Ukraine updates

TaylorTRoom said:
So, 10 weeks in, Donbas, the “breakaway republic” (need extra scare quotes around republic), populated by Russian speakers ready to join mother Russia, will be taken from Ukraine? Are you impressed by that?
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Not sure they will join Russia. Maybe. Maybe break away area like Transnistria. But not impressed. Russia is a backwards country with a backwards military. I think their invasion of Ukraine shows how little of a threat they are.
 
TaylorTRoom said:
Not my point. The point is, Russia claimed those areas were full of people who wanted to be Russians, and were being oppressed/suppressed by an illegitimate Ukraine government, and would welcome Russian intervention to save them. In actuality- not so much.
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Maybe they don't want to be a part of Russia. But there were also votes to join Russia at one point. Who knows how valid is. But the Ukrainian state did kill hundreds if not thousands of Russian speakers in the last 8 years for not being aligned with the state. The people didn't welcome the Russians in as liberators, but they also weren't appealing to Kyiv to defend them.
 
TaylorTRoom said:
I think it’s more complex than that. It also depends upon how those across the border, not under Russian control, fare. If they are free and prosperous, no Ukrainians are going to be happy under Russian control, unless they are equally free and prosperous.
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Neither side is free and prosperous. Moot point.

TaylorTRoom said:
Musburger calls this a conflict of powers and I believe he is wrong. It is part of a larger, century old conflict of ideas- liberalism vs. progressivism, free markets vs. planned economies, libertarianism vs. authoritarianism. Lines get blurred, because these same ideas are also competing within the individual nations, but this is what is being contested.
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Are you saying the US and Europe is liberal, free market, and libertarian? I don't see that at all. The US is more so than Russia and Ukraine. But the US is run by Critical Social Justice ideology which is quickly gaining control of the economy and our personal lives. Covid policy, vaccine mandates, government capture of news/social media, etc. The best thing for the world would be for NATO to butt out and leave Russia and Ukraine to work out their differences. There will be less death, less starvation, less property destruction, less economic harm than what the current situation is leading to.

Btw, Julian Assange is a journalist who simply reported a leak that the government didn't want leaked. Why should his fate be any different than Politico, that published the leak of the Supreme Court voting information? They did the same thing in essence.
 
Anybody else following the Lavrov statements about Jewish Nazis? Basically, the Russians have redefined Nazi from alternate definitions of “National Socialist”, or “fascist that is anti-Semitic”, or even “extreme right winger with short hair and swastika tattoos” to meaning “anybody opposed to Russia in any way”.
 
TaylorTRoom said:
Anybody else following the Lavrov statements about Jewish Nazis? Basically, the Russians have redefined Nazi from alternate definitions of “National Socialist”, or “fascist that is anti-Semitic”, or even “extreme right winger with short hair and swastika tattoos” to meaning “anybody opposed to Russia in any way”.
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So, in other words...they adopted Biden's position about anyone even remotely right of wingnut liberal.
 
I’m not surprised that western (NATO) intelligence and surveillance gave Ukraine the info needed to fight this war more effectively. I’m not upset that we are helping them kill high ranking Russian officers and sink that battleship. I don’t see what is served by bragging about it.
 
Russia's underperforming armed forces will be too spent by the Ukraine war (and, if they win, the nasty and costly occupation that will follow)... to credibly threaten moderately powerful nations like Poland, Sweden, even Finland or Romania. Plus Poland and Romania are in NATO. Moldova isn't much of a country, and they have one of those Russian-speaking separatist areas, so perhaps they might still be a target.

 
If Russia wanted to f with the US, in a smart way, they would have the FSB take out a GOP congressman (low level) in a way that was not overtly traceable to them (but clearly due to them). That would highlight Biden’s lack of working with Congress (per the Constitution and precedent) on this proxy war, and stir up political controversy.
 
Russia might want to rethink their tactics of sailing surface ships within striking range of those Ukrainian missiles. You don’t need to go to the Naval War College to figure that one out.
 
Chop said:
I’ve heard that too, but have never tried any. Could be their soil?
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I'm no expert but a smart person once told me that great wine is a match between the soil and the grape genetics. Of course some soils are better than others. But Moldova is supposedly where wine was first produced. They have had the time to perfect the match.
 
Nobody wants to click on Russia links- too much history of scams and hacks, and if an appeal to authority were a good argument (it’s not), that would not be a reputable authority. Summarize, please, and if it’s a good point there shouldn’t be a problem with you making it.
 
TaylorTRoom said:
Nobody wants to click on Russia links- too much history of scams and hacks, and if an appeal to authority were a good argument (it’s not), that would not be a reputable authority. Summarize, please, and if it’s a good point there shouldn’t be a problem with you making it.
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It’s a link to the UN website. Last I checked the United Nations wasn’t a Russian construct.

The link is a 2 hour presentation by the Russian ambassador showing video documentation from both citizens and independent journalists. To hear what they have to say you have to watch the presentation because the West won’t show it. “Disinformation” you know. Censorship is for your own good.
 
Does it claim that Russia is not the aggressor? That Russia isn’t shooting civilians and burying them in mass graves and Russian soldiers aren’t raping Ukrainian women?
 
TaylorTRoom said:
Does it claim that Russia is not the aggressor? That Russia isn’t shooting civilians and burying them in mass graves and Russian soldiers aren’t raping Ukrainian women?
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If that characterization is true, then the Russian military must be the most ignorant in world history. Think about it, The war is being fought almost exclusively in the pro-Russian regions of south and east Ukraine. Russia will surely annex these areas. Why would you randomly murder a largely pro-Russian population that you will incorporate into your nation?

Conversely, the anti-Russian neo-Nazi Azov group has been controlling Mariopal for the past seven or eight years. As they retreated into the city, they regarded the citizens as subhumans to be used as shields. Killing them was just ethnic cleansing justified as culling traitors. Watch the videos if you have the guts.
 
I think over 8 years the Ukrainian militias killed around 14,000 Russian speaking Ukrainians.

This is one reason of several that makes me want the US uninvolved. Russia is the aggressor and has been historically. Ukraine has been guilty of violence against some of their own citizens. They have also been corruptly working with Democrats and establishment Republicans. Russia and Ukraine are the 2 most corrupt cultures in Europe. The only way to stay uncorrupted is to separate yourself from the corruptness. Stay out and stay clean.
 
Musburger1 said:
If that characterization is true, then the Russian military must be the most ignorant in world history. Think about it, The war is being fought almost exclusively in the pro-Russian regions of south and east Ukraine. Russia will surely annex these areas. Why would you randomly murder a largely pro-Russian population that you will incorporate into your nation?

Conversely, the anti-Russian neo-Nazi Azov group has been controlling Mariopal for the past seven or eight years. As they retreated into the city, they regarded the citizens as subhumans to be used as shields. Killing them was just ethnic cleansing justified as culling traitors. Watch the videos if you have the guts.
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Yes, the Russian army is a very ****** army. The world has been amazed at just how crappy they have been.
It turns out that the eastern regions may speak Russian but don’t want to be Russian.
I can’t figure out if you’re a true believer dupe, or if you’re repeating RT talking points that you know are false (in other words, evil, for accusing the Ukrainian defenders of slaughtering their people).
You are not a serious poster. I’m ignoring you.
 
TTR
Mus confuses me. He actually is a very intelligent post and reasoned. i don't understand his love and obsession with Putin and Russia.
but he has always posted for them. In an intelligent way for years. Never disrespectful just consistent
If he is paid by Russia you would think they would pay him to be a sponsor
 
Monahorns said:
I think over 8 years the Ukrainian militias killed around 14,000 Russian speaking Ukrainians.

This is one reason of several that makes me want the US uninvolved. Russia is the aggressor and has been historically. Ukraine has been guilty of violence against some of their own citizens. They have also been corruptly working with Democrats and establishment Republicans. Russia and Ukraine are the 2 most corrupt cultures in Europe. The only way to stay uncorrupted is to separate yourself from the corruptness. Stay out and stay clean.
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I believe you are wrong in your statistics and overall characterization. According to this-

https://ukraine.un.org/sites/defaul... of 30 September 2021 (rev 8 Oct 2021) EN.pdf

From 2014-2021, almost 4,000 civilians have been killed in fighting between Ukraine military and Russia-backed militants. 80% of the deaths have happened in Russia controlled territory. Most of the deaths happened in2014, and since then open hostilities have cooled, at least wrt civilians.
Russians claim Ukraine is killing innocents, while the people on the ground say it is Russians. Russia also claims they and their proxies had nothing to do with shooting down MH-17, a claim nobody else in the world gives credence to (even though it would make life so much easier for all claimants if they could go after Ukraine for damages).
So much effort is required to carry water for Russia now, I can’t believe anyone is doing it by accident.
 
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