Death toll in Texas elementary school; 18 children, 2 adults killed

It is quick and easy to say 'all those cops and nobody went in guns blazing.' However, that is also precisely how people get hurt (or worse) who might not be hurt or killed with an effective plan.

In some respects, it is the same as when I worked in the prisons. We could see a fight and sometimes a stabbing in a dayroom. However, you DID NOT enter without sufficient resources AND a plan. And since shooter incidents are not all created equally, it isn't as though there is just one plan to work from.

All the rush to judgment by politicians and talking heads is NOT helping anyone. It will also interfere with the investigation that necessarily HAS to follow in the coming days and weeks.
 
I understand mb
and know you are right. But as all those armed men spent time planning innocent children were being murdered.
And 90 mins?
I wonder if the Border Agent who went into the building and ended it gave it much thought when he got there. We don't know but since other Border Agents had kids there if this Here had a child there too
 
Horn6721 said:
I understand mb
and know you are right. But as all those armed men spent time planning innocent children were being murdered.
And 90 mins?
I wonder if the Border Agent who went into the building and ended it gave it much thought when he got there. We don't know but since other Border Agents had kids there if this Here had a child there too
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While no loss of a child should be acceptable, people NEED to stop and consider how much larger the death toll could have been with a no-plan rushing in by LEO's. After all, we have likely all seen the ball cap of the one who had a graze wound...

There are no easy solutions and I don't even know WHICH timeline to believe right now because of the rush to put crap on the ticker crawls without concern of accuracy.
 
I understand mb's point, but if I'm an armed adult/ LOE in the area I'm going to confront the shooter.

To mb's point, the officers inside might have done a good job of containing the killer, or kept him from going room to room. We won't know until the final reports. It could be that all those who were shot were done so in a matter of minutes

But as a grandfather I would find it impossible not to confront the killer, in an armed physical presence . It had to end and the killer was not going to be taken alive. Sometimes you have to do what's needed
 
I am by no means an expert, nor should anyone take this with anything but a grain of salt. My only experience was as a school board member of a private school. I received a notification to not come to the school under any circumstances. My child was locked down in the school. West Houston had a hit squad loose. and they had already slaughtered a family and were looking for the daughter, who was in middle school.

What did I do? Went straight to the school where my daughter was. Before I could get out of the parking garage downtown and to the school, HPD, DPS, Texas Rangers, FBI had snipers on the roof, helicopter overhead, and the place looked like a fortress. No one was allowed within a couple of hundred yards until the feds removed the child in an armored car. Everyone was safe, but it seemed to me that the feds knew exactly who they were looking for. Great response time.

Uvalde is much smaller, with a ton less resources. Is the answer "neighborhood watch" for our schools? I dare say that 90% of Uvalde County owns guns, with all of the ranchers owning AK47s or the equivalent.
 
Horn 2
yes and those parents begging the armed dudes to go in is chilling

Sabre
WE already knew what you would do. NEVER a doubt.

My question aren't US Marshal supposed to be able to react?
 
"The town’s mayor, Don McLaughlin, told Fox News host Tucker Carlson just days before the mass shooting that President Joe Biden’s border policy had been causing armed car chases that force local schools to lock down about once per week.

But Felicity Fry, also a 17-year-old senior at Uvalde Classical Academy, estimated it’s probably closer to twice per week. She described it as “shelter in place,” where no one is allowed out of the building."

Sometimes Retrospection sucks
 
Isn't the mayor the fat guy that called Beto a "sick son of a *****"?

I want to write him in for governor in November. Can you imagine if we replaced Cornyn with that guy? (Of course, if that happens, sell your Victoria's Secret stock quick.)
 
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Kinney County has crap for LEOs. They are more concerned with illegal stops on Hwy 90 than law enforcement.

A prison fight is not an elementary school with helpless kids. If officers failed to go in immediately they should suffer consequences of, at a minimum, termination. Even if it were one officer on-site, it would have been one trained officer with a flak jacket versus one untrained 18 year old. There is ZERO excuse to not do your job. The DPS officer said he would “circle back” on the issue of waiting an hour. Unbelievable!

Now that Schumer’s statement is wrong, is he going to stop blocking legislation?
 
iatrogenic said:
Kinney County has crap for LEOs. They are more concerned with illegal stops on Hwy 90 than law enforcement.

A prison fight is not an elementary school with helpless kids. If officers failed to go in immediately they should suffer consequences of, at a minimum, termination. Even if it were one officer on-site, it would have been one trained officer with a flak jacket versus one untrained 18 year old. There is ZERO excuse to not do your job. The DPS officer said he would “circle back” on the issue of waiting an hour. Unbelievable!

Now that Schumer’s statement is wrong, is he going to stop blocking legislation?
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Tell me you have never been a solo officer on a cell block without telling me.

Just in my 35 years of time working around the prison system, there have been staged fights for the specific reason of harming an officer who was stupid enough to enter without back-up...some of those officers have died and people were sentenced to death for those actions.

If some of the reports of the Uvalde incident are to be believed, the killing did not continue en masse after officers were in the building. I've seen reports that the gunfire turned towards the officers in the building who were trying to get in position to breach the room.

What is inexcusable is the incessant demands that agencies know less than 48 hours later what went right and what went wrong. There is a reason DPS Incident Response reports run more than a hundred pages. I've seen more than one report prepared by the Rangers, and even drug buy-busts have been known to run 30-40 pages. They need time to review ALL of the audio that exists and ALL of the video that exists.
 
Horn2RunAgain said:
I understand mb's point, but if I'm an armed adult/ LOE in the area I'm going to confront the shooter.

To mb's point, the officers inside might have done a good job of containing the killer, or kept him from going room to room. We won't know until the final reports. It could be that all those who were shot were done so in a matter of minutes

But as a grandfather I would find it impossible not to confront the killer, in an armed physical presence . It had to end and the killer was not going to be taken alive. Sometimes you have to do what's needed
Click to expand...

Killer was NOT taken alive. And it DOES appear they contained the shooter, who had more than enough rounds to have done substantial damage far beyond 21 fatalities.

If he goes into more than one room with just a spray-and-pray shooting approach, you could probably expect more than a dozen fatalities in multiple rooms.
 
Hopefully the facts come out soon, but DPS said they waited an hour to go in.

Who gives a **** about prisoners fighting? You can wait for all the backup you want.

I don’t need to be a prison guard to know you don’t wait to try and save little kids.
 
Did I misunderstand? I thought the shooter had already stopped the killing when police entered the building
 
mb227 said:
Tell me you have never been a solo officer on a cell block without telling me.

Just in my 35 years of time working around the prison system, there have been staged fights for the specific reason of harming an officer who was stupid enough to enter without back-up...some of those officers have died and people were sentenced to death for those actions.

If some of the reports of the Uvalde incident are to be believed, the killing did not continue en masse after officers were in the building. I've seen reports that the gunfire turned towards the officers in the building who were trying to get in position to breach the room.

What is inexcusable is the incessant demands that agencies know less than 48 hours later what went right and what went wrong. There is a reason DPS Incident Response reports run more than a hundred pages. I've seen more than one report prepared by the Rangers, and even drug buy-busts have been known to run 30-40 pages. They need time to review ALL of the audio that exists and ALL of the video that exists.
Click to expand...
I enjoy when you treat other people as snarky as me.
 
Amber heard says “what’s up? Hold my coke!
upload_2022-5-26_19-43-51.jpeg


confession time. I dropped a deuce in the pool of the Governor’s suite at the state lodge near my hometown circa 1987.
 
Great point, and really relevant. Kids should be held in jail cells, wear orange, join gangs, and pay for things with cigarettes. Parole hearings held throughout the year. Yep, “people” say “turn schools into prisons”, not “make schools safe”.
 
OUBubba said:
ulvade elementary schools There are three. I wonder which ones their family’s went to? I guess we will find out. Good guy with a gun and all.
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You, clearly, have never been to Uvalde, but you speak as if you know there is a difference in schools.
 
iatrogenic said:
Maybe defunding the police and abolishing border patrol would have saved the kids.
Click to expand...

I don't know about border patrol. But obviously the police are responsible and were active in making more kids get murdered.

Defunding the police isn't the bogeyman some make it. The bogeyman is to not have security or having no one taking responsible to make people safe when there are physical threats.

I would much rather have a private or citizen group providing security than government police. They are proving more and more to not serve or protect anyone but themselves.
 
So did they defund the police in ulvade? If not then shut up about it. Defund. I was posting from tee ball without my glasses.
 
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Monahorns said:
I don't know about border patrol. But obviously the police are responsible and were active in making more kids get murdered.

Defunding the police isn't the bogeyman some make it. The bogeyman is to not have security or having no one taking responsible to make people safe when there are physical threats.

I would much rather have a private or citizen group providing security than government police. They are proving more and more to not serve or protect anyone but themselves.
Click to expand...
There is some truth in that, but just “defunding” them without adding the caveat of, “and hire effectively trained private security/police” is the call of blithering idiots.
 
mb227 said:
Tell me you have never been a solo officer on a cell block without telling me.

Just in my 35 years of time working around the prison system, there have been staged fights for the specific reason of harming an officer who was stupid enough to enter without back-up...some of those officers have died and people were sentenced to death for those actions.

If some of the reports of the Uvalde incident are to be believed, the killing did not continue en masse after officers were in the building. I've seen reports that the gunfire turned towards the officers in the building who were trying to get in position to breach the room.

What is inexcusable is the incessant demands that agencies know less than 48 hours later what went right and what went wrong. There is a reason DPS Incident Response reports run more than a hundred pages. I've seen more than one report prepared by the Rangers, and even drug buy-busts have been known to run 30-40 pages. They need time to review ALL of the audio that exists and ALL of the video that exists.
Click to expand...

You're clearly not a zoomer.
 
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