Urban Meyer put on paid leave

Vol Horn 4 Life said:
Everything I heard yesterday the AD knew so what else was Urban to do? You just can't fire someone based on accusations. What is so hard about that to understand?
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Are you talking about whether or not Urban should have fired Smith back in 2015? It seems there was a history and that Urban knew all about it. At the same time, if Urban reported it then he complied with the contract. Not firing Smith goes in another category: Being an enabler (and subsequently lying about it to the media). I don't know why the administration didn't ask Urban to fire him. Maybe they did which appears to be the same as telling Longshanks you are skilled in the art of war and ending up thrown from the tower.
 
Not firing Smith goes in anothercategory: Being an enabler
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Firing or not firing Smith would not enable or prevent him from hitting or abusing his wife away from work or enable or prevent his wife from pressing charges. Employment is irrelevant to that.
 
Htown77 said:
but the minute she actually took action with a court, Meyer did fire his employee.
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Really? Didn't she file on him in 2009 and he was arrested?

zuckercanyon said:
it's not siding with a camp, it's making people stand up for themselves, especially someone that seems capable of using a phone and their words. Urban Meyer didn't beat her, her idiot husband did. Call the cops, press charges, don't hang up, quit being an idiot as well.
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Again, you obviously have never been involved in or really researched the subject of spousal abuse.

It’s not as simple or as black and white as you would like to make it sound.

You might as well ask an alcoholic, “Why don’t you just quit drinking?”.

If it was that simple there wouldn’t be AA meetings happening several times a day across the entire planet.


The victims are being abused by someone they love or loved and thought they were loved by.

They made vows with this person and had children with them.

They are sure this is a temporary situation and their spouse will change.

Friends and family may urge them to give the guy another chance.

They may report it and then emotions calm, the spouse apologizes, and the victim recants.

Psychologically, they can become oddly comfortable in their abuse.

At least they know what to expect. Fear of the unknown and, yes, economic worries can keep them in the relationship.

The thought of suddenly being a single parent can be overwhelming.


And how many stories do we hear on the news of women filing charges, getting restraining orders and ending up dead?


It’s a man’s world and has been forever.

Easy for you to say she should just “use her words” or just get out.

I think walking a mile in her shoes would serve you well.
 
While I am not an expert in domestic abuse cases, after 65 years on this earth, some things have become self-evident.

For anyone to assert that domestic abuse did not occur in this case is an extraordinary stretch. Next, whether or not Courtney Smith filed charges does not exonerate what was “almost certainly” abusive behavior. I “might” question a single incident. I don’t question a pattern, and to argue that there wasn’t a pattern of abuse in this case defies logic.

So, judging the wife and the validity of her claims because of what she did or did not do with respect to reporting incidents and filing charges, is flawed reasoning in my opinion. Many of us know women who stayed in an abusive relationship for too long for a variety of reasons. Some of us have had family members stay in relationships after repeated incidents. And how often do we read about the separated perpetrator killing his estranged wife? It’s a horrible problem in this and many other societies.

My Point: I am cutting Courtney Smith a break. It’s not her fault, and whether or not she took the proper steps to address the problem seems not to be relevant with respect to how Urban Mayer handled — or failed to handle — the situation.
 
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Htown77 said:
Firing or not firing Smith would not enable or prevent him from hitting or abusing his wife away from work or enable or prevent his wife from pressing charges. Employment is irrelevant to that.
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I'm no expert but it appears to me that Zach's entire being revolves around being a coach. Allowing him to remain enables that being to exist.
 
This is ridiculous.

Employers are not responsible for employees actions away from work. I understand if an employee is charged, indicted and convicted, putting the company in a bad light with the public, then he could be terminated. Until he is found guiltily, he is presumed innocent. There is no reason for employers to be involved in the personal lives of their employees. We have a justice system, if a crime is committed use it.
Criminal Title 9, University, and employee justice systems are a load of baloney.
Individuals are responsible for their actions.
 
I understand some of you believe Zach, though.
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Cut this horse**** right now. I do not know if he is guilty. I do not know if he is innocent. You do not know either. Unless he confessed to Urban Meyer, Urban does not know either.

Here is the problem. None of us were there. We do not know. Urban was not there either.

I am a lawyer and I have seen lying men abuser monsters, and I have seen lying women falsely claim abuse. I have seen both men and women can both lie and be terrible people.

We have an imperfect justice system that tries to discern truth. It is certainly imperfect, used to be really bad on domestic abuse and still needs to improve in that area. It is still a better system than you, me or an employer, not equipped to handle these situations, declaring someone guilty and demanding Ku Klux Klan style justice.

My Point: I am cutting Courtney Smith a break. It’s not her fault, and whether or not she took the proper steps to address the problem seems not to be relevant with respect to how Urban Mayer handled — or failed to handle — the situation.
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Her actions are 100% relevant to how Urban Meyer handled the situation. If she does not file charges and his employee claims it is all bs, how the hell is Urban Meyer supposed to know there is a problem? Her not filing charges supports the employee's claim that there is nothing to see here. If he hit her, she is not responsible for him doing that. However, if she does not file charges, then she is responsible for nothing happening to happen. If someone denies something, and the victim refuses to press charges, no reasonable person or employer can act on that. So yes, she, and she alone, bears the responsibility of no police action after that fact.

Really? Didn't she file on him in 2009 and he was arrested?
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She filed reports. She admits she contacted men and women in law enforcement who absolutely were in the position to help her. They encouraged her to press charges by her own admission. She then made the choice not to do so. When she made that choice, there was not anything for anyone else to do, much less her husband's employer.
 
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I think walking a mile in her shoes would serve you well.
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You could walk in both the shoes of an abused woman and man with false claims against him and realize "hey, maybe detectives and authorities should get to the bottom of this individual case and attempt to discern the truth?"

I'm no expert but it appears to me that Zach's entire being revolves around being a coach. Allowing him to remain enables that being to exist.
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Alternatively, he could be innocent and feels bad that a good employer is being unfairly dragged down by his own personal life.

Alternatively, he could be a guilty monster, and feel bad that a good employer is being unfairly dragged by his own monstrousness actions.

I do not know. You do not know. I do know that if Meyer had fired him in 2015 over second hand accusations he got from his wife and Zach Smith is a monster, then Meyer would be pissing off a monster at his wife and giving him a lot of free time to act on that anger. I am not sure what that solves.

For anyone to assert that domestic abuse did not occur in this case is an extraordinary stretch.
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For anyone to assert that domestic abuse did or did not occur in this case is a stretch.

I don’t question a pattern, and to argue that there wasn’t a pattern of abuse in this case defies logic.
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We have her word for that and two police reports six years apart. Maybe, maybe not. I would like to see real investigators get to the bottom of it. She should really give them an opportunity to do so. What is stopping her now?

So, judging the wife and the validity of her claims because of what she did or did not do with respect to reporting incidents and filing charges, is flawed reasoning in my opinion. Many of us know women who stayed in an abusive relationship for too long for a variety of reasons. Some of us have had family members stay in relationships after repeated incidents.
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Actually, it does matter. It is evidence that supports Zach Smith's claims. Again, as a lawyer, I have known both women terribly abused by demented monsters and angry, vengeful women that have gone to great lengths to tell extraordinary lies. I have seen both lying, monstrous men and women. So far, she had chosen not to make her case before the best fact finders available. Running to the media and not the police does not look good.

If she sues Ohio State and Urban and does not press police charges, that really will not look good.
 
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People who hit their spouses should not be allowed to work for a living
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People who hit their spouses, once proven guilty, should face the penalties we have set through democratic action. I think there should be prison time. Being a convicted criminal is generally not good for future employment.

Maybe she should press charges and make sure her alleged abuser gets punished?
 
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Some people do believe Zach, from what I've read on Twitter and such.
Which is fine with, I don't care. No need to take it personally.

I've said more than once I don't know if Urban should be fired or not.
But yea, I believe Zach and Urban are lying. But I understand others don't.
 
But yea, I believe Zach and Urban are lying. But I understand others don't.
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I do believe they have told lies. Urban has admitted as such. I am just not sure yet what the lies show.

As pointed out, if she was being abused, she may have made a terrible choice to not press charges out of fear. Meyer, may not have done anything wrong, and made terrible choice to lie at a press conference out of fear of the sensationalist media. Or Meyer could have had two staff members telling her to keep quiet in 2009, which would absolutely be damning, and that is why he lied. It is not yet known. I have seen innocent people (very, very stupidly) lie when they thought that was the easier way out and get themselves into trouble. If that is the case with Meyer (and I am not saying it is, I do not know), I really hope he has learned that was not the right call. @bystander has said throughout the thread what better answers would have been.
 
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huisache said:
People who hit their spouses should not be allowed to work for a living
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When someone hits their spouse, are they then supposed to wander the earth like Kwai Chang Caine in Kung Fu? Oops, hit the spouse, no job for you......there's people in prison for involuntary manslaughter, and the premise in our judicial system is that once they've served their time they can come back to society having served their sentence. They can get jobs....But hit somebody? Nope, sit down....
 
LonghornCatholic said:
Fair question.

Maybe she got fed up and decided to "assault" him back. But I admit I'm assuming she's being honest. I understand some of you believe Zach, though.
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LC, I think to be fair, those of us who are questioning this whole affair are not on "Zach's side", we're on the side of innocent until proven guilty in a court of law (lesser point), but also are in favor of "your marital problems are not the problems of somebody that your abuser husband works for, it's YOUR problem, it's been YOUR problem, YOU had a chance to do something over several years, YOU jacked it up, now YOU want to blame everyone associated with your husband (main point). Those on this board that want to blame Urban Meyer for the abuse are the same people that want to give the abused free reign to blame everyone but herself for her inaction.
 
I am already sick of this story. Fire him. Retain him. Won’t change my life one bit either way. Just do something so we can move on and talk football again
 
Some in this discussion are seeming to allude to “due process” and the fact that we don’t actually “know the facts.” While that may well be true, this issue (the future of Urban Meyer) and whether or not Smith abused his wife will almost certainly not be determined in a court of law. It will be determined in the context of Title IV, and the court of public opinion. While that may not be fair, someone making $6,000,000/year — with a massive contract, operating in an hypersensitive environment known by and understood to all but those who are comatose, is expected to understand the rules.

Even if the issue were to go to trial, a complete hypothetical, I would be skeptical of the outcome if the venue was anywhere near Columbus, Ohio. And even if not, one has to wonder about the legitimacy of some of the documents presented. I say that because IMHO, the cover up has been underway for some time. Yes, I am cynical.

Who on this string believes that Smith is completely innocent? Perhaps some do. I don’t. Yes, perhaps we shouldn’t speculate, but frankly, how can we not? The Ohio State spin machine is already in overdrive.

Who on this string believes that Courtny Smith has fabricated her entire story? Perhaps none, given the whole Earl Bruce episode.

To judge this whole mess in the context of our legal system and to expect application of due process would seem like wishful thinking and may suggest a lack of understanding of the factors that will ultimately decide this case and Meyer’s fate. Perhaps that is unfair, and unreasonable. But frankly, it is what it is.
 
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Zach was supposedly fired for violating the terms of a protective order. Was the decision to terminate him made in a vacuum or the weight of what Gene Smith and Urban knew to be true; that Zach Smith was and had been an abuser of his wife regardless of the legal status of each and every incident? Was the restraining order the first bit of independent proof (outside Courtney's accusations) and they responded because the legal system gave them the out they needed? If so then it seems the innocent until proven guilty factor was in play all along and they waited until the law stepped in. But if we want to be really technical we can still say that he is innocent because he has not been convicted of anything.

I don't think Ohio State can wait for that. The employer said, "Enough."

As for Urban, it seems he covered it up publicly to the point of the violation of the protective order and for whatever reason kept him on the staff. That is the big mystery to me. Were they trying to "rehabilitate" Zach? Was he really that great of a coach (and recruiter; wasn't he the lead recruiter for Garrett Wilson?)? Should we be cynical and assume Meyer is that ruthless and couldn't care less whose wife gets beaten as long as the team wins?

I mentioned that Meyer enabled a potential wife-beater. I think HT77 mentioned that firing him might have triggered a tragedy. I get that but at the same time that is always a possibility when confronting a bully, an abuser or a psycho. It is what it is and it stinks that we have to worry about provoking a nightmare. I think that is what enabling is all about; hoping that things will calm down and not wanting it to get worse if you try to leave the situation. I can't judge.

But I do believe Meyer knew of all the accusations. I think he had enough information to rid himself of Zach. Now the university is in the middle of some seriously bad PR. If Meyer is to blame for this then he should pay the price on some level. Possibly the same with Gene Smith. I'm softening on the idea of firing Meyer. Maybe a suspension at some point but ONLY for the the lie at the press conference IF Meyer had informed Smith (or his agent) each per the contract. But I think Meyer's press release yesterday pretty much point the finger upstairs. It was about protecting himself and I have a feeling the administration is not happy about it. In other words, "It's on." But do you fire a great coach and fight over $38 million just because your feelings were hurt?

Man, this is convoluted. I had to re-read my sentences to make sure I was making sense! I'm sure someone will be more than happy to straighten me out if I didn't.
 
Htown77 said:
She filed reports. She admits she contacted men and women in law enforcement who absolutely were in the position to help her.
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If I'm not mistaken, and perhaps I am, I read that in 2009 he was arrested and charged with a felony and then charges were dropped.
So Urban had the opportunity to fire him then.
Yes, the wife recanted. But he was arrested and charged.
"In 2009, when a graduate assistant under Meyer at Florida, Smith was arrested and charged with felony assault following an altercation with his then-pregnant wife. His wife declined to file charges. The two have since divorced."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...ed-ohio-state-assistant-zach-smith/825795002/
 
Why is it that rock stars get away with anything and everything while we (or I) judge all the rest so harshly? Meyer is a rock star. Money and glory. He makes his fans very happy. So did Jim Morrison. We like our rock stars to be beyond the edge. We expect all others to be like the rest of us, our egos, untempted by the riches of avarice, freely able to assume what it would be like to be reminded daily of our greatness and how we would navigate the sirens call.
 
UM is racing Tom Osborne to see who can recruit the most murderer's. A debate about is ethics, truthfulness and honor, is a deeply flawed vision and exercise,

:deadhorse:
 
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