Death toll in Texas elementary school; 18 children, 2 adults killed
- Thread starter BevoJoe
- Start date
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
I disagree about access to mental health. More than a decade ago I worked up a pilot project on starting up mental health facilities near VA facilities because there was a significant backlog on diagnosing vets and a reticence to create more diagnostic access as more diagnoses would lead to more disability. This was under W. We were at 20/day on suicides. It grew to 22/day. It has gone back down.
[Mark the date and time here]A good thing Trump did was to move the VA health care system further along than anyone had previously. While his efforts may have been somewhat ham-fisted when it came to the nuts and bolts, he did something.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
Because it's a crappy red herring and you know it. Are Trump's sexual assault problems due to a lack of mental health? Are Jr's cocaine eyes? I would say everyone in your/my red herring scenarios have access to mental health if they want it. Some of these crazy people with guns may not. We certainly have a shortage of mental health facilities in my region and my governor didn't just retrofit millions of dollars from mental health funding to border issues and then complain about mental health funding.
Somebody named Bubba didn’t read the article he linked simply because the title of the article served his false narrative.
There is much evil in this world.
Police fatally shoot Texas fugitive after family of 5 killed
He managed to get himself killed instead of being burned alive as he deserved. I wonder if that family had any weapons.
Police fatally shoot Texas fugitive after family of 5 killed
He managed to get himself killed instead of being burned alive as he deserved. I wonder if that family had any weapons.
Given his prior work with the cartel, I suspect he was in the house before they realized it. I suspect they were just the unfortunate occupants of a house with a vehicle he wanted to steal to get back to the border...
Since Day One, my guess was that he was headed south, not only because that is where his convictions were from, but also because of the fact that we cannot stop people from entering illegally, so anyone, including an escaped convict, knows they were not going to stop him from LEAVING illegally.
The sole silver lining here is that we won't be wasting money to house him on death row for the next few decades while frivolous appeals were being filed. And now the Special Prosecutor does not have to worry about stacking another meaningless life sentence for the escape charge...dude was ALREADY serving stacked life sentences (something the media typically failed to address). STACKED!
They did.
"escapee, 46-year-old Gonzalo Lopez, who stole guns, clothes and a truck from the ranch before police shot him dead more than 200 miles away."
How Texas boys’ dream trip ended in family massacre at hands of fugitive
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
My wife and i (happened to be headed that way) drove by that property today, on hwy 7. Tons of flowers and balloons on the gate of The property. Amazingly close to i45. Was surprised by that, thought he'd be more careful than to get close to the interstate
But the property is secluded for sure. Nice long pier / deck to the large pond visible from the road
The whole thing makes me sick. One of the boys looks like my daughters boyfriend.
I wasn't surprised that it happened close to the interstate...if they don't have transport already arranged, the last thing they want to do is be in the middle of nowhere having to walk through the brush. From the interstate, it becomes easier to catch a truck or, alternately, just jack someone at Woody's or other station...after all, far too many people STILL leave their keys in the ignition when filling up and are startlingly ignorant of their surroundings.
AND, since this guy had been in for a while, he had made that trip on other chains heading to Huntsville, so he knew the route. That has been a common with other escapes from vehicles.
Years ago, the Huntsville-area escapes from the units all went to the LP sawdust pile...not paying attention to the way the creosote and ants in there would eat them alive. The truck stop next to DPS was surprisingly never on their list of places to try and hop on the back of the semi between the cab and trailer...but then again, they didn't get to prison for intelligence.
This is why I support the death penalty. He should have been executed already.
I know. It's so sick.
I understand the executing an innocent person argument but it slays me when they argue that it's not a deterrent. Yes, it is. It would have deterred this murder. I just can't believe how low scum can go. To murder this family and then go out with a bullet; probably with a smile on his face. That's why I hope to God there is a hell. I just wish we could buy tickets to watch him suffer.
Yeah, that's harsh and that's how I feel.
Point of order...he had stacked life sentences. He did not have a death sentence that was imposed by a jury or court of competent jurisdiction.
But he should have. I guess it was life sentences because it was "only" one murder in 2005?
Conduct in multiple counties...sadly, even in the Valley, we have seen a reluctance by Texas prosecutors to use the death penalty in doing their job. If they don't put it on the table, or alternately, it gets taken off as a condition of a plea, the jury never gets to vote to put the needle in the arm...
Consideration should be given for folks which are viewed to be likely highly violent, whether in prison or society. This guy had all the markings of being extremely violent.
I don't disagree. Elections have consequences, and the lack of DP usage comes from the election of hug-a-thug DA's and judges...
Well thank God we didn't inconvenience the little sucker. Seriously....a couple of days wait and better background checks might have turned up something. Some criminals are brilliant, but most are below average intelligence and education and at the bottom of the charts on impulse control.
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Thats fair. As long as we can agree that for criminals, gun control laws are exactly just that - an inconvenience. I would prefer to focus on effective solutions.
There is no simple answer. The school with its resource officers and locks is not an especially soft target..."mental health" is pretty much lip service. ..cause if you start helping dangerously crazy people .. you'll spend a lot of money. A lot of those people are not currently getting much official attention from anybody except street cops and jailers.
Agree that there is no simple solution. I do think the first step is to better understand why these mass shootings are occurring with greater frequency. Guns have always been around so what else has changed. I have read that childhood trauma such as loss of a loved one or extreme bullying is almost always involved.
One idea that has not been discussed much is school choice. If a child does not fit into his current school whether due to bullying or other social factors, let parents choose to send them somewhere more suitable. At a minimum, it can let parents separate their children from certain bad actors in public schools that seem to never get expelled.
Applicable and appropriate in decent sized urban areas. But consider this: had such a school choice program been in place, do you think there is any real choice in small isolated places like Uvalde?
Probably not yet because there is not enough demand. But if more folks had the ability to pay for a private school then who knows what would happen.
Even if it doesn't solve every school shooting, is it a step in the right direction for at least the larger urban areas? I would think so.
Oh, I agree. It is a step in the right direction.
Perhaps, but gun control is also pretty much lip service, because our enforcement of gun laws is pretty weak and arbitrary.
And let's keep in mind that these school shootings are hideous events, but in the context of our broader violent crime problem, they're miniscule. School choice would be a significant help in big cities, where the bulk of our violent crime problem exists.
While I agree it's one variable, I still think a much great variable is parenting. And parenting just seems to get worse and worse. Correlation? Solution?
I have no 100% solution for stopping every school/mass shooting, but in my opinion, it is not just a single variable, but a multiple variable situation.
Mental health. Buying a gun is too easy for young men. The waiting period is a joke. The background checks are a joke. Parenting is lax. Social media. Media amplification of shooting events. Stop selling guns? That genie is out of the bottle.
There are an estimated million guns more than people here in the US. I don't think there is any way selling guns illegally can be stopped. Or legally.
And, I think most importantly, we need some type of red flag law that picks up "chatter" on social media. I consider anyone who is a mass shooter a terrorist, and if we can have people keeping track of terrorist chatter, I don't understand why we can't keep track of the chatter of those bragging about preparing to shoot up someplace.
To dovetail with social media chatter, perhaps offer rewards to people who report legitimate warning signs to authorities? In almost every instance I can recall, these shooters had to brag to someone, somewhere about what they intended to do. They can't help but brag. They are true narcissists who are mentally wrong in the head. There have been shootings since the Tower sniper, but they really picked up after Columbine. I thing that the media attention holds some responsibility in this.
Several shootings have been stopped because someone told police. Might we make these people heroes if they want the attention?
The other missing piece? The whole us v them mentality. It can't be about Dems or Repubs, it is time to try and work together on this issue. This is not about "sides", it's about trying to prevent some of the inevitable shootings that will occur. I know they will never stop. There is a new type of cruelty in our society.
I don't know why. I blame much of it on social media. Younger kids don't have the tools to talk to people, eye to eye any more. Loners can sit in a room and vent and dream of terrible things with other loners.
I am on the board of an animal rescue organization, and I can't believe some of the horrific and utter cruelty done to animals these days. It goes beyond the pale. I'll spare the details, but it wasn't like this several years ago. It has made me hate being on the board as I hate hearing the stories, but I try to make a difference. People are losing any type of moral compass or compassion in many cases.
Frankly, I don't understand why people need automatic, high powered guns. I have a pistol, kept in my bedside table. The only time I ever carried was when I had to travel in the Valley, and as most of you know, there are long stretches of highway with no gas, etc. for miles and several prisons. I have a friend who collects them, and loves going to the shooting range with his sons, so, I can't really judge.
I wrote up a statement on Facebook about my views, and to no surprise, got push back from liberals. You can't just focus on one variable--guns. Yet, that is what they do. And republicans usually focus on one variable, mental illness.
My post wasn't as eloquently stated, but yesterday UT's own Matthew McConaughey (Uvalde raised) stood in the briefing room of the White House and gave what I felt was a great statement/speech about his ideas.
If you didn't hear him live, you should try. He wasn't making some political gambit. I have read his book, and while he can be a bit "woo woo" he is much smarter than I realized.
He was truly emotional, and very sincere. Something no one in the last several White Houses have been able to do.
This is a link to his speech. The first part is emotional, personal stories he observed when he visited. If you want to skip to the solution part, it's in the middle. As a political mutt who leans conservative, I have no issue with any of his suggestions. And, I happen to agree with him that most of America meets in the middle regarding gun control, at least I hope so. It can't be either/ or.
Matthew McConaughey full speech: Read text of his words at White House
Mental health. Buying a gun is too easy for young men. The waiting period is a joke. The background checks are a joke. Parenting is lax. Social media. Media amplification of shooting events. Stop selling guns? That genie is out of the bottle.
There are an estimated million guns more than people here in the US. I don't think there is any way selling guns illegally can be stopped. Or legally.
And, I think most importantly, we need some type of red flag law that picks up "chatter" on social media. I consider anyone who is a mass shooter a terrorist, and if we can have people keeping track of terrorist chatter, I don't understand why we can't keep track of the chatter of those bragging about preparing to shoot up someplace.
To dovetail with social media chatter, perhaps offer rewards to people who report legitimate warning signs to authorities? In almost every instance I can recall, these shooters had to brag to someone, somewhere about what they intended to do. They can't help but brag. They are true narcissists who are mentally wrong in the head. There have been shootings since the Tower sniper, but they really picked up after Columbine. I thing that the media attention holds some responsibility in this.
Several shootings have been stopped because someone told police. Might we make these people heroes if they want the attention?
The other missing piece? The whole us v them mentality. It can't be about Dems or Repubs, it is time to try and work together on this issue. This is not about "sides", it's about trying to prevent some of the inevitable shootings that will occur. I know they will never stop. There is a new type of cruelty in our society.
I don't know why. I blame much of it on social media. Younger kids don't have the tools to talk to people, eye to eye any more. Loners can sit in a room and vent and dream of terrible things with other loners.
I am on the board of an animal rescue organization, and I can't believe some of the horrific and utter cruelty done to animals these days. It goes beyond the pale. I'll spare the details, but it wasn't like this several years ago. It has made me hate being on the board as I hate hearing the stories, but I try to make a difference. People are losing any type of moral compass or compassion in many cases.
Frankly, I don't understand why people need automatic, high powered guns. I have a pistol, kept in my bedside table. The only time I ever carried was when I had to travel in the Valley, and as most of you know, there are long stretches of highway with no gas, etc. for miles and several prisons. I have a friend who collects them, and loves going to the shooting range with his sons, so, I can't really judge.
I wrote up a statement on Facebook about my views, and to no surprise, got push back from liberals. You can't just focus on one variable--guns. Yet, that is what they do. And republicans usually focus on one variable, mental illness.
My post wasn't as eloquently stated, but yesterday UT's own Matthew McConaughey (Uvalde raised) stood in the briefing room of the White House and gave what I felt was a great statement/speech about his ideas.
If you didn't hear him live, you should try. He wasn't making some political gambit. I have read his book, and while he can be a bit "woo woo" he is much smarter than I realized.
He was truly emotional, and very sincere. Something no one in the last several White Houses have been able to do.
This is a link to his speech. The first part is emotional, personal stories he observed when he visited. If you want to skip to the solution part, it's in the middle. As a political mutt who leans conservative, I have no issue with any of his suggestions. And, I happen to agree with him that most of America meets in the middle regarding gun control, at least I hope so. It can't be either/ or.
Matthew McConaughey full speech: Read text of his words at White House
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