Death toll in Texas elementary school; 18 children, 2 adults killed

OUBubba said:
Suicide deaths are, you know, deaths. They’re a huge problem as well. They sometimes come with murders too.
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Yes but they are not gun crimes. Its obviously misleading to lump suicides in with gun crimes committed against others. If you want to discuss suicides then it should be in a completely separate context.

Furthermore if someone wants to commit suicide then they will find a way to commit suicide. Is it less of a tragedy if they slit their wrists with a knife rather than using a gun?
 
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OUBubba said:
But THEY DID NOT DEFUND! Complete red herring to even mention it.
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My initial comment had to do with the vilification of the police in general (as mentioned by Jason Whitlock) and the psychological impact on their "courage."

Defund the police is part of the overall climate in that regard.
 
If as the DPS head said the LEOs(including USMarshals) didnt go in because they didnt want to get shot every one of them needs to be "defunded" and charged with dereliction.
watching those vids of armed police restraining parents from wanting to go in for their babies, restraining them while doing nothing is infuriating and heartbreaking.
Yes we should wait for more facts but what facts could possibly justify not trying to get the shooter?
If there was more than one armed officer (and we know there was) how many could the shooter shoot at once?
It is hard to imagine a plan to do nothing while children are bring killed is the right plan.
 
Horn6721 said:
If as the DPS head said the LEOs(including USMarshals) didnt go in because they didnt want to get shot every one of them needs to be "defunded" and charged with dereliction.
watching those vids of armed police restraining parents from wanting to go in for their babies, restraining them while doing nothing is infuriating and heartbreaking.
Yes we should wait for more facts but what facts could possibly justify not trying to get the shooter?
If there was more than one armed officer (and we know there was) how many could the shooter shoot at once?
It is hard to imagine a plan to do nothing while children are bring killed is the right plan.
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Mark the date and time. I agree 100%.
 
Bubba
That is the parent in all of us.
I know you feel for the dad who was trying to organize other parents to go in when the police wouldn't and was stopped by police.
His daughter died. How can he live with that knowing maybe he could have saved het?
 
OUBubba said:
But THEY DID NOT DEFUND! Complete red herring to even mention it.
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The point is that to ever defund the police is a fool’s errand. Obviously with only four campus police officers, Uvalde CISD either doesn’t have enough funding or the local government is misusing what they have. The liberal idea of defunding the police is as dumb as it gets, so you and yours should stop mentioning it.
 
What do YOU think happened? Do you think the killer went in, shot somebody once every five minutes or so until he was taken out?

Or is it more plausible he went in, sprayed bullets around a classroom killing all within the first couple of minutes, and was then essentially prevented from killing others due to the presence of LEOs who kept him more or less pinned in one place.

If, like most sane people, you see scenario #2 as more plausible, then she was dead before dad had the chance to organize anything. Yes, dad couldn't have known that, but LEOs were right to hold him back.
 
It is interesting that a survivng child told of the police when they did enter yelling for anyone who needed help to yell help.One girl did and the shooter killed her She was someone's daughter
.There were injured who might have survived if medical attention were available.
So no I don't agree it was better for the parents to not have tried to go in since the police wouldn't
 
Without either of us being there all of these posts are 100% Grade-A speculative ********.

Go ahead, agree, don't agree. Speculate away. Be the best Monday morning quarterback you know how to be. It changes nothing.
 
I'm really blown away by the blind trust many of you are putting in the police here.

Not only did they sit around for 40 to 60 minutes doing nothing. They also tackled a father to the ground to prevent him from going into the building to help. They handcuffed a mother. They tased another man and had tasers drawn to tase any parent who wanted to engage.

We also heard the story of the girl who was killed because the police said to call out and she did.

These people deserve no defense what so ever. A few parents with guns probably do a better job if the police didn't even exist. At least in this case. It's like Stockholm syndrome or something. The police enforced covid lockdowns which violated natural rights. The lockdowns weren't even a law. They were dictatorial edicts from king Abbot and judges.

With attitudes like this on both sides it is only going to get worse.
 
Sangre Naranjada said:
Without either of us being there all of these posts are 100% Grade-A speculative ********.

Go ahead, agree, don't agree. Speculate away. Be the best Monday morning quarterback you know how to be. It changes nothing.
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It is speculation, but the human body is an amazingly tough organism and can survive horrific things. I can vouch for that and we all know it’s true. We saw it with Columbine.

If the police were waiting to move, they had no reason to stop parents from trying to save their kids. I’m sure you as a parent would not have been held back. Tasing and handcuffing those parents was more than out of line. It is instinct to do everything you can to save your children.
 
iatrogenic said:
It is speculation, but the human body is an amazingly tough organism and can survive horrific things. I can vouch for that and we all know it’s true. We saw it with Columbine.

If the police were waiting to move, they had no reason to stop parents from trying to save their kids. I’m sure you as a parent would not have been held back. Tasing and handcuffing those parents was more than out of line. It is instinct to do everything you can to save your children.
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If the only reason Uvalde police are on the payroll is to write speeding tickets, then there needs to be a massive # of firings to take place. If the above accounts are true then these cops are cowards. Nothing more.

Disgraceful
 
OUBubba said:
But THEY DID NOT DEFUND! Complete red herring to even mention it.
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Even if not 'defunded,' there is nothing at the moment which suggests they were properly FUNDED to begin with, especially given all the other crap in that part of the State that they have had to deal with due to the mismanagement of the border.
 
theiioftx said:
While I agree, I think you are talking the Donna incident. I’m hearing the Uvalde ahole was previously reported.
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That claim about the Uvalde shooter was being walked back in some reports this AM. Also mis-attributed to him had been a claim at the age of 13 or 14 that he wanted to shoot up a school in his senior year.

Again, the networks (ALL of them) have been in such a rush to fill the minutes that they are running with every rumor, founded or unfounded.
 
And it is the crappy quality and staggering volume of the news reporting that drives the wildly speculative ******** that is being Monday morning quarterbacked here and on social media all over the country, if not the world.
 
iatrogenic said:
Hopefully the facts come out soon, but DPS said they waited an hour to go in.

Who gives a **** about prisoners fighting? You can wait for all the backup you want.

I don’t need to be a prison guard to know you don’t wait to try and save little kids.
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You demonstrate that you know NOTHING about the reality of altercations in the correctional setting. They are not always just a simple fist fight. And, in my day, we had no batons and no protective gear as we walked the unit...now, there is still no baton given to most staff but at least they have the (utterly useless IMO) OC spray.

The point that you seem so willing to overlook is that you NEVER know precisely what you are dealing with in an emergency which is why some manner of evaluation of the incident AND a plan is necessary.

It is nice and easy to puff up the chest and say "OH, I would have done blah, blah, blah" but that is ALSO how additional people get hurt or killed. It is also the reason why the parents were not allowed into the building, because then you are introducing additional targets into the mix. Containment is an absolute must in ANY sort of an incident, followed by neutralization.
 
mb227 said:
You demonstrate that you know NOTHING about the reality of altercations in the correctional setting. They are not always just a simple fist fight. And, in my day, we had no batons and no protective gear as we walked the unit...now, there is still no baton given to most staff but at least they have the (utterly useless IMO) OC spray.

The point that you seem so willing to overlook is that you NEVER know precisely what you are dealing with in an emergency which is why some manner of evaluation of the incident AND a plan is necessary.

It is nice and easy to puff up the chest and say "OH, I would have done blah, blah, blah" but that is ALSO how additional people get hurt or killed. It is also the reason why the parents were not allowed into the building, because then you are introducing additional targets into the mix. Containment is an absolute must in ANY sort of an incident, followed by neutralization.
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Prison violence and an active shooting where children and teachers are at risk are SIGNIFICANTLY different. The only thing comparable would be Adam Corolla's fake movie "Pedoph-isle". A pre-Epstein plot.
 
mb227 said:
You demonstrate that you know NOTHING about the reality of altercations in the correctional setting. They are not always just a simple fist fight. And, in my day, we had no batons and no protective gear as we walked the unit...now, there is still no baton given to most staff but at least they have the (utterly useless IMO) OC spray.

The point that you seem so willing to overlook is that you NEVER know precisely what you are dealing with in an emergency which is why some manner of evaluation of the incident AND a plan is necessary.

It is nice and easy to puff up the chest and say "OH, I would have done blah, blah, blah" but that is ALSO how additional people get hurt or killed. It is also the reason why the parents were not allowed into the building, because then you are introducing additional targets into the mix. Containment is an absolute must in ANY sort of an incident, followed by neutralization.
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I am not discussing correctional settings. That is irrelevant to this discussion.

Edit: where did I ever say it would be easy? It takes a huge amount of courage to go after the shooter. I’m sure the adrenal glands would be going wild.
 
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OUBubba said:
Prison violence and an active shooting where children and teachers are at risk are SIGNIFICANTLY different. The only thing comparable would be Adam Corolla's fake movie "Pedoph-isle". A pre-Epstein plot.
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And hell has frozen over…..I actually agree with Bubba
 
Having grown up in a small town 400+ miles from Uvalde, I can only speculate, but feel sure that being a policeman or fireman in Uvalde is not one of the better paying jobs in Uvalde County. I am confident in thinking the PD & FD are under funded and as such lack training.

My mother used to tell our fire chief (few people knew we had one) that she was proud of him because his department had NEVER lost a vacant lot to fire.

That said, the PD knew the bad actors in town and kept them in check.
 
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