UK may vote to leave the European Union

Triggered

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I've been to Gilbralter. Cannot be taken. 360 degree opportunity to shoot at enemy ships unobstructed while hold up in a rock. Land bridge is essentially a killing field for an invading army.
 
This story is absurd. Gibraltar is going to be part of the UK, and Spain won't take military action.
 
Joe Fan said:


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Honestly, letting current EU citizens stay in the UK is probably an area where compromise could be reached. Letting their families stay forever is probably out if the question, but letting the actual workers stay at least for a limited time would probably fly with Nigel, I mean Prime Minister May.
 
Theresa May's gamble to increase the Tories power in the election to bolster her Brexit negotiation appears to have blown up in her face. Exit polls (which are less accurate in Britain than the US) are showing that the conservatives will lose lose their 326 seat majority status. Should this happen Britain will have a "hung parliament" which will greatly weaken the conservatives' power.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Theresa May's gamble to increase the Tories power in the election to bolster her Brexit negotiation appears to have blown up in her face. Exit polls (which are less accurate in Britain than the US) are showing that the conservatives will lose lose their 326 seat majority status. Should this happen Britain will have a "hung parliament" which will greatly weaken the conservatives' power.
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Yeah, I really didn't understand this move. They already had a strong majority. Why risk it?
 
It is still early, but the BBC is saying the SNP took a hit in Scotland over wanting to have a second scottish independence referendum. Will be interesting to see if that holds true. Also, a hung parliament is not what the UK needs in the middle of Brexit and terror attack chaos.
 
The Scottish nationalists lost a combined 21 seats to the three major parties. They still have a strong majority with 35 of 59 seats in Scotland, but they previously had 56 out of 59. The winners also had fewer votes than before. The message is clear that a second Scottish independence referendum to join the EU would be risky and may not have majority support in Scotland. SNP leader Sturgeon also admitted she thinks the push for a second referendum was a factor in their election losses.
 
On the losses by the conservatives, I think the critics may be right and the losses were due to the unpopularity of May and not the party in general. I am okay with May, but Ive noticed that her handling of Brexit and the terror attacks does not seem to have been well received by any of the sides in the UK. She also apparently lost her debate with Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn. Her critics may be right that someone else in the Conservative Party may need to serve as prime minister or they risk suffering more losses on the next election. Like I said, I am okay with May and hope she successfully negotiates a fair Brexit.
 
Mr. Deez said:
Yeah, I really didn't understand this move. They already had a strong majority. Why risk it?
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Mother Theresa clearly wet bed with that decision. She could have waited another 3 years. I guess she got cocky.

Apparently young Brits turned out in record numbers & voted heavily for the socialists.
 
I had to fly to Dallas in short notice for a funeral, so I haven't had a chance to really mull over this election. However, after looking at the results, I'm not so sure that this is as big of a victory for the EU as many suggest. Obviously, the EU did better than if the Tories (or especially UKIP) picked up a bunch of seats. However, consider who else gained and lost seats.

Labour was obviously the big winner, but it was under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership. Corbyn isn't a globalist liberal like Tony Blair or Ed Milliband. He's part of the hard Left, which is almost as Eurosceptic as the hard Right. (They view the EU as a protector of established corporate interests, which it basically is.) He opposed Brexit but extremely tepidly. In fact, he got a lot of blame for Remain's failure. Most don't believe his opposition was sincere, and I'd bet my left arm that he voted for Brexit.

And besides the Tories, who lost? The Scottish National Party. The SNP is somewhat deceptively named. They favor Scottish independence but not to restore their sovereignty but to surrender it to the EU and adopt the Euro. They also favor having another Scottish independence referendum, which the voters obviously rejected.

So obviously this was a terrible election for the Tories in general and May in particular. However, I'd be more willing to call it a big win for the EU if some of the winners actually liked the EU.
 
This seems to be a common refrain among the "Vote Leave" crowd for Brexit.

I'm sure the Independent is putting a liberal bias on this but the Cummings' quotes are telling.

Brexit: Vote Leave chief who created £350m NHS claim on bus admits leaving EU could be 'an error'
Dominic Cummings also described the referendum as a 'dumb idea' - shaping up to be a 'guaranteed debacle'
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14-year-old school girl arrested for 'racism' because she asked her teacher for a lab partner who spoke English.


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Seattle Husker said:
This seems to be a common refrain among the "Vote Leave" crowd for Brexit.

I'm sure the Independent is putting a liberal bias on this but the Cummings' quotes are telling.
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BBC gave a fairer (at least relatively speaking) version of his comments. Link. Basically he said that there are things that could happen or not happen that would make him regret Brexit. That's very different from an unqualified regret about Brexit in general, which is what the headline hints at. In context, his real complaint is how May is handling the Brexit negotiations. Basically he thinks she's going to screw it up, and based on how she has handled herself since becoming PM, he has a point. If I lived in the UK, I wouldn't have a lot of confidence in her leadership or her ability to negotiate a good deal for them.

As for the £350 million claim that the article leads with even though it has nothing to do with the story being reported on, both sides made questionable claims. Both Leaving and Remaining had pros and cons and winners and losers, and both tried to make it look like their side only had pros and winners and the other side only had cons and losers. It's sad, but that's the nature of politics today in the UK, the US, and all over the world. "I'm the Messiah who will make everything perfect, and my opponent is Satan who will destroy everything" is basically the theme of modern politics.

I don't mind holding those who make dubious claims accountable, so long as we're consistent. In other words, when the Independent does a story that discusses a David Cameron, do they lead with, "Former PM Mr. Cameron, who falsely promised immediate economic Armageddon in the wake of Brexit, was seen at a football match in Manchester today. . .?" I doubt that they do.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Surprise! The Internet Research Agency (aka Russian Troll Army) heavily pushed Pro-Brexit messages on the day of the referendum.
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It's not surprising. When people are polarized, I think it's hard for them to see this, but there are good reasons to dislike the EU (and just about everything) and bad reasons. It's no secret that Putin dislikes the EU and dislikes it for bad reasons.
 
Joe Fan said:
Finexit next?

"Finland election brings NEW threat to EU: The Brexit-backing Farage fan vying for Finexit. A FINLAND election candidate is using Nigel Farage’s Brexit example as a blueprint for her own plans to pull her country out of the EU."

https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...-Huhtasaari-brexit-finns-party-eu-immigration

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The problem is that she doesn't have a particularly good villain. Sauli Niinistö (the incumbent) has been openly critical of EU policy on migrants, and though he's not going to back leaving the EU, he's one of the more sensible European leaders. You can do a hell of a lot worse, and 90 percent of Europe has.

Certainly by politician standards, she's cute though. I'll give her that.
 
It's not quite like the Brexit vote, but Italy just slapped down the EU. The results leave great ambiguity as to who will ultimately be in charge, but most Italian voters backed Eurosceptic parties and candidates. Link. There's majority agreement that the EU sucks.
 
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