let them go in there. It might have saved some lives.

Damn, lighting strikes the same place twice.

 

[OUBubba]

Am I wrong? I thought the press conference indicated that he had stopped shooting by the time police arrived.

Liberal rag WSJ reports that there was a 12 min shootout BEFORE he went into the school.

 

[Horn6721]

Well we know he shot a little girl after the police got into the building

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

Liberal rag WSJ reports that there was a 12 min shootout BEFORE he went into the school.

Nobody's reporting is worth a ****. Why are you waving the liberal rag WSJ around as though that makes the information golden?

 

[Horn6721]

There are no words. From DPS presser

 

[Horn6721]

Here is the whole presser.

 

[Monahorns]

Having grown up in a small town 400+ miles from Uvalde, I can only speculate, but feel sure that being a policeman or fireman in Uvalde is not one of the better paying jobs in Uvalde County. I am confident in thinking the PD & FD are under funded and as such lack training.

Well, then hell let the kids die! Quite a bargaining chip for a pay raise huh?

 

[theiioftx]

I feel like it’s Sunday On the Field around here today.

 

[OUBubba]

Nobody's reporting is worth a ****. Why are you waving the liberal rag WSJ around as though that makes the information golden?

Because I wouldn't post a CNN or NBC link here as it would be referred to as fake news. I figure you guys trust places like the WSJ. But, maybe you're migrating to an Alex Jones model and are going to start calling all of these people crisis actors. Who knows?

 

[mb227]

Because I wouldn't post a CNN or NBC link here as it would be referred to as fake news. I figure you guys trust places like the WSJ. But, maybe you're migrating to an Alex Jones model and are going to start calling all of these people crisis actors. Who knows?

With as many walk-backs as have already occurred in roughly 72 hours, I don't trust ANY news outlet right now on this story (or many others). The rush to be 'first' has to end and an emphasis needs to be placed on an absolute requirement to get it "right."

 

[OUBubba]

 

[mchammer]

Putting this here. Who knows what is accurate:

 

[guy4321]

A swathe of changes are required to significantly lower school shootings in America. Despite 99.99999% of Americans not willing to shoot kids in school, the aftereffects are so damaging we must spend more time, money, and energy to prevent it. The list is wide enough that it’ll anger everybody, but the focus on a single issue is insufficient to have a measurable change. Each topic is equally important and necessary – they just have to be listed individually to be communicated.

1. School safety – each public school needs to be covered like an airport. All folks enter through the front door, which has a security station and properly trained personnel to handle intruders with firearms. Side and back doors can only be opened from the inside. An alarm sounds if a side or back door is left open for a set amount of time. Windows need to be openable from the inside only, and window glass needs to be bullet-proof. There might need to be an active shooter alarm to pull similar to the fire alarm. Kids need to do active shooter drills just like they do fire drills, which sadly includes play dead and don’t yell for help for elementary students, if the shooter is in your room.

2. Entertainment – society must stop glorifying violence. The vast majority of school shooters are teenagers or in their early 20s. I bet their pre-teen to shooting day entertainment consumption history contains many adult labeled or rated games, movies, television shows, and music. Every decade, these forms or entertainment are more violent (and foul in other areas) than in previous decades. The ratings become laxer as time passes too. A film that would be R rated in the 1970s can pass for PG-13 today. That’s because the film rating agency works for the studios! It’s beyond time to strictly enforce R and NC-17 ratings based on level of violence. It seems only nudity can constantly get the scary NC-17 mark. Pornography is classified as free speech yet accepted to be only legal for people 18 and older. Violent entertainment needs to be the regulated the same way – free to create but punishable for showing to minors. I know everybody will jump up and down and say they’ve been watching R rated films since age six yet they wouldn’t dream of shooting kids. Yeah, we’ve already established most people won’t. We’re worried about the 0.00001% who will.

3. Guns – it’s time to make it harder to legally get semi-automatic rifles. They’ve been used in Newton, Parkland, and now Uvalde plus other high-profile shootings. This isn’t a ban on all guns nor attack on people who currently have AR-15s. Raise the minimum age for these purchases from 18 to 25 or to anyone with a good record in the military.

4. Love – let me guess. Each shooter was an outcast, a loner mocked for something like a speech impediment or the way he dressed – a somebody who didn’t even have a Sunday School teacher who said, “Jesus loves you” or a father present. You want less school shootings, unmarried dads? Then be in your child’s life! Minors need positive role models in the home and in the community. It may not be fun to take your kids to church, but they need it. Sorry first amendment atheists, teachers need to be able to share that kind of ultimate sacrifice of love. Teachers shouldn’t be required to say it, but over a course of 12 years, a student will get multiple chances to hear it. With each student being exposed to positive messages, there’s an increased chance that they’ll be nicer to their peers.

5. Discipline - there’s too much of a push that teachers are to blame for a student’s poor behavior. Idiotic political concepts like No Child Left Behind sound great on paper but make no sense in execution. A small number of kids are so disruptive that they should be removed from the classroom so that the remaining students can focus on learning. The trouble ones belong in boot camp type military academies (if parents agree) or juvie (if parents don’t agree to the academy). Then the student needs to stay there until the behavior substantially improves! To avoid a teacher sending each child who (s)he dislikes, require five teachers, assistant principals, and specialists to agree. That wouldn’t be hard. In fact, many will probably have a change in behavior once they learn getting sent away is a real possibility.

6. Police – they need to enter the building quickly. Some may get injured or killed but waiting for SWAT isn’t the answer. Gunmen don’t enter schools in the US to take hostages. If someway the gunman kills every cop entering, SWAT is still coming. Each cop found loitering around should be removed from duty.

Each point could be expanded upon, but attempting to remove a point is only going to limit the overall effectiveness. I’m well aware point 3 will anger conservatives and points 4-5 will anger liberals. Suck it up. You have to compromise to get change.

 

[theiioftx]

Jane you ignorant slut.
https://post.futurimedia.com/wwtn/playlist/34/listen-6071.html?cb=1653514189.837702

 

[iatrogenic]

This is wrong. I wonder how the people in Nice, France feel about trucks since a middle eastern turd ran over and killed 86 citizens.

 

[OUBubba]

Well played on the awesome pull of the SNL insult. 10/10

Here's where that comes from: https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ault-weapons-law-brought-down-mass-shootings/

Louis Klarevas, a research professor at Teachers College at Columbia University, studied high-fatality mass shootings (six or more people) for his 2016 book “Rampage Nation.” He said that compared with the 10-year period before the ban, the number of gun massacres during the ban period fell by 37 percent and that the number of people dying because of mass shootings fell by 43 percent. But after the ban lapsed in 2004, the numbers in the next 10-year period rose sharply — a 183 percent increase in mass shootings and a 239 percent increase in deaths.

In a more recent study co-written by him and published by the American Journal of Public Health in 2019, Klarevas also measured the impact of banning large-capacity magazines and concluded that such bans end up saving lives. “When LCMs were involved, the average death toll for gun massacres increased by 62 percent,” he said. “Jurisdictions that did not have LCM bans in place experienced a 129 percent increase in the incidence rate and a 206 percent increase in the fatality rate of gun massacres.”

 

[SabreHorn]

Mona,

Funding is critical to training and equipping the first responders. All I was saying is that it seems that the PD was not trained to handle this type of situation, neither were they equipped. Obviously, the Uvalde PD serves as the ISD police because the ISD is too small to have its own PD as we see in larger cities.

Would the outcome have been different if the money had been spent to train the PD? I have no idea and won't if and until the facts come out.

My last trip to Uvalde was a decade ago when I drove down from Concan for cell service and food. The officer pretty much picked me up at the city limits and followed me to that big store that sells guns, food and has a restaurant. When I got out of my truck, he pulled up and asked me if everything was ok. Asked what I was doing and told me the food was really good in there but "a little pricey"

 

[guy4321]

Ugh! That teacher is going to live with guilt forever.

11:27 a.m.: Video shows that an exterior door to Ross Elementary School that gunman Salvador Ramos entered was propped open by a teacher.

Though CNN spells the school name wrong.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

11:27 a.m.: Video shows that an exterior door to Ross Elementary School that gunman Salvador Ramos entered was propped open by a teacher.

Security measures always seem like a pain in the ***, and like they can be disregarded until all of a sudden, you learn why they were in place to begin with.

This is an awful, awful consequence this teacher will have to live with for doing something that was totally innocent, and probably done for simple (and understandable) convenience. This is why annual teacher training on security measures is very important. Unfortunately, teachers get mind-numbed with fluff training every year during in-service before the school year begins, and important things can be missed due to brain fog from all the fluff.

 

[Horn6721]

So last year Uvalde had had 48 lock downs during the first few months of school year.

"The Uvalde public school district is no stranger to campus lockdowns. In October 2021, Mayor Don McLaughlin reported the district had been forced into lockdowns 48 times during the first few months of the school year, largely due to human smuggler pursuits near campuses.

At the time, Uvalde Mayor McLaughlin joined with a commission of local government representatives of Kinney and Uvalde Counties to demand action from the Texas Department of Emergency Management (TDEM) regarding the growing border crisis, Breitbart Texas’ Randy Clark reported. The county and city officials detailed the consequential impact of the border crisis on local resources.

Robb Elementary School, one of the district’s seven schools, became the scene of one of the worst mass-casualty shootings in American history on Tuesday morning when an 18-year-old man entered the school. By the time the incident ended, the shooter killed 19 students and two teachers.

The mayor told TDEM officials that Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District officials had to lock down schools “48 times this year due to high-speed pursuits and migrants fleeing from law enforcement.”

So what does Biden etc do?
reminds us DHS will not arrest illegals in Uvalde.
From DHS
"The site of the tragedy in Uvalde, Texas is a protected area. To the fullest extent possible, ICE and CBP will not conduct immigration enforcement activities there so that individuals, regardless of immigration status, can seek assistance, reunify with family and loved ones, and otherwise address the tragedy that occurred."
DHS Statement on Safety and Enforcement Following Shooting in Uvalde, Texas | Homeland Security.

 

[mb227]

Security measures always seem like a pain in the ***, and like they can be disregarded until all of a sudden, you learn why they were in place to begin with.

This is an awful, awful consequence this teacher will have to live with for doing something that was totally innocent, and probably done for simple (and understandable) convenience. This is why annual teacher training on security measures is very important. Unfortunately, teachers get mind-numbed with fluff training every year during in-service before the school year begins, and important things can be missed due to brain fog from all the fluff.

Sadly, the focus on important things like SAFETY was probably left until the end of the day after all the CRT crap had been covered...in other words, just like the Friday afternoon sessions of a CLE where everyone has either zoned out or literally left the building.

 

[Horn6721]

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

So what does Biden etc do?
reminds us DHS will not arrest illegals in Uvalde.
From DHS
"The site of the tragedy in Uvalde, Texas is a protected area. To the fullest extent possible, ICE and CBP will not conduct immigration enforcement activities there so that individuals, regardless of immigration status, can seek assistance, reunify with family and loved ones, and otherwise address the tragedy that occurred."
DHS Statement on Safety and Enforcement Following Shooting in Uvalde, Texas | Homeland Security.

I don't suppose it would do any good to ask you to stop using this tragedy to further your Biden bashing. It is unseemly the same way as BobFrank crashing the news conference. There are a lot of other threads where that can be done, and you know I love a good Biden bash as much as anybody. Just not here.

 

[Horn6721]

Sangre
Biden etc actions are destructive and this action that directly affects Uvalde is egregious in the extreme.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

Telling people they won't be arrested and deported is egregious in the extreme? If you say so.

 

[Horn6721]

?
Did you read the part about 48 lockdowns in only a few months due to illegals high sped chases near schools?
Think that is ok and not dangerous for kids?

 

[Monahorns]

3. Guns – it’s time to make it harder to legally get semi-automatic rifles. They’ve been used in Newton, Parkland, and now Uvalde plus other high-profile shootings. This isn’t a ban on all guns nor attack on people who currently have AR-15s. Raise the minimum age for these purchases from 18 to 25 or to anyone with a good record in the military.

Hell no.