Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Nothing personal but I am on the protestors side
UK may vote to leave the European Union
- Thread starter Mr. Deez
- Start date
Nothing personal but I am on the protestors side
I don't take it personally. We're always told to stay away from political protests whether they're for a good cause or bad one. The reason is that European protests often get violent. If they're going to go the trouble of putting down their wine or lattes to protest, they're really pissed off and ready to fight. They aren't there to play around.
Personally, I don't condone these people starting fires, but I sympathize with their cause. France raised its diesel tax by €.076 per liter and then raised it again by €.065. That's like raising the gas tax by $.33 per gallon and then following it up by another $.28 per gallon. And of course, France is doing it for environmental reasons. These people are pissed for good reason.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Quite a few US soldiers in Europe were killed by leftists in the 1970s and 80s
Yeah, they know damned good and well the environment isn't going to change one tiny little bit because of this tax hike. They really ought to simply "Mussolini" all the bureaucrats involved.
And if I lived anywhere near Germany, Belgium, Italy, or even Switzerland, I'd leave the country to fill up. Fuel definitely isn't cheap in those countries, but I doubt it's as pricey after these tax hikes.
Frankly, if the Right had any brains, they'd use these riots and the reasons for them to counter the climate change talk. As the issue is currently framed, people basically haggle over whether you "believe in climate change" or if you're a "denier" and therefore, a science-hating idiot. Instead of letting that kind of superficial stupidity drive the debate, they should direct attention to the climate change agenda (which is virtually never discussed) and its costs. Point to what European countries are dealing with - outrageously expensive energy and obscene fuel taxes. If the people choose that, then so be it, but don't let the issue get settled on stupid pissing matches about who likes science and who doesn't.
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Most Libertarians are reasonable if you can keep them from talking about foreign policy. They can also get nutty on drug laws - not because they support legalization but because they are just a bit too enthusiastic about it at times. Lol.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Something called the "European Court of Justice" is attempting to give May an out. It just issued an advisory opinion saying May would be allowed to legally reverse the triggering of Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty - a decision that would effectively reverse the Brexit process. Can read it here if interested. This one is better organized than many ZH articles
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
I just thought it was funny
In any event, the UK Leadership Contest has been triggered with the minimum threshold of 15% of the Conservative Parliamentary Party.
However, the markets think she has it covered
The people voted for Brexit. Period.
They did, but some of them thought that leaving wouldn't have any meaningful downsides. If they can remain in the EU's free trade area, then great. However, if they can't reach a deal, that's not going to happen. And that will definitely impact the UK. Furthermore, Trump claimed that the US would make a free trade deal with the UK within 90 days of taking office. That would have softened the blow significantly, but obviously that didn't happen.
I still think they should leave. Regaining one's sovereignty usually requires war and bloodshed. A less than ideal trade arrangement (for awhile at least) is pretty tame by comparison. However, it is a meaningful economic cost that they will have to adjust to.
The UK kept the pound. Compromises were clearly made there. You dont need to be in the EU to have trade agreements and immigration programs. This is all a dog and pony show.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
Basically the EU is fighting tooth and nail to keep the UK. If they leave the template is set for others to. They can't allow UK to leave and remain in the free trade area. If so the EU allows countries to trade without having any political power. That would be an excellent set up for the Continent but it would end the power of bureaucrats in Brussels. Typical of bureaucrats, priority number one is keeping and growing their own power.
You are correct. However, the dynamic is different here. If the EU readily gives the UK a favorable trade agreement, then nobody will want to stay in the EU. It's not a particularly popular institution right now and is an easy target. The EU's leaders act like dicks, which doesn't help. In addition, people are starting to figure out that the EU often operates as a mechanism for huge German companies to kick the hell out of the rest of the continent. They really can't afford to give anyone an easy out.
Yep. And that's what's sad. If they had just left the EU as a free trade area and left the busybody regulators and virtue signalers out of the equation, it could have been a great institution.
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