Urban Meyer put on paid leave

Joe Fan said:
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Wow. If that sign is real then it's incredibly tone-deaf. Me Too? When domestic abuse is at the root of this? I know it's not rape but Jesus...
 
Still can’t believe the TCU v. oH State game time is same as USC v. Texas. Guess we can catch second half of TCU after we up by 45 at halftime.
 
Htown77 said:
That is a very bad example. OJ was taken to court and evidence was presented and evaluated in a court. Here, due to the alleged victim’s refusal to press charges and put forth her evidence and allegations before the scrutiny of a court, it is much more difficult to determine their veracity and determine if Zach Smith is guilty.

I will repeat myself: if an employee is accused of a crime completely unrelated to work and away from work and the adult accuser, despite being in a postion to file charges, refuses to do so and the accused denies it, there are not any grounds to fire the accused.

Zach Smith has not gotten away with anything on a technicality. His accuser has refused to pursue justice or put her accusations before the scrutiny of a court where Zach Smith would have a chance to defend himself. This is not remotely like OJ. This is not innocent until proven guilty. This is innocent because the accuser refuses to try and prove guilt! Yes, an employer acts appropriately not firing when the accuser refuses not to try and prove guilt. If their accuser refuses to try and prove it, there is zero reason for Ohio State or Urban Meyer to swoop in and administer klan style, accusation alone based punishment.

I am not saying Zach Smith is innocent. I do not know. However, it really is not appropriate to try to treat him as guilty when his accuser refuses to prove his guilt in the appropriate manner. She has refused to put her allegations in a venue where they could be better analyzed by both ohio state and the public and where Zach Smith would be able to fairly defend himself.
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It's not a bad example based on his wording. Making this only about police reports and convictions makes OJ a famous example of "innocence" in the eye of the court, but not the court of common sense.

But I'm not saying he SHOULD be fired. I'm saying that established procedures surrounding a Duty to Report should be followed. And that many institutions sensitive to relationships with power differential (schools, Healthcare, government) build those in to protect those with less power.
 
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Htown77 said:
I will repeat myself: if an employee is accused of a crime completely unrelated to work and away from work and the adult accuser, despite being in a postion to file charges, refuses to do so and the accused denies it, there are not any grounds to fire the accused.
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Htown, this is not a typical employee/employer situation. The factors and considerations are very different. That is where you and I disagree. For that reason one cannot apply due process considerations to this case, particularly as it relates to the future of UM.

As I said in an earlier post, the issue here is not simply a matter of guilt or innocence, although I believe that the preponderance of available evidence certainly points for some level of guilt.

The future of Urban Meyer will not be determined in a court of law. It will be decided in the context of Title IV, the #MeToo movement, and an assessment by Ohio State relative to whether retaining a top coach — and wins and loses — is more important than the school’s reputation.

As I also observed in an earlier post, if this were happening at Texas, in my judgment termination would be a foregone conclusion because the powers at Texas would be unwilling to jeopardize the school’s reputation.

Ohio State is not Texas and ultimately they may err on the side of wins and loses. It wouldn’t surprise me, but it would be a very poor decision.
 
Texas would be unwilling to jeopardize the school’s reputation
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https://www.texastribune.org/2018/08/04/james-milliken-named-sole-finalist-ut-system-chancellor/

Our reputation? Have you seen the new chancellor being appointed?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Milliken

“Milliken became Chancellor of the City University of New York in 2014. During his time as Chancellor, there has been federal and state investigations of institutional corruption at the university.”

If UT cared about reputation, we would not have picked James Miliken, who has a giant alleged corruption cloud over his head, as our next chancellor. I do not know if he had anything to do with it, but on the perception standards, hiring him does not look good.

@SabreHorn what is the deal with hiring this guy and the New York corruption investigation anyway? If you google him, it is the first thing that pops up, yet none of the papers report it. The media is all over Meyer for something an employee did, but for some reason the media does not care about corruption investigations while this guy was chancellor.

Anyway, UT’s admin has been a clownshow under Powers and Fenves. UT’s reputation right now? Ha! What a joke!

It will be decided in the context of Title IV, the #MeToo movement, and an assessment byOhio State relative to whether retaining atop coach — and wins and loses — is moreimportant than the school’s reputation.
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If Meyer did wrong, he should go. If he did nothing wrong, he should stay. If you are saying perception should supersede truth, that is messed up and I cannot support that.

Also, the preponderance does not point to guilt. So far, nothing has come to light that Meyer had anything to do with pressuing this woman to not bring charges. All we have is her speculation, which in reality is a conspiracy theory lacking evidence at this time. Evidence may come to light validating her in tOSU’s investigation, but no, at this time, there is scant evidence. There are mostly just allegations. Urban lying in a press conference does not meet a preponderance standard. It is more than a scintilla and merits an investigation. However, no, it does not make it more likely than not than Meyer was masterminding a scheme to pressure this woman from pressing charges. You may believe Zach Smith confessed to Meyer (see conspiracy), but so far nothing has indicated that. What we have is Meyer was aware of allegations, Smith denied them and she did not press charges which is an action that would back up Smith’s denial, giving Meyer no reason to fire Smith. If this woman was pressured, it was far more like the grandfather (who met with her with Zach Smith’s mother) was involved due to it being his family, and the other guy was involved at the request of Smith and/or his grandfather than it was a scheme by Urban Meyer. The grandfather and other guy happened to be friends with Meyer, but they also happened to both be friends with Zach Smith and a lot of other people not being accused.

It rather amazing me that the media has gone all in on this Urban Meyer conspiracy. It is about on par with an Alex Jones InfoWars conspiracy at this point in time as far as evidence goes.

One person made a lot of allegations/speculation about a Meyer conspiracy without supporting evidence. Two people who happened to be frends with Meyer, but also happened to be friends with and one was RELATED TO Zach Smith, allegedly pressured her (although this has not been confirmed. Ive seen no one even interview either of these men). Meyer did tell a lie about something. Yet the media is saying “this proves Meyer was keeping her down all these years?” It proves tiddlywinks. It proves Meyer may not be trustworthy, but it still has to be proven if he lied to “cover up a conspiracy” or whether he lied to try to deflect an attack from a dishonest media practicing yellow journalism.

I am for holding Meyer to a higher standard. He should not lie. However, it is rather troubling no one cares about holding our media to a higher standard. Without a preponderance of the evidence, they have already found Meyer, Ohio State, etc guilty and spread that as the gospel. Even if the worst allegations against Meyer prove true, the media spreading it as gospel without evidence is nothing but yellow, dishonest journalism. It’s how “the dingo ate my baby” tragedy happened. It is how we went to war with spain over 100 years ago. If you, me and everyone else continues to support perception > truth as the standard @dukesteer... God help the society that follows, because it sure as hell will not be a pleasant one to live in.
 
This whole title ix me too government job situation shows that, more than ever, laws like this need to be watered down so people can be held responsible for their own actions and not another person’s inaction. I already admired urban Meyer before and now am adamantly on his side. Like dwi laws they should make spousal abuse laws that have more teeth for the perpetrators rather than someone who saw or knew u jaywalked. Texas is a known liberal school in a red state, so it doesn’t surprise me that a lot here believe in title ix and government overreach. That’s a west mall comment but whoever started this thread didn’t put it there so I’ll ask the hornfans government not to ban me from their twitter account etc.
 
zuckercanyon said:
I already admired urban Meyer before
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I thought I was done with this thread until I read this. ;)
I lived in Florida when UM left Gainsville and he is a sleazy, lying sack of ****.
He left for "health and to spend time with family".
Yet he was on the road with ESPN immediately and his daughter was literally writing letters to the network asking them to "let her daddy come home".
Let's see, at Florida he had a woman beater on his staff and a murderer on his football team.
The moment Tebow and his OC were gone he saw the writing on the wall and high tailed it out of town.
 
You talking bout Miliken, or Urban? :smile1:
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That was my point. I was told UT would put reputation first, but we have a similar situation with the hiring of our chancellor, I see no outrage and the media does not seem to care or even report it.

People are over the top on whether or not a football coach employeed an alleged wife beater and whether or not said coach knew, but who UT has proposed to hire as chancellor just resigned from his last job after state and federal corruption investigations that also led to various other resignations and no one seems to care. It is not even getting mentioned in the stories.
 
I thought I was done with this thread until I read this. ;)
I lived in Florida when UM left Gainsville and he is a sleazy, lying sack of ****.
He left for "health and to spend time with family".
Yet he was on the road with ESPN immediately and his daughter was literally writing letters to the network asking them to "let her daddy come home".
Let's see, at Florida he had a woman beater on his staff and a murderer on his football team.
The moment Tebow and his OC were gone he saw the writing on the wall and high tailed it out of town.
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Actually, I agree that Urban probably is a sleeze. Ive never been a fan of his and still am not. The whole leaving Florida thing was baloney and showed a lack of character. My only point in all of this is someone still needs to prove something to justify forcing him out. Probably being a sleeze alone does not cut it.
 
77,

Thank you for the comments on THEIR new Chancellor, a member of the Children of the Corn cult. "THEIR" because he sure as hell ain't yours or mine. Just another ***** slap from little Ricky Perry.

Consider:

1) He is not from Berzerkley

2) He has no ties to The Great State of Texas

3) He is not from Berzerkley

4) While wandering aimlessly around the country, his only visits to Texas were as a tourist.

5) He is not from Berzerkley

6) He seemingly is not qualified to run an organization of this size

7) Being from Nebraska, he may hate Colorado, which might lead to the firing of Catholic Healthcare Incompetence before those ******* morons bankrupt MD Anderson and St Luke's.

8) He is not from Berzerkley
 
bystander said:
http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...io-state-discuss-domestic-assault-allegations

So, nobody contacted Courtney. If Meyer reported it upstairs then how did they investigate? Did they just tell him to handle it? Did Meyer pressure them to ignore it?

I'm beginning to think this investigation is merely to get all the witnesses in the room AT THE SAME TIME and get their stories straight.
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Exactly. Either Meyer didn't report or the Admin didn't investigate by contacting a key witness. Meyer's off the cuff comment that "there was nothing there" looks really bad.Someone is going to get it in the neck period.
 
moondog_LFZ said:
I thought I was done with this thread until I read this. ;)
I lived in Florida when UM left Gainsville and he is a sleazy, lying sack of ****.
He left for "health and to spend time with family".
Yet he was on the road with ESPN immediately and his daughter was literally writing letters to the network asking them to "let her daddy come home".
Let's see, at Florida he had a woman beater on his staff and a murderer on his football team.
The moment Tebow and his OC were gone he saw the writing on the wall and high tailed it out of town.
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An admirer of the fact that where he goes to coach he wins. Up there with saban n the bear and Knute etc. once u get into character flaws not associated w coaching u may as well say there’s a junior high coach that’s a hall of gamer.
 
moondog_LFZ said:
He is a coach, a teacher, a molder of young men's minds.
His character flaws are directly associated with coaching.
You dishonor those other coaches mentioning his name together with theirs.

"
Tim Tebow masked sins of Urban Meyer at Florida
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/opin...-meyer-florida-ohio-state-20180806-story.html
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heck of an article....did he also have arrests at bowling green and Utah? And do we have similar stats for all national championship teams? Do players get arrested at the same rate at Texas/USC/Ohio State/Alabama/etc? Miami Hurricanes, probably as well.....Using Aaron Hernandez as an example is sort of extreme since he didn't kill anyone while at Florida and had gone on to the NFL. Punching a bouncer doesn't translate into "and then he killed someone", right? Not trying to gloss over the whole thing but once again i'll say that the responsibility of a football coach for everything under the sun seems like an overreach to me. The job of a football coach is to teach the game of football imo....title IX dictating that he also has to act as a parole office/guidance counselor/informant/marriage counselor seems a stretch....
 


^ more allegations in the Ohio State case. Like Courtney Smith’s, these come from biased sources and need to be verified.

From the above:

“The charge was later dropped and Courtney Smith said in a recent televised interview and also told McMurphy that Earle Bruce tried to talk her out of pressing charges against his grandson. That never happened, Lynn Bruce maintained. “Courtney called me at 3 a.m. about that fight and I told Dad I was driving down to Florida to deal with this. He wanted to go with me,” Bruce recalled. “When we arrived, I talked to Courtney alone and Dad went to speak to Urban and Zack. Dad never even saw her on that trip. Then when I heard her use Dad’s name in that TV interview, claiming he told her not to press charges, I wanted to jump through my TV set. Not only would he would never, ever tell her something like that, he never talked to her at all. That is just another thing she has lied about.” Earle Bruce died April 20 in Columbus.”

I asked above, “did anyone in the media ask the people she accused of pressuring her out of charges if they met with her?”

Well, one of them is dead, which is rather convenient. The media has rolled with Courtney's story without verifying anything. Like I said, both stories need to be verified and checked.
 
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Htown77 said:


^ more allegations in the Ohio State case. Like Courtney Smith’s, these come from biased sources and need to be verified.

From the above:

“The charge was later dropped and Courtney Smith said in a recent televised interview and also told McMurphy that Earle Bruce tried to talk her out of pressing charges against his grandson. That never happened, Lynn Bruce maintained. “Courtney called me at 3 a.m. about that fight and I told Dad I was driving down to Florida to deal with this. He wanted to go with me,” Bruce recalled. “When we arrived, I talked to Courtney alone and Dad went to speak to Urban and Zack. Dad never even saw her on that trip. Then when I heard her use Dad’s name in that TV interview, claiming he told her not to press charges, I wanted to jump through my TV set. Not only would he would never, ever tell her something like that, he never talked to her at all. That is just another thing she has lied about.” Earle Bruce died April 20 in Columbus.”

I asked above, “did anyone in the media ask the people she accused of pressuring her out of charges if they met with her?”

Well, one of them is dead, which is rather convenient. The media has rolled with Courtney's story without verifying anything. Like I said, both stories need to be verified and checked.
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Well, well, well. An exact opposite story from the "victims" own mother saying her daughter was the problem. Makes more sense why she is only going to the media and social media instead of pressing charges. Also another reason why I dont ask for people to lose their career over accusations. Unfortunate this has gone on this long.
 
Yep. I believe Lynn Bruce unequivocally. Courtney Smith is a scheming liar, and Zach Smith is the victim. Time to reinstate Meyer.
 
Vol Horn 4 Life said:
Well, well, well. An exact opposite story from the "victims" own mother saying her daughter was the problem. Makes more sense why she is only going to the media and social media instead of pressing charges. Also another reason why I dont ask for people to lose their career over accusations. Unfortunate this has gone on this long.
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Can't say for but I took it she's Zack Smith's aunt.
 
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