The Media Industry

[Joe Fan]

.....My point was that Obama defeated Romney in the Electoral college by 126 electors. It was both a challenge to some mystical claim of a "mandate" due to the EC win and/or demonstrating HRC is has close to a 3 million popular vote lead.

The clearest argument to rebut the idea of a mandate for Obama in his second midterm is the numbers in the House. If he really did have a mandate, it was taken back pretty quick.
(I would argue that he had more of a bad opponent who was fighting a biased media then he had a mandate)

 

[Joe Fan]

Actually what Trump said was he would likely win the popular vote if all the illegal votes were taken out.
Please notice he did not say illegal aliens votes just illegal votes....

OK, i was going by memory and didnt pay much attention to that at the time

 

[Joe Fan]

Detailed reports from the office of Wayne County Clerk Cathy Garrett show optical scanners at 248 of the city’s 662 precincts, or 37 percent, tabulated more ballots than the number of voters tallied by workers in the poll books. Voting irregularities in Detroit have spurred plans for an audit by Michigan Secretary of State Ruth Johnson’s office, Elections Director Chris Thomas said Monday."

I already wrote about this
With a cite
They just ignored it
Although I am not certain if it was this thread?

 

[Seattle Husker]

"Please supply the evidence."
Here
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...cords-many-votes-detroits-precincts/95363314/
"Voting machines in more than one-third of all Detroit precincts registered more votes than they should have during last month’s presidential election, according to Wayne County records prepared at the request of The Detroit News.

Detailed reports from the office of Wayne County Clerk Cathy Garrett show optical scanners at 248 of the city’s 662 precincts, or 37 percent, tabulated more ballots than the number of voters tallied by workers in the poll books. Voting irregularities in Detroit have spurred plans for an audit by Michigan Secretary of State Ruth Johnson’s office, Elections Director Chris Thomas said Monday."

But hey I am sure it is just human error.

LOL! You don't even bother to read the much more likely reasons for the discrepancies before jumping to mammoth conspiracy theories.

From the article...their optical scanners suck which is that really a surprise in Detroit?

Who’s responsible for errors?

Last week, Baxter told The News 87 optical scanners broke on Election Day. He said many jammed when voters tried repeatedly to stuff single ballots into scanners, which can result in erroneous vote counts if poll workers don’t adjust counters.

Former Detroit mayoral candidate Tom Barrow, who has challenged the city’s elections process for years, said blaming workers is a cop-out. According to city protocol, all precincts are supposed to be balanced when the ballot boxes are sealed at the end of the night, he said.

“The city is responsible. Janice Winfrey is responsible,” Barrow said. “This didn’t happen because of crazy, dyslexic senior citizens who are working as poll workers, like they want to portray this. That’s people who are trying to deny responsibility.”

He has asserted on social media that Winfrey cost Clinton the election in Michigan.

Others said there could be benign explanations.

Detroit’s ballot was two pages because it included dozens of candidates for the local Board of Education. The number of pages can cause machines to jam and lead them to count too many ballots, said Genesee County Clerk John Gleason.

“Usually, if there’s a problem, it tends to be more voters than votes,” he said. “But when we’re off, we should be very, very close, like one ballot.”

Genesee County, which like Wayne County is heavily Democratic, couldn’t recount 14 of the 142 precincts it had started before the court scuttled the process. Gleason took office in 2013 and said he had to “ride herd” over city clerks to ensure they reconciled precincts.

“Nothing is perfect. You have paper. You have humidity. You have people hanging onto ballots,” Gleason said.

“So there’s reasons, but there should be no excuses.”

 

[Horn6721]

JF
The haters will just say it was human error a WHOLE lot of human error.

 

[Horn6721]

SEE lol

 

[Seattle Husker]

The clearest argument to rebut the idea of a mandate for Obama in his second midterm is the numbers in the House. If he really did have a mandate, it was taken back pretty quick.
(I would argue that he had more of a bad opponent who was fighting a biased media then he had a mandate)

I've never claimed any Obama mandate. I think that terms is overused.

 

[Seattle Husker]

SEE lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

I'll never understand the "jump to a conspiracy" crowd. It smacks of ignorance.

 

[I35]

Let's keep this on the down-low, please.

LOL

From the article...their optical scanners suck which is that really a surprise in Detroit?

It's a amazing how the optical scanner sucks for Trump, but helps out Hillary.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Here is a Director of Elections regarding the State audit.

“We don’t have any suspicion of fraud. We generally approach this as human error," Thomas said. "We’re going to take a look at them to make sure there’s not a need for further explanations. And we'll be talking with Detroit staff as well going forward."

 

[Seattle Husker]

It's a amazing how the optical scanner sucks for Trump, but helps out Hillary.

This board spent months talking about how dysfunctional Detroit is and you think they suddenly know how to run a error free election?

 

[I35]

This board spent months talking about how dysfunctional Detroit is and you think they suddenly know how to run a error free election?

You were addressing the optical scanner. I just think it's funny that the scanner can be bias. It couldn't have been a human in Detroit shoving the ballots through the scanner multiple times when they had a vote for Hillary in their hand could it?

 

[Seattle Husker]

You were addressing the optical scanner. I just think it's funny that the scanner can be bias. It couldn't have been a human in Detroit shoving the ballots through the scanner multiple times when they had a vote for Hillary in their hand could it?

Did anyone say the scanner was biased? Given the demography of Detroit and what we know of AA support for HRC vs. Trump shouldn't you expect an HRC landslide? HRC tended to dominate urban districts nationwide while Trump dominated rural districts.

 

[I35]

Did anyone say the scanner was biased?

Scanner = Not human
Putting votes into the scanner multiple = Human

So you agree? CNN is reporting that its the none human scanner that was the problem.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Scanner = Not human
Putting votes into the scanner multiple = Human

So you agree? CNN is reporting that its the none human scanner that was the problem.

Hand a scanner to your grandma and see how successful she is in using it.

 

[Joe Fan]

Conditions are ripe for overreach yet again.

Maybe. Have the Rs maxed out? Is this it? One of the biggest, if not the biggest, factor will be Trump's performance, or at least the perception of his performance. I have drawn the Reagan analogy here since Day One. Back in the early 80s, the Dems and the media bashed Reagan every single day (sound familiar?). But it did not work because Reagan turned the US machine around (which was left in shambles by Carter (and Nixon even)). Twenty years later, they all offered nothing but praise for Reagan, as if they had all along. Will this repeat?

There are, of course, other factors. Let me give you one example. Polling of Dems say 57% want a candidate under 60, and 77% want one under 70. As of today, the Dems leaders are Joe Biden at 31%, Bernie at 24% and Liz Warren at 16%. http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/...lings-on-2020-field.html?mod=djemBestOfTheWeb

On Election Day 2020, Biden will be 77, Bernie 79 and Warren will be a spring chicken at 71. So, it is not and will not be all about Trump. The Dems have to put something and someone forward as well. As I have argued here, I hope they just keep doing what they have been doing.

 

[Horn6721]

Husker
Read the article. Each precinct is supposed to be balanced Before the boxes are sealed. Why were the errors not caught and reconciled before they were sealed?
And 60% of precincts in Detroit could not be recounted due to discrepancies. 2/3 of those precincts had too many votes

. That is a lot of human error.
There is an ocam s razor at work here. Still think it is merely human error in all 420 precincts with known errors ?

 

[Seattle Husker]

There is an ocam s razor at work here. Still think it is merely human error in all 420 precincts with known errors ?

Conspiracy or incompetence? Imagine trying to coordinate a conspiracy across 420 precincts. Now imagine the type of person that might be a precinct election captain in Detroit. Occam's Razor.

 

[Horn6721]

Husker
There is no doubt who Detroit Dem precinct captains were supporting. I doubt if there were GOP captains in every precinct in Detroit.
Not sure what your point is.Do you understand what a precinct captain does?

 

[Seattle Husker]

Husker
There is no doubt who Detroit Dem precinct captains were supporting. I doubt if there were GOP captains in every precinct in Detroit.
Not sure what your point is.Do you understand what a precinct captain does?

Scenario 1: Hundreds of precinct captains purposely tried to give HRC more votes than earned and leveraged the volunteers as accomplices. Throughout the conspiracy hundreds of volunteers chose to not be whistleblowers.

Scenario 2: A 3 stooges scenario. Volunteers are ill trained, scanners are less than reliable and discipline to balance the voting register with the vote tabulation missing.

Which scenario is more likely to occur? Occam's Razor.

 

[Horn6721]

Husker?
Where so you get this crap?
YOU brought up precinct captains not me
Explain how you think precinct captain could manipulate the vote
Nothing ,Nothing I wrote even hints I think that
I do not think you know what precinct captains are or what they do

 

[NJlonghorn]

Scenario 1: Hundreds of precinct captains purposely tried to give HRC more votes than earned and leveraged the volunteers as accomplices. Throughout the conspiracy hundreds of volunteers chose to not be whistleblowers.

Scenario 2: A 3 stooges scenario. Volunteers are ill trained, scanners are less than reliable and discipline to balance the voting register with the vote tabulation missing.

Which scenario is more likely to occur? Occam's Razor.

I think it is a very serious problem when votes are miscounted, so I support doing what is necessary to implement a fix. I'm glad the state of Michigan is looking into this.

That said, I agree with @Seattle Husker's conclusion that this seems more likely to be the result of incompetence and sloth than fraud. The worst precinct was off by a total of 5 votes, and most were off by well less than that, with 1 being the most common discrepancy. Here's my earlier post on the topic in a different thread, with a link providing backup.

At the time of my prior post, I didn't know whether the discrepancies were high, low, or a mix. I have since learned (on this thread, I think, but can't find it at the moment) that it was a mix, about 2-1 in favor of over-votes. However, it was probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 overvotes. Even if you operate on the overly generous assumption that 100% of the overvotes were for Clinton, this is hardly the stuff of a massive conspiracy.

By the way, here's how I guesstimate 500 overvotes -- 400ish precincts have overvotes and 200ish precincts have undervotes. Wash the 200 out against each other, leaving a net of 200 precincts with overvotes. With the overvotes ranging from 1 to 5 votes, but with 1 being the most common, I pegged the mean at around 2.5 per precinct, or 500 total. (If anyone has seen anything more concrete than this, I'd love to see it. I readily admit that I'm just guessing/guesstimating).

 

[iatrogenic]

City Clerk Janice Winfrey: Janice Winfrey was a 2016 Democratic candidate who sought election to the U.S. House to represent the 13th Congressional District of Michigan

Elections Director Daniel Baxter

City Clerk Janice Winfrey and Elections Director Daniel Baxter did not return multiple messages.

The Detroit News last week was first to report that more than half of Detroit would be ineligible for the recount because of the irregularities. The results were based on county reports obtained by The News.

The Detroit News first reported Monday that 59 percent precincts in Detroit could be disqualified from the recount because the number of ballots in secured boxes doesn’t match the number of ballots in the poll book.

The Wayne County clerk's office reported that only 236 of Detroit's 662 voting precincts had ballot totals and registration records that matched.

It looks like Jill Stein's recount will actually help solve some problems, albeit not the ones she wanted to solve.

 

[iatrogenic]

The worst precinct was off by a total of 5 votes

Not quite. One ballot box had 360 votes and 50 ballots. The reports state "5 or more", not 5.

They're not fooling anyone. This is fraud, pure and simple, and fraud is the reason Democrats don't want voter ID laws.

 

[Horn6721]

Reading comprehension can get in the way of an attempt to distort facts.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Husker?
Where so you get this crap?
YOU brought up precinct captains not me
Explain how you think precinct captain could manipulate the vote
Nothing ,Nothing I wrote even hints I think that
I do not think you know what precinct captains are or what they do

You mentioned the volume of ~420 precincts. If not the Precinct Captains who then is involved in this vast conspiracy that nobody but the alt-right is claiming? I offered up State election officials' quote as evidence they don't suspect foul play but rather human/technology error.

So, if you don't think the leaders of these Precincts were involved, then who? Sorry, not the Precinct Captain but volunteers in the polling/vote tabulation stations. Who?

 

[Horn6721]

Well Husker
A starting place would for be, for instance, whoever signed off on sealing a box reporting over 300 votes but with just 50 ballots in the box. How did the election official ( Not a precinct captain btw) miss such a gap between the votes they were reporting and the number of ballots in the box?
Or any other of the 59% in Detroit alone with discrepancies?

 

[Seattle Husker]

Well Husker
A starting place would for be, for instance, whoever signed off on sealing a box reporting over 300 votes but with just 50 ballots in the box. How did the election official ( Not a precinct captain btw) miss such a gap between the votes they were reporting and the number of ballots in the box?
Or any other of the 59% in Detroit alone with discrepancies?

To be clear, 10.6% of all of Michigan's precincts had the problem with the voting logs didn't match the ballots. The problem occurred in nearly 60% of Detroit's precincts. So, the problem is too common across the state.

For the specific edge case you mentioned this was the reason given. Occam's Razor.

City officials have told state officials that ballots in that precinct were never taken out of a locked bin below the voting machine tabulator on Election Day, said Secretary of State spokesman Fred Woodhams.

“That’s what we’ve been told, and we’ll be wanting to verify it,” Woodhams said. “At any rate, this should not have happened.”[/.quote]

 

[Seattle Husker]

This should be fun. Facebook is altering it's platform to account for "fake news".

Articles that are known to be false -- seemingly published with the intent to trick people -- will be marked with what Facebook is calling a "flag."

Below the headline there will be a red label that says "disputed by 3rd Party Fact-Checkers."

Users will be able to click on a "learn why this is disputed" link to get more information.

Facebook will not be doing the fact-checking itself. CEO Mark Zuckerberg has repeatedly said that "we do not want to be arbiters of truth ourselves, but instead rely on our community and trusted third parties."

So those third parties will be fact-checking organization that have committed to the International Fact Checking Code of Principles, which was recently established by Poynter, a journalism organization.

Several dozen fact-checking organizations around the world have signed on the code of principles.

"We'll use the reports from our community, along with other signals, to send stories to these organizations," Facebook VP Adam Mosseri said in a blog post Thursday. "If the fact checking organizations identify a story as fake, it will get flagged as disputed and there will be a link to the corresponding article explaining why."

Facebook is making it clear that users will still be able to post whatever they want, no matter how bogus, on their own Facebook pages. But "you will see a warning that the story has been disputed as you share," Mosseri said.

And the disputed stories "may also appear lower" in the algorithmic News Feed that appears on the Facebook home page.

 

[Garmel]

Since many of the fact checkers do lean left I'm kinda worried about this. I remember the republicans being ripped for telling the truth about the ACA(premium and deductible increases).