Death toll in Texas elementary school; 18 children, 2 adults killed

I don’t think the human brain is fully developed until 24. Unfortunately we ask 18 year olds to serve in the military, so for me that is old enough for anything in my view.

That ******* was going to hurt people regardless of his age. Notice no mention of his dad and his mother is obviously absent. This is a parenting and mental health issue not his age or gun laws.
 
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OUBubba said:
We have 300% more school shootings than the other 35 advanced countries combined since 1998.
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Tell me you don't really understand statistics without telling us.

After all, one shooting that goes to two the next year is a 100% increase. If we had four and others had one, that is 300% more. The MSM feeds the sheep big numbers because they are designed to be frightening...and they know the masses won't bother looking at the real math.
 
Garmel said:
Yet, we didn't have school shootings even when full automatic weapons were legal, which they aren't anymore. What does that tell you?
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It tells us that it was an inevitable outcome when the left insists that words are violence and that 'violence,' perceived or otherwise, must be met with force...and since there tends to be a lack of parenting (and often a missing father figure to begin with), the whiners who claim they were 'bullied' respond just like life was a video game.
 
Ah heck they tell kids that they do not know if they are a boy or a girl. What’s confusing about that? Confusion in tiny minds produces strange behavior for a very long time. So I know, let’s kill off the nuclear family, that’ll fix it!
 
OUBubba said:
We have 300% more school shootings than the other 35 advanced countries combined since 1998.
Click to expand...

All that confirms is that the problem is worse in the am US than it is in those countries. It doesn't establish the cause. There was also a time when gun laws were more lax and guns more common in school but far fewer shootings.
 
Reports are saying that a teacher had propped open, or simply left open, one of the locked outside doors to the school. That’s where Ramos entered the school. Could he have shot his way in anyway? Maybe, but perhaps it would’ve turned out somewhat differently were it not for the open door.

New reports contradict the older reports and claim the teacher did shut the door, but the door somehow failed to lock...

An awful failure in any event...
 
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I'm down with more family-oriented solutions. Paid family leave. Free childcare or credits for it. Cheap medical care. Cheap mental health care. Cheap LTC for seniors. Laws restricting access to weapons for family members. Red flag laws regarding domestic violence. All of that stuff would both help families, which in turn, could potentially curb shootings.

I think the biggest factor in mass shooters seems to be the violence towards women aspect. We don't know why the Vegas shooter did what he did, but for many of the other recent ones (Dayton and El Paso come to mind), they had online activity in the incel community, where idiots on 4chan basically rally around anyone who has the balls to go through with a shooting. The US has only 8% more single-parent families than the UK, so I don't think it's so much a "nuclear family" thing than it is a "online communities got a hold of him" thing.
 
Lots of blame to go around, none of which is on the gun. The gun didn't walk itself to the school. The gun didn't load itself. The gun didn't fire itself.

AK47? with an hour to fire, reload, fire again, he could have done the same thing with a .22 Ruger, an S&W .357, a Colt ,320.

When God invents a gun with a brain and mobility, I'll listen to theories on "gun control". For now, all it is about is taking control of our liberties

To observe how well gun control works, just travel into Mexico, where possession of a bullet will get you 5-10 years. Of course, the leftist media and liberals don't understand the significance or message sent in Cuernavaca. In the meantime, hundreds of thousands are buried in mass graves.
 
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I saw more info on Salvador Ramos. He was a loner and was bullied at school. One nickname he had at school was “school shooter.” He had worked at Wendy’s where his co workers thought he was ok but really quiet. He tortured and killed cats, shot people with a BB gun, and egged some houses. He left home after an argument with his Mom over her cuttting the Wi-Fi service. He went to live with his Grandmother. He had dropped out of high school. He argued with his Grandmother over dropping out of school. He later shot his Grandmother before stealing her pickup truck and crashing it near the school. He was outside the school a fairly long time, walking around with his rifle and shooting at some people outside a funeral home nearby who had come outside after they heard the pickup truck crash.

The young woman in California he communicated with shortly before the crime(s) could not be rightfully called his online girlfriend or anything like that. She didn’t know why he was sending her cryptic and weird messages. It does not appear she knew what he was going to do and failed to report it.

Psychology majors I’ve known say that torturing cats or dogs is one of the red flags that the kid is going to be a violent psychopath. That goes beyond the normal ‘boys behaving badly’ and juvenile delinquency.
 
Horns11 said:
I'm down with more family-oriented solutions. Paid family leave. Free childcare or credits for it. Cheap medical care. Cheap mental health care. Cheap LTC for seniors. Laws restricting access to weapons for family members. Red flag laws regarding domestic violence. All of that stuff would both help families, which in turn, could potentially curb shootings.
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I don't mind red flag laws regarding domestic violence. If you're beating your wife or kids, you've shown a strong propensity to use a gun for evil. No problem with them being taken away.

A law restricting access to guns for family members would be about as enforceable as the sodomy laws were or laws against growing magic mushrooms in your closet. For the most part, you're not going to be able to stop what people do in their own homes.

As for the laundry list of free money, this presumes that a lack of money is what makes families weak. It's not. If it was, then Hollywood would have some of the most stable families in the world. Furthermore, school shootings would have been rampant in the old days when guns were even easier for children to get and bring to school and when welfare programs were less available.

Men don't abandon their children because of a lack of money. Otherwise, rich men wouldn't do it, and poor men always would. They abandon them because of much deeper problems. It's a heart issue, not a money issue (though the heart issue often also causes a lack of money). Furthermore, our culture doesn't judge abandoning your kids very harshly, so there's little downside in doing it. We might say it's it's generally bad, but on an individual level, we shrug it off. A guy in a big city will get a lot more **** thrown his way if he publicly says women don't have penises then if he abandons his kids.

Horns11 said:
I think the biggest factor in mass shooters seems to be the violence towards women aspect. We don't know why the Vegas shooter did what he did, but for many of the other recent ones (Dayton and El Paso come to mind), they had online activity in the incel community, where idiots on 4chan basically rally around anyone who has the balls to go through with a shooting. The US has only 8% more single-parent families than the UK, so I don't think it's so much a "nuclear family" thing than it is a "online communities got a hold of him" thing.
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Agree with your initial premise on the violence against women, but I'd take it more broadly to violence toward the weak. Even if they're not violent to women, they might be violent to children or animals, as Ramos was. They sorta enjoy dominating someone or something living.

The UK comparison warrants some discussion. They have a lot of single parent families (even if fewer than in the US), but the culture here is different. There is a lot more involvement especially by men in clubs and civic organizations.

It's also easier for a guy to build a social circle here. Why? He has a local pub. Seems like I'm making a joke, but I'm not. It's not like a noisy bar in the states that you have to drive 20 minutes to. It's quiet, laid-back, and walking distance from your home. You go in, and within a few minutes people walk up to you and talk to you. Do that long enough, and people get to know you. After awhile, you develop a sense of community, and I think that makes a big difference. It's no substitute for a nuclear family, but I think it definitely helps a lot. You're far less likely to be a loner.

So the lesson from the UK shouldn't be to ban guns. After all, they didn't have a bunch of mass shootings before they banned guns. The lesson is build local pubs in the US.
 
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Mr D
There is a ton of important points in your post. Violence against weak and free money isnt the answer may be the most salient.

So I am isolating only the last sentence for a :beertoast::lmao:
 
mb227 said:
Tell me you don't really understand statistics without telling us.

After all, one shooting that goes to two the next year is a 100% increase. If we had four and others had one, that is 300% more. The MSM feeds the sheep big numbers because they are designed to be frightening...and they know the masses won't bother looking at the real math.
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Lord you're condescending when things don't sync up with your world view. 35 other countries COMBINED had 3 times fewer school shootings than we have had in 24 years. "Statistics" that ish however you see fit.
 
Bubba
How many were shot Chicago this week end? Since first of year?
Chicago has some of the most restrictive gun laws.
How many YEARS has this gone on in Chicago?
Philadelphia? Baltimore? Etc
The point is not to take away from the tragedies of Uvlade or any senseles murder.
The point is laws mean nothing to bad guys
 
Horn6721 said:
Bubba
How many were shot Chicago this week end? Since first of year?
Chicago has some of the most restrictive gun laws.
How many YEARS has this gone on in Chicago?
Philadelphia? Baltimore? Etc
The point is not to take away from the tragedies of Uvlade or any senseles murder.
The point is laws mean nothing to bad guys
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Well, Indiana has significantly less stringent gun laws. South Chicago is closer to Indiana than Ft. Worth is to Dallas. I think we should let all of the folks out of jail for weed and start stacking people in there for illegal gun sales and possession. Majority of Guns Used in Chicago Crimes Come From Outside Illinois: Report – NBC Chicago
 
Horn6721 said:
Bubba
How does where the guns come from have relevance on bad guys ignoring the existing gun laws?
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They're easy to get. That's like saying when we make a lot of meth in Eastern Oklahoma and it brings down the cost in Dallas. Supply/Demand. If you make them harder you make them more expensive.
 
We have not made gun laws more stringent around these kinds of things since Bill Clinton. It's now an epidemic and we're not going to change anything now. It's the definition of insanity. Thoughts and prayers are literally killing it.
 
What would conservatives be willing to agree to in terms of more stringent laws that are not currently on the books right now?

The problem is this: if the emotional impact of these things get real legs (and it feels like it now) then you stand the chance of losing the war which means the AOC's and Beto's of the world become our true leadership. We have to give somewhere.
 
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