Urban Meyer put on paid leave

bystander said:
I think the allegations are domestic violence and not sexual abuse.
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You’re right! But, I sort lump all this behavior in the “assault” category. Just venting about how our society has gotten so wrapped up in this area. I agree with Htown’s blog above. It’s crazy how the blame game & vicious attacks go on without the full facts revealed. I could go on, but I’ll let Htown handle this one!
 
I also agree with HTown's rational point of view but it seems that the contract language posted above is clear; he was to report any known instances of abuse as listed in the relevant section. The question is this: did he know and did he report it? The University is bound to comply and the administrative leave appears to be merely an opportunity for everyone to sort out Meyer's actions or non-actions whatever the case may be.

From what I've read in the Tweets, Smith's wife (Courtney) said Meyer's wife never told her she had told Meyer. So it appears we know that Meyer's wife knew but there is nothing from Courtney indicating that he in fact did know. It's hard to believe that Meyer's wife wouldn't have said anything. Every woman I've ever known would have mentioned it to me if I were their husband. There is no doubt of that in my mind.

But I guess the HGH was also for Clemen's wife.
 
Buck-Horn said:
You’re right! But, I sort lump all this behavior in the “assault” category. Just venting about how our society has gotten so wrapped up in this area. I agree with Htown’s blog above. It’s crazy how the blame game & vicious attacks go on without the full facts revealed. I could go on, but I’ll let Htown handle this one!
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I agree that things appear to be off the hook on all the allegations.
 
but it seems that the contract language posted above is clear; he was to report any known instances of abuse as listed in the relevant section.
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I am not a fan of your Clemens quip, but you are right on the contract. The problem here is, assuming his wife told him, if we are talking about an adult and they already have gone to the police but decided not to pursue the matter.. what is the point of reporting it to the university? This is where both the contract and title ix need reform. I guess I am asking for some common sense here to intervene. This is off campus, we are dealing with an adult, the police have already been informed by said adult spouse, the employee denies it, the spouse is not pressing charges.. what exactly is there to be done by university administrators? Also, this is not the spouse even telling Urban. Urban would be reporting "well my wife said, she said..."
 
Htown77 said:
I am not a fan of your Clemens quip, but you are right on the contract. The problem here is, assuming his wife told him, if we are talking about an adult and they already have gone to the police but decided not to pursue the matter.. what is the point of reporting it to the university? This is where both the contract and title ix need reform. I guess I am asking for some common sense here to intervene. This is off campus, we are dealing with an adult, the police have already been informed by said adult spouse, the employee denies it, the spouse is not pressing charges.. what exactly is there to be done by university administrators? Also, this is not the spouse even telling Urban. Urban would be reporting "well my wife said, she said..."
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Sorry, it just came to mind. The family dynamic in high-profile, moneyed families is on a different level it seems. Leslie Moonves wife (who may have had an affair with him while he was still married to his previous wife long ago) is defending his honor and morals. Would Meyers wife do the same given what is at stake? It is nothing to be surprised about in my view.

I suppose the loose end is this: Is Meyer bound to personally ensure that the administrators know regardless if it is already in the public domain? Can he assume they knew and he was released of his obligation?
 
Is Meyer bound to personally ensure that the administrators know regardless if it is already in the public domain? Can he assume they knew and he was released of his obligation?
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He probably is bound. However, if I am an admin, assuming no new information comes to light, I would have to let this one go against Meyer. If she brought a title ix suit against the university, we have a jury system for just these situations. Again, based on what we currently have, I would have to practice jury nullification and find the university not in violation of title ix even if they technically are.
 
The contract says title IX violations “in connection with a university sponsored event” (or any reasonably suspected—which seems probable) must be reported. Were these violations connected to Ohio State sponsored events?

I did just watch the interview—she makes a heck of a witness. In my gut, I feel Meyer “should” have done something and I think especially in these days, the public will feel that way. Not sure it was a legal duty though. I bet Shelly did tell Urban all she knew, and I bet she’s already told him she won’t lie about it. He’s in a tough position, from a PR standpoint, which is as important as the legal standpoint.
 
Not going to be popular on this thread, but I'm having trouble seeing the horror in this story. Someone's getting abused at home, husband has a job. Abused needs to stand up and go to the police, but doesn't. Tells their friends who work with husband. Now it's everybody's problem? Abused just cannot handle going to the police on their own, just cannot, so now it's everyone else's problem. I get there's rules/contracts/the-ever-so-holy Title IX at play here, and it'll play out, but I think it's iffy at best that somehow Urban Meyer or Tom Herman or the athletic director or the janitor at the OSU stadium had a responsibility to go to the police before the abused did. The next thing you know, some idiot is going to start the idea that, somehow, similar to Penn State, Ohio State needs to forfeit victories, they didn't really win a national championship, take down the banner, etc. I watched the interview and it was said that "this person should not be coaching young men". Is it because it's basically entertainment and on national TV? I don't recall seeing interviews on TV where an accountant was abusing a spouse and they get on TV and say "he should never be crunching numbers again". Maybe the abused really likes Michigan?
 
Htown77 said:
"Back in 2009 in Gainesville, Courtney Smith needed help. She was a frightened, battered 24-year old newlywed with nowhere to turn. She was convinced by Urban Meyer’s top confidant and future “special assistant to the head coach” that there was too much at risk to press charges against Zach.

In Ohio, she found herself in a similar situation. Courtney said she called 911 “a handful of times” over the years but didn’t always pursue charges.

“I hung up out of fear because I was scared Zach would lose his job,” Courtney said."

Urban Meyer's "top confidant and future "special assistant to the head coach"" was also the accused's grandfather. It seems like the grandfather would get involved at the behest of his grandson, not uninvolved urban meyer.

If she does not file charges, and the employee denies it, what is Urban Meyer supposed to do? What is any boss supposed to do?

Title IX says report it, but if a police report has been filed and then charges are not pressed for something off campus unrelated to work, why the hell should a university investigate? They are not a police force.

"Despite Zach never having been convicted of any charges, on July 20, Delaware County court of pleas magistrate David J. Laughlin issued a domestic violence civil protection order against Zach.

Laughlin’s ruling said: “the court finds that (Courtney Smith) is in immediate and present danger of domestic violence and for good cause the following temporary orders are necessary to protect the persons named (Courtney Smith and her children Cameron, 8, and Quinn, 6) in this order from domestic violence.”

Bradley Koffel, Zach Smith’s attorney, dismissed the domestic violence allegations and the recently issued five-year domestic violence civil protection order against Zach."

Okay, so when a protection order was filed, Urban fired him. All of this is pending in the courts. If Zach Smith is ultimately found not guilty, Urban could have opened himself up to libel charges had he told the media "zach's wife claimed to my wife she was abused." That is spreading a rumor Urban Meyer had no way of knowing if it was accurate. None of this is happening on campus. This is all happening at an employee's home, the police are investigating, but after no charges are being filed.

I do not like Urban Meyer or Ohio State. I think anyone that abuses their wife is a no good SOB that should face the full force of the law. However, I also believe in innocent until proven guilty. I also do not think a football coach nor a university nor a boss should be responsible for an employee's domestic situation away from work when the police have been notified and the adult victim is refusing to file charges.

If this grown, adult woman contacted the police, then she had access to help, far better help than Urban Meyer or a university administrator. If she refused to press charges and the employee denied it, I am not sure Urban Meyer or an educational institution should be investigating or firing anyone just because his wife was told something that he and she did not know was true or not. If Title IX says Ohio State should have investigated even though this adult woman refused to press charges, Title IX needs to be reformed. This whole thing seems like a hack job against Urban Meyer. This is not remotely the same thing as JoePa or even Briles.

I am happy to revise my opinion if more information comes to light, but based on this, I am not sure what exactly Urban Meyer did wrong. Sorry, but if Title IX wants universities to get involved where a police report has been filed and the woman has refused to file charges, that is dumb and unjust.

However, this seems like a hack job assigning Meyer responsibility for something he should not be responsible for, and the lynch mob is all too gleefully joining in. I see a lot of responsible parties in this, but Meyer is a reach.

If your relationship with your spouse soured, and your spouse texted your boss's spouse accusing you of abuse, would you want your boss and company to start investigating and fire you on the accusation alone? Or would you want the police to handle it? If you are the boss, do you want to handle that or would you rather the police? Would you fire an employee based on something his wife texted your wife alone? If your employee denied it, would you fire him without even charges filed?

Title IX is in need of serious reform.

I am all for justice meted out to domestic abusers, but such matters needed to be handled by the justice system, which is far better equipped to handle it and includes due process as opposed to a university administrator or a football coach. Also we need to do a better of job of teaching girls from a young age to go to the police if they are abused by a domestic partner. If our justice system is failing in this matter, it should be reformed, not universities.
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I agree with a lot of what you said, except for minimizing the potential that Coach Meyer did not report. Duty to report is built in to many positions of authority. Whether someone thinks/knows their part won't be impactful, it's still part of the required process. You must comply.
 
I hung up in fear because Zach might lose his job.....yep, there ya go.....it's sad there "has to be" laws making others responsible for other's inactions....
 
Abused needs to stand up and go to the police, but doesn't. Tells their friends who work with husband. Now it's everybody's problem? Abused justcannot handle going to the police on theirown, just cannot, so now it's everyone else's problem.I
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Actually, the spouse DID report to the police. According to the article, after reporting to the police, she would then decide not to press charges. It was her decision not to press charges and not only is that not Urban Meyer’s responsibility, there is not anything for him or ohio state to do if she will not press charges. They are not responisbile for her decision.

I agree with a lot of what you said, except for minimizing the potential that Coach Meyer did not report. Duty to report is built in to many positions of authority. Whether someone thinks/knows their part won't be impactful, it's still part of the required process. You must comply.
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The victim had already reported to the police! The police are the ultimate authority here. If the victim had reported to the police already and then decided not to press charges, why should urban meyer report something his wife said she said to anyone. If title ix requires it after something has been reported to the police and the adult victim decides not to pursue, title ix needs to be reformed.

Here are the quotes from the story:

"Meyer said last week during Big Ten Media Days that he had no knowledge of two alleged domestic violence incidents in 2015 with former assistant wide receivers coach Zach Smith that were investigated by the Powell (Ohio) Police Department."

“He took me and shoved me up against the wall, with his hands around my neck,” Courtney said. “Something he did very often. My (then 3-year old) daughter was clinging to my leg. It obviously registered with him what he was doing, so he took my (then 5-year old) son and left. So I called the police.”

Since Zach had already left, Courtney told the police not to come to the house because she had to calm her daughter down and put her to bed. The police said since Zach had left, they could come out the next day or she could come by the station the next morning. The report was officially filed on Oct. 26, 2015. Zach Smith has never been convicted of domestic violence."

One 2015 text exchange between Courtney and Shelley Meyer shows the extent of Shelley’s knowledge of the alleged domestic abuse and that she was concerned for Courtney’s safety.

Shelley: “I am with you! A lot of women stay hoping it will get better. I don’t blame you! But just want u to be safe. Do you have a restraining order? He scares me”

Courtney: “Restraining orders don’t do anything in Ohio-I tried to get protection order which is what started this whole investigation. And that should go through soon finally. It’s hard bc you have to prove immediate danger. Legal system is tough. Basically you have to prove he will kill u to get protective order”

Shelley: “Geesh! Even w the pics? Didn’t law enforcement come to your place ever??”

After the party, Courtney said she went home, while Zach went out with some buddies. Courtney said Zach returned home drunk around 3 a.m. with a female co-worker, who Zach called “baby,” pleading with Courtney to let the woman spend the night with them, according to a Gainesville police report.

Courtney stated she tried to get Zach out of her bed, which he refused and then forcefully grabbed her,” according to the police report."

[The accused's grandfather] and [the accused's] mother drove from Ohio to Gainesville to ask Courtney to drop the charges, Courtney said. Courtney said she also received a call from de Fries to set up a meeting at Panera Bread on SW Archer Road in Gainesville.

Ultimately, Courtney said she relented to de Fries and didn’t press charges. Courtney had convinced herself this would never happen again.

She was wrong."

This is not like Penn State or Baylor. There is no coverup here. All of this WAS REPORTED TO THE POLICE. If Courtney was being abused and after reporting to the police she decided not to press charges, I am really sorry she made that bad decision. It was her decision, not Urban Meyer's. However, what is the point of Urban Meyer reporting to ohio state that his own wife said that an employee's wife said her husband abused her when the employee denies it, the police have been informed and the wife is not pressing any charges.

Let's put aside for a moment nothing has been proven, the accused denies it and we do not even know if they guy is guilty, and let's say that Urban Meyer reports what his wife said to Ohio State in 2015. Let's say Ohio State fires him over the accusations alone. What has been solved? The alleged victim had already decided to stay with him and not press charges after reporting to the police. So now the alleged victim is staying with an abuser that is now unemployed? Like I said, how does that help her?

The whole reason this has come to light is that there are police reports meaning this was all reported to the police and the victim decided not to pursue.

 
Zach sounds like a real POS

I agree w/ HTown that placing responsibility on Meyer or anyone at tOSU is out of line, but if the terms of his contract require reporting abuse and he agreed to take on that responsibility, then he should have reported it, fair or not

This should be an instructive case for agents negotiating coaching contracts going forward
 
In my opinion, the voluminous NCAA rule book (and Title IX), similar to the IRS regulations are a direct result of cheating. Period. We can complain all we want about how petty some of the rules appear to be but when you have people who refuse to operate in good faith, who ignore ethics, who break laws and are enabled by rabid fans then you get rules that appear to be far-reaching. To me, it is common knowledge that football players have always had privileges and coaches who cover for their mistakes. They have brought this upon themselves. If Meyer is caught up in it then I have no sympathy for him.
 
Driver 8 said:
Zach sounds like a real POS

I agree w/ HTown that placing responsibility on Meyer or anyone at tOSU is out of line, but if the terms of his contract require reporting abuse and he agreed to take on that responsibility, then he should have reported it, fair or not

This should be an instructive case for agents negotiating coaching contracts going forward
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I think it has to be in the contract because how can the adminstraters know what is happening? How many times (Pete Carroll) has a coach acted like he can't police all his players? To what level do you push the obligation to report? If nobody has it in their contract then you are begging for a lack of institutional control ruling. The Feds in this matter won't care why. They will look at the law and nail the University. The University needs to have processes and controls. The coaches role is vital in all of this.
 
Driver 8 said:
Zach sounds like a real POS

I agree w/ HTown that placing responsibility on Meyer or anyone at tOSU is out of line, but if the terms of his contract require reporting abuse and he agreed to take on that responsibility, then he should have reported it, fair or not

This should be an instructive case for agents negotiating coaching contracts going forward
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Great points. I keep going back to if you give Urban the benefit of the doubt, what is driving this? If this is so simple, why put an innocent man on leave from his team days before the season begins?
There was a statement made by the ex wife that she feared that her husband would lose her job and that he said he "would burn the whole thing down".....
What was he going to burn down? Could be their rocky marriage but maybe there was more and that is why he continued to coach despite OSU (arguably) minor knowledge of his domestic issues.
 
I also do not think a football coach nor a university nor a boss should be responsible for an employee's domestic situation away from work when the police have been notified and the adult victim is refusing to file charges.
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This. I despise UM and tOSU but I don't get how this is any of their responsibility. However, that is my personal opinion, if it's in his contract, then he's got to comply, even if it is completely unfair. It may come down to what does it mean when the contract says he has to report KNOWN abuse? All he knows is heresay between 2 women, and we are not even sure he knew that much - does that constitute him KNOWING that abuse was going on?

Like someone else said earlier - the wife decides to let it all slide, legally, and so now it is every else's problem to solve?
 
Phil Elliott said:
This. I despise UM and tOSU but I don't get how this is any of their responsibility. However, that is my personal opinion, if it's in his contract, then he's got to comply, even if it is completely unfair. It may come down to what does it mean when the contract says he has to report KNOWN abuse? All he knows is heresay between 2 women, and we are not even sure he knew that much - does that constitute him KNOWING that abuse was going on?

Like someone else said earlier - the wife decides to let it all slide, legally, and so now it is every else's problem to solve?
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I think it's all for the university to protect itself from a lack of institutional control. If you let the coach decide to interpret the information then you've walled yourself off as an administrator. The coach has a perceived conflict of interest at a minimum. He is not a lawyer. He is not necessarily versed in Title IX. So that is why he needs to mention it so they can then decide if it a problem or not.
 
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He is not necessarily versed in Title IX. So that is why he needs to mention so they can then decide if it a problem or not.
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I hear you on this, but the other side of the coin is, this incident has been reported the police, no charges are being filed, and the employee denies it, Meyer would be basically spreading gossip. He does not know if it is true and he would be reporting second hand hearsay. You know it would not stay confidential and, if the employee is innocent, there is now a rumor floating around the work place he is an abuser.

I agree with you on institutional control when nothing is being reported to the police, but if something has been reported, no charges are being filed by the adult alleged victim, the employee denies it... this is not a situation for an employer to stick his nose in. Hell, if the employee and spouse have reconciled and she is not pressing charges, do you really think the spouse is going to welcome ohio state sticking their nose in their marriage?
 
Phil Elliott said:
I think once it is reported to police, the university should be off the hook.
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I'm sure they are reviewing all the facts before they decide whether or not they are willing to go to bat for him. The leave was a good idea. That's the question; was the police report good enough for compliance under his contract. Was he to assume the administration knew and his silence was prudent or compliant?
 
There were texts between the women with graphic photos of the beat down.
Meyer should have reported it and let the university sort it out
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I see selfies of an injured woman that may or may not be the result of domestic abuse. If there is video/photos of him assaulting her, please provide the link.

If this has been reported to the police, he denies it, and now she is not pressing charges, what exactly is there for Ohio State to sort out? Urban Meyer shows the photos to an admin, the employee denies it, the wife had filed a policy report but is now not pressing charges... now what? What do Ohio State and Urban Meyer do? Form a mob and lynch Zach Smith?

If things are not being reported to the police (JoePa), if there is a coverup (Briles and JoePa), if there is possible coverup/collusion between the police and university (Jimbo/FSU/Winston and Petrino/Arkansas), that would be one thing. However, so far, none of that is present. She admits the police tried to help her press charges and she refused and instead complained to Urban Meyer’s wife and other coachs’ wives and somehow this somehow made her husband’s boss and employer responsible for her decision to not press charges.
 
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