Ukraine updates

[OUBubba]

Putin was not only a Communist, he was KGB. That’s ingrained in his methods and who he his. While change is possible, you don’t just go from an officer in the KGB to a regular guy.

Putin apologists and the blame America first crowd is stretched out so much, they’re circus contortionists at this point.

I think he's a Russian Nationalist who sees acquiring the former Soviet-era countries as a way to Make Russia Great Again (pun intended).

 

[Driver 8]

 

[Driver 8]

Another one of the last shots of the Moskva
The Russians lost their best warship in a land war against a country with no navy
The Ukrainian farmers are bad asses

 

[Chop]

I think he's a Russian Nationalist who sees acquiring the former Soviet-era countries as a way to Make Russia Great Again (pun intended).

He's all that, but he was also a Communist and a KGB officer. That seems like the sort of thing that becomes ingrained. This is what the hard left looks like in power. Government censorship. Control of the airwaves and press. Jailing dissenters. Purges of the military and government. An aura of fear that permeates the whole society. Same old stuff as under Brezhnev, etc.

And if anyone thinks that the Russian Soviets didn't favor Russia, to the detriment of Ukraine and other ethnic republics, I know a certain bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in. One exception--Georgia was also favored by Stalin (he was a Georgian).

 

[Mr. Deez]

I think he's a Russian Nationalist who sees acquiring the former Soviet-era countries as a way to Make Russia Great Again (pun intended).

Generally agree. I think the prospect of Ukraine joining NATO and the EU, because it takes such reacquisition off the table. Being in NATO means Ukraine is aligned with the US for security, and being in the EU basically means letting Germany get rich off of them instead of Russia.

 

[Monahorns]

Putin was not only a Communist, he was KGB. That’s ingrained in his methods and who he his. While change is possible, you don’t just go from an officer in the KGB to a regular guy.

According to the Soviet expert I listen to, being KGB comes with a gangster, mafia mind set, not really Communist. I would argue Putin is still KGB but that doesn't mean he is a Communist. He isn't motivated by Communist ideology at this point in time. He is motivated by a mafioso mind set.

Putin apologists and the blame America first crowd is stretched out so much, they’re circus contortionists at this point.

I am no apologist for Putin and I don't blame the US for Putin's actions. Putin decided to attack Ukraine. That is on him and he it is looking like it will not turn out good for him.

 

[Monahorns]

I think he's a Russian Nationalist who sees acquiring the former Soviet-era countries as a way to Make Russia Great Again (pun intended).

Yeah, he is a Russian Nationalist. That means he isn't interested in conquering all the Soviet nations. It means he is going to be very authoritarian in how he treats Belarus and Ukraine. It is a tsarist mentality. Russian nationalists believe there are 3 Russias. Russia, White Russia (the literal translation of Belarus), and Little Russia (Ukraine).

 

[Monahorns]

He's all that, but he was also a Communist and a KGB officer. That seems like the sort of thing that becomes ingrained. This is what the hard left looks like in power. Government censorship. Control of the airwaves and press. Jailing dissenters. Purges of the military and government. An aura of fear that permeates the whole society. Same old stuff as under Brezhnev, etc.

But the things you list here are not Communist. They are authoritarian, totalitarian. Communism is something very specific.

And if anyone thinks that the Russian Soviets didn't favor Russia, to the detriment of Ukraine and other ethnic republics, I know a certain bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in. One exception--Georgia was also favored by Stalin (he was a Georgian).

You are correct with your first part here. The Russians were chauvinistic in the Soviet era. They Russofied the other nations they conquered. However, Georgia was not an exception. Stalin treated Georgia harshly too even though he was one. A bit of self-hatred probably.

 

[OUBubba]

Our friend musburger hasn't posted since 4/10. Is it cold in Siberia this time of year?

 

[Chop]

 

[Monahorns]

Yeah Chop, there are people "right" of Putin who want even more war. They always have. I have been listening to reports like this from Russia politicians calling for nuclear war with the West or taking them over to prove how great Russia is.

It's like John McCain, Lindsey Gram, and Adam Kinzinger in the US today. People running their mouths about truly horrendous things.

The good news is that Russia has shown their offensive capabilities are very weak. They will be lucky to even control Donbas and Crimea after the war, which they had control of before the war. Putin greatly miscalculated and may regret his decision at this point. Or maybe not. Either way, Russia can't threaten Europe in any way, and the US would quickly react through NATO if they attacked Germany. All these guys in Russia would be dead before long.

 

[Monahorns]

Our friend musburger hasn't posted since 4/10. Is it cold in Siberia this time of year?

Maybe he hasn't been loyal enough to the cause or successful enough in his mission and was sent to the gulag.

I kid. I don't always understand his point of view, but I don't think he is Russian.

 

[Statalyzer]

The history between the two countries goes way before the Soviets.

Obviously, but nobody is seriously pushing for land to be restored to where it was over 100 years ago (unless I missed where Putin has offered to give southern Sakhalin to Japan). A lot of the "this is just how things should be and how they used to be" references are dating back to the 80s, not the 1800s.

They were “excused”, in large part, as a response to like crimes committed by the Nazis as Operation Barbarossa began.

It did offer them a convenient excuse, but they would have done the same thing regardless - Poland and Czechoslovakia didn't invade them like Germany did and yet their civilians suffered the same depravities.

 

[EDT]

Chop,
I am not a bit worried. We have armed our troops with the latest how to be WOKE books. It's all good!

 

[Musburger1]

Maybe he hasn't been loyal enough to the cause or successful enough in his mission and was sent to the gulag.

I kid. I don't always understand his point of view, but I don't think he is Russian.

No, I've just waited a bit to see how things develop. I think it should start becoming clear to everyone that what this is really about is the USA vs Russia, with Ukraine as the main focal point for now and NATO/EU functioning as the loyal US proxy.

As far as Ukraine itself, the eastern army in the Donbass is being destroyed. The Southern Ukraine coast along the Black Sea now belongs to Russia with the exception of Odessa. Odessa is a Ukrainian stronghold that is host to many Russian speaking people. Once the Donbass is settled in the East, Odessa will surely be the next target. It appears doubtful Zelinski/US will allow a surrender so the fate of Odessa could be similar to Mariupol which means a senseless loss of life and destruction of a large city.

A developing situation is happening in Moldova but not being reported on by MSM. A strip of Moldova which borders Ukraine, Transnistria, is inhabited by Russian speaking and sympathetic people. Think of it as a breakaway Republic as was Donesk. Russian intelligence is worried that Romanian and Ukrainian troops are being prepared to attack Transnistria to both put pressure on Russia and pull away Russian troops from the East, and also seize a large stockpile of weapons Ukraine needs. But Moldova is a NATO country and Russia would surely respond assymetrically. In other words, NATO installations including those in Germany could be targeted leading to WWIII.

In economic news, Zerohedge posted this article about linking the Ruble to gold. Something to think about.

A New Gold Standard? Kremlin Confirms Intention To Back Ruble With Gold And Commodities | ZeroHedge

 

[Musburger1]

Michael Brenner: American Dissent on Ukraine Is Dying in Darkness

May be of interest to someone. I thought it was an excellent dialog. So most of you probably will dismiss as Putin propaganda or such.

 

[Monahorns]

If Russia links the ruble to gold that could really help their economy. They would still need to liberalize some things though.

I saw a letter on Twitter from a Ukrainian battalion basically saying they refuse to fight because of mistreatment by Ukrainian officers and the slaughtering they are witnessing at the hands of the Russians. Not sure where these guys were located or if their experience is representative, but it is a telling message.

 

[Monahorns]

If the goal is more dead people then Ukraine should keep demanding money and weapons from the US and refuse to negotiate. If the goal is no more dead people then they should tell the US to back off and then go to the negotiating table. I get that it sucks to lose land in the East and South. But those areas were already not so complimentary about the Ukrainian government.

Secession is a right of every people group. It the only way to respect sovereignty of people and avoid war.

 

[Musburger1]

 

[Horn6721]

Mus
I don't often agree with you but I know you to be really intelligent.
THAT was a weak silly analogy.

 

[Musburger1]

Mus
I don't often agree with you but I know you to be really intelligent.
THAT was a weak silly analogy.

I thought it was a rather simple, but good analogy. What exactly did you think was silly?

 

[Chop]

The Southern Ukraine coast along the Black Sea now belongs to Russia with the exception of Odessa. Odessa is a Ukrainian stronghold that is host to many Russian speaking people. Once the Donbass is settled in the East, Odessa will surely be the next target.

Odessa is like Paris. While I haven't been, I've seen many photos and videos. The city is a world treasure. It's beautiful. Russia should not destroy it--no matter what happens with this war. That would be like destroying Paris, Venice, Vienna, or Rome.

 

[nashhorn]

The old “domino” theory resurrected.

 

[Horn6721]

Mus
Do you think the USA involvement in any Central American country is remotely analogous to what Russia/USSR did.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

Mus
Do you think the USA involvement in any Central American country is remotely analogous to what Russia/USSR did.

We were just as interested in insuring friendly governments near our border as Russia is. We used our influence in legal, quasi-legal, and frankly, occasionally illegal means to make it happen. We just didn't overtly invade to precipitate such an outcome.

 

[Horn6721]

And when they overtly invaded they murdered many people and did widespread destruction that hurt for decades

 

[Chop]

Conceptually, the biggest foul committed by Russia was invading a sovereign, independent state--which is what Ukraine is and was. Ukraine is/was recognized by the UN and the nations of the world as a sovereign, independent nation. This breaks longstanding norms of not invading another nation (especially for the purpose of conquest of all or a part of the territory) that goes back to the close of WWII, and before that, in European lands, to the Treaty of Westphalia in 1648.

Establishment of nation-state concepts still used today, and an end to the bloodiest Catholic vs. Protestant war (more complicated than that, of course, but this is a sports board...).

 

[Musburger1]

Mus
Do you think the USA involvement in any Central American country is remotely analogous to what Russia/USSR did.

I think you totally missed the analogy. Watch it again. He places the US in the hypothetical position defending against the encroachment of China, by comparing that with the actual position Russia faces with the encroachment of the US. Just as NATO started with US friendly states and then worked it’s way East toward Russia, the analogy has China starting with anti-US countries and expanding northward.

 

[TaylorTRoom]

So, here we are. For whatever reasons Russia claims for making this move, this armed invasion was totally discretionary on their part. It was a flex. Russia believes they could do it, take Ukraine, quickly and there would be no consequence. This type of calculation (big ones eating little ones) has gone on for millennia and the winners write the history.
But their calculation was wrong. Russia is not powerful enough to quickly take Ukraine. They are meeting resistance from Ukraine, aided by the western world. Yes, it is a proxy war, but not vs. the US, but rather “the west”. (Or NATO, if you prefer).
So, now, in its attempt to flex, for security, Russia has a much larger border with NATO, and is enmities with a Ukraine that despises them, for the murders, rapes and thefts. Also, the west views Russia in a new light, and it will take decades of work to change that.
“You’re doing a great job, Putin!”

 

[Musburger1]

So, here we are. For whatever reasons Russia claims for making this move, this armed invasion was totally discretionary on their part. It was a flex. Russia believes they could do it, take Ukraine, quickly and there would be no consequence. This type of calculation (big ones eating little ones) has gone on for millennia and the winners write the history.
But their calculation was wrong. Russia is not powerful enough to quickly take Ukraine. They are meeting resistance from Ukraine, aided by the western world. Yes, it is a proxy war, but not vs. the US, but rather “the west”. (Or NATO, if you prefer).
So, now, in its attempt to flex, for security, Russia has a much larger border with NATO, and is enmities with a Ukraine that despises them, for the murders, rapes and thefts. Also, the west views Russia in a new light, and it will take decades of work to change that.
“You’re doing a great job, Putin!”

You still think this about Ukraine. You have no clue. The whole thing is a geopolitical war. It’s about the US maintaining global hegemony vs Russia asserting sovereignty. The inability to recognize this is mind boggling. This doesn’t end at Ukraine.

Taylor, you also said the sanctions would quickly destroy the Russian economy. Check back in a few months and tell me again what a great idea it was to escalate an economic war. By the way, have you seen the most recent Ruble-Dollar exchange rate?