Ukraine updates

[Musburger1]

For Taylor, everything is black and white. US good. Russia bad. US military best ever. Russian military incompetent. Putin and all Russian government evil. Biden and all US government representing freedom and democracy. It helps him sleep better I think.

Horn6721, what are you confused about? I think Jesus said you can evaluate a tree by the quality of fruit it bears (I’m paraphrasing). Look at the actions taken by the US government since 9-11. Military fiasco after fiasco (don’t tell Taylor), unaccountable spending, endless lies, alien invasion, mass censorship, woke agendas. Forget Russia. Take a look in the mirror.

 

[Musburger1]

I believe you are wrong in your statistics and overall characterization. According to this-

https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2021-10/Conflict-related civilian casualties as of 30 September 2021 (rev 8 Oct 2021) EN.pdf

From 2014-2021, almost 4,000 civilians have been killed in fighting between Ukraine military and Russia-backed militants. 80% of the deaths have happened in Russia controlled territory. Most of the deaths happened in2014, and since then open hostilities have cooled, at least wrt civilians.
Russians claim Ukraine is killing innocents, while the people on the ground say it is Russians. Russia also claims they and their proxies had nothing to do with shooting down MH-17, a claim nobody else in the world gives credence to (even though it would make life so much easier for all claimants if they could go after Ukraine for damages).
So much effort is required to carry water for Russia now, I can’t believe anyone is doing it by accident.

Look at your source. That says it all.

 

[OUBubba]

For Taylor, everything is black and white. US good. Russia bad. US military best ever. Russian military incompetent. Putin and all Russian government evil. Biden and all US government representing freedom and democracy. It helps him sleep better I think.

Horn6721, what are you confused about? I think Jesus said you can evaluate a tree by the quality of fruit it bears (I’m paraphrasing). Look at the actions taken by the US government since 9-11. Military fiasco after fiasco (don’t tell Taylor), unaccountable spending, endless lies, alien invasion, mass censorship, woke agendas. Forget Russia. Take a look in the mirror.

You act like pre 9/11 it was all ozzy and Harriet. The west at least has some level of concern for civilians and their people. I’m not naive enough to think we are perfect. But, when compared to Russia we are ok.

A military comparison seems like comparing Alabama to Houston.

 

[Monahorns]

From 2014-2021, almost 4,000 civilians have been killed in fighting between Ukraine military and Russia-backed militants.

Good points. The 14,000 is total death in 8 years. I read you are correct on civilian deaths. I don't have the numbers but there are several instances where Ukrainian militia killed civilians in South and Eastern Ukraine. May main point holds. The best option for the US is to separate from both sides in order to keep out of the corruption. But I get it you want to get in the slop with the pigs.

Russians claim Ukraine is killing innocents, while the people on the ground say it is Russians. Russia also claims they and their proxies had nothing to do with shooting down MH-17, a claim nobody else in the world gives credence to (even though it would make life so much easier for all claimants if they could go after Ukraine for damages).

Not just Russians though. Journalists of different feathers say the same thing. If you want to reject Russian reporting that's fair, but Ukraine reporting is also biased.

I don't trust Russian reporting either. They lie and lie and lie. But there is reporting out there independent of them that is reliable.

So much effort is required to carry water for Russia now, I can’t believe anyone is doing it by accident.

This is the stuff that infuriates me. Please try to think outside of what the corporate news says. They have been caught in lie after lie as well. I don't know get anyone who thinks they are covering for the Left on everything except this issue.

 

[Monahorns]

The US in purposefully standing in the way of negotiation for the benefit of themselves. This doesn't benefit Ukraine. It doesn't even benefit the surrounding countries. It doesn't even benefit the American people. It benefits the US regime that subverts justice domestically, calls for harassing Supreme Court Justices, grooming kids for sexual perversion, and supports killing babies without limit.

You can support your enemies working for your own defeat. I will call out my political enemies for the evil they do and oppose them. Extending this war kills civilians, will leave to starvation around the world, spends our money, and hurts Americans.

 

[Monahorns]

You act like pre 9/11 it was all ozzy and Harriet. The west at least has some level of concern for civilians and their people. I’m not naive enough to think we are perfect. But, when compared to Russia we are ok.

Bubba, that's not the point. Russia is the most corrupt country in Europe. Putin is an authoritarian. But none of that means the US should be spending money and Ukrainian lives on a war that doesn't benefit Americans. Ukraine is fighting a just war of defense. I understand supporting them on some level. But risking escalating the war to nukes is foolish. Acting like the American people are responsible for the defense of Ukraine is abusive. Ukraine would already be negotiating for peace if it wasn't for the US/UK. That means more death, more destruction, more long term harm around the world. Sounds bad to me.

 

[TaylorTRoom]

Monahorn, who is “martyrmade”? What are the sources for that report?

I don’t believe any media just because I trust them. I read reporting and look for sources and consistent logic. When a report is attributed to a “high ranked source in such and such department”, that means something. When public source data is quoted, in support of an argument, that means something.

 

[Monahorns]

Monahorn, who is “martyrmade”? What are the sources for that report?

You need to look into that. You can answer that question for yourself. But one thing I can tell you is that he is a military man.

The source is the UP, United Press, if you track it back all the way.

I don’t believe any media just because I trust them. I read reporting and look for sources and consistent logic. When a report is attributed to a “high ranked source in such and such department”, that means something. When public source data is quoted, in support of an argument, that means something.

A high ranked source in a government department. Ha ha ha ha. Like the leader of the Disinformation Governance Board? Or the FBI who dishonestly prosecuted Trump? Or the CIA which has lied to Americans since they were founded? MK Ultra. Operation Paperclip. John Brennan saying they aren't spying on Americans. You believe Fauci? You believe Biden? They are highly ranked. Do you believe that Rachel Levine is the first woman Admiral in the Navy? Are you are Leftist? My assumption was different.

 

[Musburger1]

When a report is attributed to a “high ranked source in such and such department”, that means something.

Like Clapper? Brennan? Schiff? Powell? The MSM anchor? Anyone wearing a USA lapel? What a lemming. Follow me off this cliff Taylor. Yes sir.

 

[TaylorTRoom]

I am very much a free speech absolutist. I hate the word “gaslighting” because I believe the solution for false speech, disinformation, propaganda is true speech supported by objective data and strong reasoning and rhetoric. “Gaslighting” implies the listener is a victim, helpless unless aided by an authority.
It is a myth of modern American journalism that any news source is impartial. All news sources have biases; every nation outside the US recognizes this (in many free western nations, major newspaper are owned by political parties). In the US, this means that when an AQ affiliate attacks a US diplomatic mission in Libya on 9-11-2012 and kidnaps and kills the ambassador, 10 hours after the incumbent president gave a speech extolling his victory over AQ, a friendly media reports the attack as a random mob, perhaps stirred up by GOP initiatives. This did not cancel the truth- rational people could figure out what happened based entirely on the reporting that did come out- they just had to find alternate public media to discuss it.
That is life in this modern, free society. You have to use critical reasoning skills to weigh alternate claims about actual events. There are no pure, selfless heroes in public life, but there are good ideas- government by consent, inalienable rights, rule of law. I am unashamed to say I root for the nations that best reflect those ideas (even if imperfectly) over those that don’t.
(Here is a pro tip- the nations that have the same guy in charge for over 20 years are the ones that tend to be autocracies. Yes, I know that includes NATO member Turkey. No, that doesn’t include the UK; she’s a figure head).
My beef with Musburger has never been about his criticism of the US. I often am disgusted by our leadership and the am alarmed by the increasing ties between government, financial markets and technology industry. I pray that we find our way back, learning from the wisdom of the 18th century Scot philosophers and rejecting the lunatic dreams of the 19th century German and English philosophers.
No, my beef with Mus was always about his fan boy love of Putin and Russia, and his parroting of the ridiculous lies and claims the Russians generate to provide cover and deniability for their state murders and other crimes. How you go from rejecting the US flawed implementation of Locke, Smith and Hume for lack of ideological purity to accepting the two bit dictatorship of Vlad Putin (which is more and more looking like Nazi Germany minus the anti Semitism, technical capability, and military culture) is beyond me. He rejects the US for its lack of public transparency in government and instead propose the model of poor government that is Russia as a counter example? That was insane, until his Putin defense had to start accusing Ukraine of slaughtering its own people, at which point it became disgusting to anyone with real empathy for the real lives needlessly lost.

 

[Musburger1]

I am very much a free speech absolutist. I hate the word “gaslighting” because I believe the solution for false speech, disinformation, propaganda is true speech supported by objective data and strong reasoning and rhetoric. “Gaslighting” implies the listener is a victim, helpless unless aided by an authority.
It is a myth of modern American journalism that any news source is impartial. All news sources have biases; every nation outside the US recognizes this (in many free western nations, major newspaper are owned by political parties). In the US, this means that when an AQ affiliate attacks a US diplomatic mission in Libya on 9-11-2012 and kidnaps and kills the ambassador, 10 hours after the incumbent president gave a speech extolling his victory over AQ, a friendly media reports the attack as a random mob, perhaps stirred up by GOP initiatives. This did not cancel the truth- rational people could figure out what happened based entirely on the reporting that did come out- they just had to find alternate public media to discuss it.
That is life in this modern, free society. You have to use critical reasoning skills to weigh alternate claims about actual events. There are no pure, selfless heroes in public life, but there are good ideas- government by consent, inalienable rights, rule of law. I am unashamed to say I root for the nations that best reflect those ideas (even if imperfectly) over those that don’t.
(Here is a pro tip- the nations that have the same guy in charge for over 20 years are the ones that tend to be autocracies. Yes, I know that includes NATO member Turkey. No, that doesn’t include the UK; she’s a figure head).
My beef with Musburger has never been about his criticism of the US. I often am disgusted by our leadership and the am alarmed by the increasing ties between government, financial markets and technology industry. I pray that we find our way back, learning from the wisdom of the 18th century Scot philosophers and rejecting the lunatic dreams of the 19th century German and English philosophers.
No, my beef with Mus was always about his fan boy love of Putin and Russia, and his parroting of the ridiculous lies and claims the Russians generate to provide cover and deniability for their state murders and other crimes. How you go from rejecting the US flawed implementation of Locke, Smith and Hume for lack of ideological purity to accepting the two bit dictatorship of Vlad Putin (which is more and more looking like Nazi Germany minus the anti Semitism, technical capability, and military culture) is beyond me.

That might be the most lucent thing you’ve posted in some time. Congratulations. But you still have major misconceptions.

One major difference between Russia and Nazi Germany is that the former was expansionist. “Oh, but Russia seized Crimea, and now they’ve invaded Ukraine.”

For more than a decade Russia warned there would be war with Ukraine if NATO continued expanding east. Since 2014 the US has armed, trained, and planned with Nazi ideologists to regain Crimea and subjugate Donetsk and Lugansk. Putin offered a diplomatic solution in Minsk II that was signed by Ukraine but never honored. The US instigated this war, continues to escalate, and now the whole world is paying the price.

 

[Mr. Deez]

I'm in London today, and this was happening at the Tower Bridge. Putin may as well quit now with this kind of righteousness and virtue signaling on the other side. He has no chance. (Credit where it's due, she does have an impressive derriere.)

 

[OUBubba]

Like Clapper? Brennan? Schiff? Powell? The MSM anchor? Anyone wearing a USA lapel? What a lemming. Follow me off this cliff Taylor. Yes sir.

Whoaa. Brennan is in Gitmo awaiting his hanging. I think AC went to "pick up a weapon and stand a post".

 

[OUBubba]

That might be the most lucent thing you’ve posted in some time. Congratulations. But you still have major misconceptions.

One major difference between Russia and Nazi Germany is that the former was expansionist. “Oh, but Russia seized Crimea, and now they’ve invaded Ukraine.”

For more than a decade Russia warned there would be war with Ukraine if NATO continued expanding east. Since 2014 the US has armed, trained, and planned with Nazi ideologists to regain Crimea and subjugate Donetsk and Lugansk. Putin offered a diplomatic solution in Minsk II that was signed by Ukraine but never honored. The US instigated this war, continues to escalate, and now the whole world is paying the price.

You lost reasonable people when you dropped the "Nazi" reference. I know it's in your talking points but come on.

To the point, I heard about a woman who's living in a subway because her home was blown up. She called her mother in Russia to tell her that she's OK but that the Russians had destroyed her house in an air strike. She did not believe her and said that the Russians were there to take out the Nazis and that the Nazis must have destroyed her house. SMH.

 

[guy4321]

Ukraine would already be negotiating for peace if it wasn't for the US/UK.

Wouldn't that first part mostly be Ukraine saying you can have whatever part you want? Then is the next step Russia moving into another country?

 

[Musburger1]

You lost reasonable people when you dropped the "Nazi" reference. I know it's in your talking points but come on.

To the point, I heard about a woman who's living in a subway because her home was blown up. She called her mother in Russia to tell her that she's OK but that the Russians had destroyed her house in an air strike. She did not believe her and said that the Russians were there to take out the Nazis and that the Nazis must have destroyed her house. SMH.

Are you saying that there was no such thing as Nazi Germany? I guess everything we were taught about WSII was a lie. Germany was never governed by Nazis. So much for Okie schools.

 

[Musburger1]

Wouldn't that first part mostly be Ukraine saying you can have whatever part you want? Then is the next step Russia moving into another country?

With each week that passes, Ukraine has less to negotiate. Eventually they lose Odessa. Ukraine is entering a lend-lease program that will in essence make them a total vassal to the US (assuming Ukraine still exists once this ends) not to mention the loss of life and infrastructure that could have been avoided; but the US agenda was never to save Ukraine (that’s for public consumption); the goal is to overthrow Putin and destroy Russia. For freedom of course.

 

[Monahorns]

Wouldn't that first part mostly be Ukraine saying you can have whatever part you want? Then is the next step Russia moving into another country?

No and No.

 

[OUBubba]

Are you saying that there was no such thing as Nazi Germany? I guess everything we were taught about WSII was a lie. Germany was never governed by Nazis. So much for Okie schools.

Well done. There are nazi sempathizers. There are surely some in Russia, Ukraine, the US, etc. To say that the Ukrainian government is being run by Nazis is insanity. To say (as Lavrov did) that Hitler had Jewish blood in his commentary about Ukraine is nuts. They're running the straight "the smeller is the feller" routine.

 

[Musburger1]

Well done. There are nazi sempathizers. There are surely some in Russia, Ukraine, the US, etc. To say that the Ukrainian government is being run by Nazis is insanity. To say (as Lavrov did) that Hitler had Jewish blood in his commentary about Ukraine is nuts. They're running the straight "the smeller is the feller" routine.

This is where you have it right and where you have it wrong. There are Nazi sympathizers in the Ukraine, in Russia, and in the US. They are a minority in each case. In Russia and the US, they don’t control the government (except in the mind of Jan 6th paranoid leftists) and the military. In Ukraine they do. No, they aren’t elected in Ukraine, but the politicians fear them and do what they are told. Ditto the media. Bribes, kidnapping, and murder isn’t uncommon. The western press was filled with stories about their influence up until about 2018 or so. Then the reporting just vanished.

 

[Musburger1]

Assets, particularly stocks and crypto, continue to sell off as the federal reserve moves to pop the bubbles it created. So we see deflation in some assets. As this continues, home prices will eventually contract and with that, a sharp recession triggered by a collapse in construction which has been booming in many areas. Will it cure inflation? Of course not. The global supply chains, diesel shortage, and coming food shortages will keep pinching consumers. Our planned economy is in trouble. Go Brandon!

 

[Mr. Deez]

I think my ballet dancer picture with the ***-glimpse isn't getting its due respect.

 

[Garmel]

I think my ballet dancer picture with the ***-glimpse isn't getting its due respect.

Can't see much.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Can't see much.

You're getting greedy. Try taking a picture in a busy place like that without looking creepy. And I saw her rear end after I walked past even if I couldn't photograph it. It was a marvel of nature. Just have faith based on the glimpse.

 

[nashhorn]

Should have posted a video.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Should have posted a video.

Lol. It's one of the biggest tourist attractions in the world. I would have looked like a child molester.

 

[Musburger1]

I think my ballet dancer picture with the ***-glimpse isn't getting its due respect.

The shoes stand out. I wonder if the class has a dance where all the girls and gays (there’s always at least one fella) display the Ukraine flag in some kind of show of virtuous solidarity?

 

[guy4321]

No and No.

Alright. I think it's yes and yes, and suspect that's what world leaders think.

 

[Mr. Deez]

The shoes stand out. I wonder if the class has a dance where all the girls and gays (there’s always at least one fella) display the Ukraine flag in some kind of show of virtuous solidarity?

Just one?

 

[Monahorns]

Alright. I think it's yes and yes, and suspect that's what world leaders think.

Okay. The same people who have been wrong on every issue at least over the last 3 years.