Death toll in Texas elementary school; 18 children, 2 adults killed

[OUBubba]

Well Bubba, good for your friend’s Dad but for me, well I disagree. Although I do believe the old adage, as long as there are tests in school there will be prayer.

The issue is that we are a nation founded upon freedom of religion and a separation of church and state. You would surely disagree if you lived in Deaborn, MI and your children were asked to pray a Muslim prayer because the predominant religion in the school was Islam.

 

[nashhorn]

That’s the point Bubba. Yes if there were a requirement to a specific I would disagree but to disallow the function, like a moment of silence and you do your thing? It’s the edict that is wrong, not the principle.

 

[Mr. Deez]

You do have specs and I'm found wanting in your eyes. Very Pharisee-ish of you. I follow the red words in Matthew 9:13. That's what I did when I got the call when my wife was going in to have an emergency C-Section at 4:00AM. My "wants" were implied in the words.

No, I don't have specs. It's not up to me. If it was, I'd definitely save you (though I wouldn't save Barry Switzer so I'm not sure you'd want to be saved if it was up to me). However, it is up to somebody and the specs do exist, and I think the Bible sets forth those specs. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. I hope so, but at least your initial comments seem pretty hard to reconcile with the Bible. You elevate man to a far more exalted status than the Bible would suggest.

 

[Monahorns]

So my Christianity doesn't meet your specs? Good to know. I expect that from others here. Not you.

Didn't you admit to being deist? That isn't Christianity. It's Deism. You are either one or the other. Deists believe in a Creator and the existence of God, but the nature and activity of that God isn't the same as the Christian God.

It's very similar to the God of the Social Gospel promulgated in the early 20th century. The secular version of which is called Progressivism. One of the main proponents of which said that government was "God on earth."

 

[OUBubba]

Didn't you admit to being deist? That isn't Christianity. It's Deism. You are either one or the other. Deists believe in a Creator and the existence of God, but the nature and activity of that God isn't the same as the Christian God.

It's very similar to the God of the Social Gospel promulgated in the early 20th century. The secular version of which is called Progressivism. One of the main proponents of which said that government was "God on earth."

Methodist. The casserole branch.

 

[Monahorns]

Methodist. The casserole branch.

You said both. My parents are Methodist. My dad lifelong. His beliefs have nothing to do with Deism as far as I know. He would say prayer is very powerful and that God the Father works on the earth in our behalf. He also grew up with guns all around him and sees nothing good about restricting their ownership, for non-felons.

 

[Mr. Deez]

You said both. My parents are Methodist. My dad lifelong. His beliefs have nothing to do with Deism as far as I know. He would say prayer is very powerful and that God the Father works on the earth in our behalf. He also grew up with guns all around him and sees nothing good about restricting their ownership, for non-felons.

I'm surprised you're taking my side on something. lol

 

[OUBubba]

You said both. My parents are Methodist. My dad lifelong. His beliefs have nothing to do with Deism as far as I know. He would say prayer is very powerful and that God the Father works on the earth in our behalf. He also grew up with guns all around him and sees nothing good about restricting their ownership, for non-felons.

That's nice. I'm a different kind of Methodist than your dad. You'll find that there are a wide range of people who fall under the Methodist umbrella. We are typically a very inclusive group who follow the mantra of Open Hearts, Open Minds, Open Doors and we all have a unique and personal relationship with God. We've been involved in the church for 25+ years, doing any number of things. My oldest child is an elementary special ed teacher and her side hustle is youth director.

 

[OUBubba]

I'm not a "deist" per se. I don't see how a God can help one kid survive cancer and another not. Or a grandmother. You name it. I simply say the Lord's prayer a lot and let that be my communication - be it when I hear a good friend is on a vent (like last week) or when my 2.5 pound baby is coming into the world an hour away (like 19.5 years ago). Them's the instructions. I can tell you the last time I asked for football intervention. Alabama at Oklahoma Box Score, September 7, 2002 | College Football at Sports-Reference.com. Mid "prayer" I realized that I'd like to think an all knowing God had better things on his plate that day than Sooner football and I stopped that silly stuff.

 

[OUBubba]

Maybe I'm "left" Methodist. The only thing in that wing is Unitarian and that's a bridge too far.

 

[OUBubba]

Back on topic (so horninchicago won't get on me).

Better Call Saul Season 6, Episode 7 had a running time of 50 minutes. It took the cops 80 minutes. So, you could have almost got in the Summer of George (a classic) while they waited to go in.

How many bled out from AR-15 wounds?

 

[Monahorns]

Maybe I'm "left" Methodist. The only thing in that wing is Unitarian and that's a bridge too far.

So there is a line that you would draw regarding the question. So not everything goes. Categories have to have definitions and they both have limits.

I don't think it is as easy as saying you are "left" versus "right". Start with the gospel. If you believe in that you are within the category. If not, then you are not.

The gospel is the belief that Jesus paid for your sins on the cross, that he died and was buried, and last that he was raised back to life on the third day. Within it also includes the belief that Jesus is God, the Son within the Trinitarian Godhead. For that to be true Mary must have been a virgin when Jesus was conceived within her. You believe, that you are definitionally Christian. That has been the line drawn in the church for 2000 years.

The Deist God didn't send His Son to the Earth to pay for our sins. He wound up the clock and walked away for good.

 

[Chop]

It's the deriving of enjoyment or even pleasure from inflicting of torture and intense pain on defenseless others that equates to obvious depravity and a malevolent personality.


New line item on the job description of all school counselors:

- identify, counsel, and report to school administration, students that are likely to be a physical danger to themselves or others; work with school administration to report dangerous individuals to law enforcement as appropriate.

And change whatever privacy/privilege laws that may exist wrt school counselors to allow this to happen.

 

[bystander]

I always thought the basic definition of a deist was a person who believes in a creator that has abandoned us.

 

[Horn6721]

Chop
Great common sense idea. And the parents should be made aware too

 

[Mr. Deez]

Coach, you seem to base your deism (or deist tendency or whatever you want to call it) not on theology or scripture but on your inability to explain why terrible things happen if God's hand is on the world. It seems like that is the real issue.

Biblically, there's no basis for deism. The Bible is full of stories of divine intervention. Heck, God saved Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the burning furnace. He raised Lazarus from the dead. He whipped Paul's *** on the road to Damascus and then saved him countless times during his ministry. And of course, the ultimate divine intervention was the sending of Christ to the world to save humanity.

But you disregard all that because you can't answer the question of why bad things happen in a world in which God can and does assert power. Don't you think it's possible that there is an answer to that issue but that you simply don't know it (or don't know it yet)?

By the way, no judgment for wondering. Believe me, I had those same thoughts when my brother died of heart failure five years ago. God raised Lazarus from the dead, but he let my brother (who was a devout follower of Christ) die fully awake and in agony in a Dallas hospital bed while still a young man (only 47). It seemed unfair to me, but after much (yes) thought and prayer, I eventually understood the answer. It's hard to accept, but there is a reason.

 

[Horn6721]

why??
Uvalde police, school district no longer cooperating with Texas probe of shooting

 

[UTChE96]

The politics of this will be very muddy. The Democrats have already started their offensive on gun control. Biden just made a strategic mistake by coming out against hardening of schools. I think most parents are very much in favor of improving school security. Republicans should show the willingness to compromise as long as the solution includes significant investments in school security. They can't be seen as holding up a potential bill by Dems without an alternative.

 

[theiioftx]

Biden will try to EO banning of AR’s, AK’s and now apparently 9mm. It will get slammed by the SCOTUS.

There is simply no way American gun owners are turning in their weapons. Banning them will only drive up the value of the weapons and ammo.

 

[Monahorns]

Republicans should show the willingness to compromise

It's the only thing they are good at. It's called losing. The compromise always goes left...

 

[horninchicago]

Y’all are on the verge of solving this. Keep going.

 

[Horn2RunAgain]

why??
Uvalde police, school district no longer cooperating with Texas probe of shooting

If true, every major decision maker during this process in the PD, ISD needs to be voted out or resign in shame.

 

[OUBubba]

Coach, you seem to base your deism (or deist tendency or whatever you want to call it) not on theology or scripture but on your inability to explain why terrible things happen if God's hand is on the world. It seems like that is the real issue.

Biblically, there's no basis for deism. The Bible is full of stories of divine intervention. Heck, God saved Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the burning furnace. He raised Lazarus from the dead. He whipped Paul's *** on the road to Damascus and then saved him countless times during his ministry. And of course, the ultimate divine intervention was the sending of Christ to the world to save humanity.

But you disregard all that because you can't answer the question of why bad things happen in a world in which God can and does assert power. Don't you think it's possible that there is an answer to that issue but that you simply don't know it (or don't know it yet)?

By the way, no judgment for wondering. Believe me, I had those same thoughts when my brother died of heart failure five years ago. God raised Lazarus from the dead, but he let my brother (who was a devout follower of Christ) die fully awake and in agony in a Dallas hospital bed while still a young man (only 47). It seemed unfair to me, but after much (yes) thought and prayer, I eventually understood the answer. It's hard to accept, but there is a reason.

One of my favorite verses: “…help my unbelief”. I take heart that people who walked and talked with Jesus had doubts. Down deep, in places we don’t talk about at parties…there is some soft faith in all of us. I’m jealous of someone who “knows”. I had this conversation with a pastor (he grew up Assembly of God and migrated to Methodism). It was very enlightening. I would read Job during study and get irritated. It’s the dang devil went down to Georgia. That’s not My God. Another pastor (the first one younger than me) advised me to not get hung up those parts of the Bible, especially the OT. I did two full school years of Disciple Bible Study. Very enriching. Sorry about your brother.

 

[OUBubba]

Y’all are on the verge of solving this. Keep going.

Sniper.

 

[horninchicago]

Sniper.

Ironic who is a sponsor and who isn't it, ain't it?

Still...

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

Proper mental health funding. According to a Texas state senator Texas is 50th in behavioral health funding.

That's because until our recent influx of Californians and other assorted weirdos, we had very little need for behavioral health funding.

 

[OUBubba]

That's because until our recent influx of Californians and other assorted weirdos, we had very little need for behavioral health funding.

I beg to differ.

 

[Mr. Deez]

The politics of this will be very muddy. The Democrats have already started their offensive on gun control. Biden just made a strategic mistake by coming out against hardening of schools. I think most parents are very much in favor of improving school security. Republicans should show the willingness to compromise as long as the solution includes significant investments in school security. They can't be seen as holding up a potential bill by Dems without an alternative.

It depends on what "compromise" means. If it means raising the age to buy a gun, maybe. If it means broad bans, hell no.

 

[Mr. Deez]

One of my favorite verses: “…help my unbelief”. I take heart that people who walked and talked with Jesus had doubts. Down deep, in places we don’t talk about at parties…there is some soft faith in all of us. I’m jealous of someone who “knows”. I had this conversation with a pastor (he grew up Assembly of God and migrated to Methodism). It was very enlightening. I would read Job during study and get irritated. It’s the dang devil went down to Georgia. That’s not My God. Another pastor (the first one younger than me) advised me to not get hung up those parts of the Bible, especially the OT. I did two full school years of Disciple Bible Study. Very enriching. Sorry about your brother.

Coach, there's no reason to be jealous. I didn't come to know by being intelligent but by being submissive. It wasn't easy. First, I submitted to the fact that God's standards of justice and fairness are not necessarily mine and accepted that mine are inferior. I think that is where people struggle the most. It's very hard especially for an adult accept something like that.

Think about the Lord's Prayer that you say. Does it ask that nothing bad happens (as we see it)? No, it asks that God's will be done. Resignation to that will is inherent to the prayer.

Second, I looked at things that happen to us in God's context rather than my own. To us, this life is everything, because we're here in the moment. God's context is eternal, so to him, this life is a vapor - here one minute, gone the next and inconsequential compared to eternity. It matters to him, because it's our chance to accept Christ and serve his will, but whether we live 30 years or 90 years is pretty insignificant to him. My brother suffered terribly, but he's now spending eternity praising God with his grandparents and other loved ones who went before. As horrific as his earthly suffering was, it pales massively compared to his current and eternal joy.

Finally, I looked at God's example and realized that he practices what he preaches and doesn't resent our struggle with accepting his will even if he expects us to ultimately do so. You cite the "help my unbelief" passage, and it's noteworthy. However, I think it's also important to remember Jesus's example of one suffering horrifically unjustly. That was the ultimate act of something bad happening to a good person in furtherance of God's will, and like us, he struggled to accept it in the Garden of Gethsemane. But he ultimately did, and if he can, so should we.

 

[guy4321]

why??
Uvalde police, school district no longer cooperating with Texas probe of shooting

They didn't like being told they made the wrong decision. Also, interesting... Police decided the unnamed teacher did shut the propped door after she saw the car crash and heard a person yell "He's got a gun." But the door didn't lock.

Texas police say Uvalde teacher closed door before attack but it didn’t lock