Riots in Minneapolis
- Thread starter Crockett
- Start date
Which again, just as sure as some people will continue to refuse to sponsor even after allegedly making bank while shorting $GME, means that reasonable doubt will exist precisely because the State has failed to prove BEYOND a reasonable doubt the elements necessary for conviction.
But I guess only those who sponsor gain this knowledge and insight...
So, you show a clip from three overdosed non-sponsors who were all at the same location and thus may reasonably be presumed to have obtained dope from the same pusher, which one claiming she thought she had obtained cocaine. Not exactly apples to apples here, and certainly not what another non-sponsoring person makes it out to have been...
As to St George of Floyd, Felon of Texas, what we saw on the film, particularly commencing with when he was in the back of the vehicle, WAS a person who was slowing down their respirations. Just as you assert different levels exist for what is fatal in some non-sponsoring individuals, so to are the overdose reactions.
Hint: If you have ever seen an actual execution by lethal injection, you would see people jabbering away until...they weren't. Different drugs, but with same effect on the physiological responses and with the same net result...death.
Non sponsoring internet lawyers.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
Garment loves him some fentanyl.
I think our favorite Okie is hitting the cough syrup again.
While the officers were over the line, the military driver has precisely ZERO reason for having refused to comply with MULTIPLE lawful orders.
I've got no issue with the short drive to a lighted area, but when he refused to do as instructed, it instantly elevates the levels of stress and concern for the officer, especially since this had already been called as a felony car stop prior to the officers coming to a complete stop and exiting their own vehicles (which is why guns were drawn). The OC was not necessary and the 'ride the lightning' comment was certainly sanction-worthy (and would have really rankled some people had a taser been used instead of the OC).
It will not surprise me to see military sanctions applied against the driver for his own multiple refusals to comply with simple orders...
Those two POS cops will pay. The guy is a uniformed commissioned officer in the military. WTF do they think he’s going to do to them??? F those two POS cops. They’ll get what they have coming to them.
Apparently these two POS chickens!t cops started backtracking and told the Lieutenant something to the effect of: ‘C’mon. If you’ll just let this all go and not report this or file anything against us, we won’t tell your Commanding Officer.’ The serviceman wisely didn’t go for that.
The military will NOT sanction the Lieutenant.
Apparently these two POS chickens!t cops started backtracking and told the Lieutenant something to the effect of: ‘C’mon. If you’ll just let this all go and not report this or file anything against us, we won’t tell your Commanding Officer.’ The serviceman wisely didn’t go for that.
The military will NOT sanction the Lieutenant.
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Do you really believe someone in the military is incapable of doing harm simply because they are in the military? Have you missed what has happened just on some of the bases in Texas in the past couple of years?
At the time the traffic stop was being initiated, the officers had NO clue who they were dealing with. Then once the stop is made, they are confronted with someone who refused to obey the simplest of commands.
I've had stops where the officer/trooper wants me IN the car and some where they want me OUT of the car. I do as instructed WHEN instructed and often have precisely zero issue. If a ticket is written instead of a warning, it is for the traffic infraction that prompted the stop and nothing else. Of course, I was also instructed very early on, as ALL drivers should be, that as you pull over, put the hazards on and put the hands on the wheel...and if you need to get license or insurance, you tell the officer WHERE you are going with your hands. Also to let them know AS SOON as the window goes down that there is a weapon in the vehicle (which often prompts them to have me get out, or alternately, they ask where it is and then make a decision). Those tips have worked just as well for this white lesbian in the backwoods of Texas as it does for black male drivers who do as instructed.
If he follows instructions when first given, they would have told him.
If you get pulled over, do you believe YOU have the right to do however YOU please?
The reality, simple as it may be, is that one is NOT going to win the battle at the scene. If you believe you were done wrong by a stop, then you comply on the scene and THEN pursue legal redress. The body cam and dash cam is STILL going to exist tomorrow or next week or even next year.
I guess I do not understand what my basic rights are.
If I am pulled over and i am just sitting there with no hostile or threatening moves do I not have the right to ask (as he did very calmly and politely) why I am being pulled over as police are shouting and threatening?
If there is more to this than we are seeing then let's see it.
I see a man in Army uniform who stopped at a gas station and was treated to harsh methods with no provocation.
If I am pulled over and i am just sitting there with no hostile or threatening moves do I not have the right to ask (as he did very calmly and politely) why I am being pulled over as police are shouting and threatening?
If there is more to this than we are seeing then let's see it.
I see a man in Army uniform who stopped at a gas station and was treated to harsh methods with no provocation.
I think the cops were out of line, but why is it racism. This happens all the time to white people you just never hear about it or see videos of it.
Maybe he should follow directions. In every one of these cases, the Dumbass simply does not follow directions. You can hear on the radio “felony stop.” If George Floyd had followed directions, he would be alive.
Andrew McCarthy agrees with @AustinHorn24 on causation. Link. If it's well-reasoned, I don't mind posting stuff that disagrees with me.
I tend to agree with much of this article, but not when he says the battle over causation is over. Defense will soon get the ball and will likely put on his own experts on breathing/pulmonary, heart conditions, and toxicology. They may (or may not) plant enough reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors on causation of death to get an acquittal or hang the jury. But the causation battle is not over yet.
I agree with you. I didn't post because I think McCarthy is right. I think he's overly deferential to the prosecution (not surprising given his background). I posted it because it gives a credible argument for AH24's view.
I think what will save Chauvin is the fact that Floyd was showing clear signs of an overdose. I hope the jury agrees.
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OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
It’s a mother ducking traffic stop. He drove to a lighted are for THEIR SAFETY as much as anyone’s. Some of you would defend them for gunning him down for reaching for his seatbelt.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
Why “felony stop”? He pulled to a lighted area. That’s it.
Duck Dodgers
1,000+ Posts
The State's own witnesses have said:
St. George would be an OD death if based on tox reports from the autopsy.
St. George's blood flow to his brain (or whatever was left of it after years of being a drug fiend) was not cut off, and instead he croaked from not being unable to keep breathing in his position on the ground with weight on him - a totally different reason for his demise than anything the public has been told since last year.
Chauvin knee was not placed on St. George's neck for any impactful amount of time, but instead was mostly on his back and shoulders.
That the arrest, placement on the ground, and use of force to keep him in place, until EMS arrived, was justified. What they differ with is when the force should have been taken off him, and left on the ground by himself. Now the politically appointed Chief of Police said he should have gotten off St. George earlier, while the State's use of force expert witness said he too would have restrained the arrestee until EMS arrived.
That there was a hostile crowd around the arrest site, that prevented EMS from arriving as soon as they could have otherwise.
And this is from the prosecution's own witnesses. Though one of them was so bad for their case (the medical support coordinator), that the defense is going to call them again, as their witness!
Will any of this matter? It should, but most likely won't. St. George was alive (sort of) when he was arrested, then got "deaded" from his interaction with the cops. That and Burn Loot Murder, will probably be enough for the jury.
In firefighting courses, you learn about the fire triangle - fuel, heat, and oxygen. All three are needed to start a fire and keep it going.
Here you had three factors as well - Floyd's horrible heath issues, including a 3x lethal does of fentanyl in his system, a 5 day hospital stay 2 months before from ODing, meth, dope, high blood pressure, heart disease, diabetes, sickle cell, and the Wuhan virus. As I said before, Mr. Glass looked like Wolverine compared to him.
Second factor was his resistance of arrest, as if he'd simply sat in the back of the cop car, which he was already in, he'd have made it out alive that day. But he acted like he was drugged up (which he was), insisted on being taken out of the car, struggled with officers, and ended up on the ground.
Third was the cops putting and keeping him on the ground, some weight on him to keep him in place (though Chauvin weighted a whopping 140 lbs compared to Floyd's 200+), and not jumping off him at the Goldilocks amount of time.
You combine all three, and he's dead (Jim).
St. George would be an OD death if based on tox reports from the autopsy.
St. George's blood flow to his brain (or whatever was left of it after years of being a drug fiend) was not cut off, and instead he croaked from not being unable to keep breathing in his position on the ground with weight on him - a totally different reason for his demise than anything the public has been told since last year.
Chauvin knee was not placed on St. George's neck for any impactful amount of time, but instead was mostly on his back and shoulders.
That the arrest, placement on the ground, and use of force to keep him in place, until EMS arrived, was justified. What they differ with is when the force should have been taken off him, and left on the ground by himself. Now the politically appointed Chief of Police said he should have gotten off St. George earlier, while the State's use of force expert witness said he too would have restrained the arrestee until EMS arrived.
That there was a hostile crowd around the arrest site, that prevented EMS from arriving as soon as they could have otherwise.
And this is from the prosecution's own witnesses. Though one of them was so bad for their case (the medical support coordinator), that the defense is going to call them again, as their witness!
Will any of this matter? It should, but most likely won't. St. George was alive (sort of) when he was arrested, then got "deaded" from his interaction with the cops. That and Burn Loot Murder, will probably be enough for the jury.
In firefighting courses, you learn about the fire triangle - fuel, heat, and oxygen. All three are needed to start a fire and keep it going.
Here you had three factors as well - Floyd's horrible heath issues, including a 3x lethal does of fentanyl in his system, a 5 day hospital stay 2 months before from ODing, meth, dope, high blood pressure, heart disease, diabetes, sickle cell, and the Wuhan virus. As I said before, Mr. Glass looked like Wolverine compared to him.
Second factor was his resistance of arrest, as if he'd simply sat in the back of the cop car, which he was already in, he'd have made it out alive that day. But he acted like he was drugged up (which he was), insisted on being taken out of the car, struggled with officers, and ended up on the ground.
Third was the cops putting and keeping him on the ground, some weight on him to keep him in place (though Chauvin weighted a whopping 140 lbs compared to Floyd's 200+), and not jumping off him at the Goldilocks amount of time.
You combine all three, and he's dead (Jim).
He stopped almost a mile a way from where he was lit up.
Every time I have been pulled over, I had my window down as the officer approached and did as they asked, whether it was to remain in the vehicle or to step to the back. The CLOSEST I came to any real issue where there was disagreement was a stop in Indiana where the Trooper tried to give me grief because I didn't have the registration paperwork in the car (umm...we use the license plate for that where I come from). Still...I was cooperative, I signed for my ticket and then dealt with it when I returned to Texas (with the prosecutor dropping it below the level that would require reporting to Texas under reciprocity agreements).
Adhering to very simple instruction is a very easy way to avoid problems.
Again, the footage (body cam, not dash cam) suggests there were street lights. I don't know if there was any side street or other driveway to go into that was closer than a mile away. But when someone waits a MILE to finally indicate they are stopping, it rightfully escalates the potential that awaits the officer(s).
Further, nowhere when he begins whining at the beginning do you hear him utter a single word about having tried to go to a more lit area for his safety or that of the officers. Instead, he instantly went into the victim mode and THEN pulled the DYKWIA card.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
A. I always think off the road is preferable.
B. DYKWIA?
Duck Dodgers
1,000+ Posts
DYKWIA is Do you know who I am?
Generally, you are supposed to pull over as soon as practical. I've seen people stop on busy streets in Houston for traffic stops, instead of driving another block and turning into a side street, which I always thought was foolish.
Now since anyone can buy a blue light, there have been cases where criminals have tried stopped people at night, then robbing them, leading to even police agencies telling people to drive to a better area - but those have been been for unmarked cars. With outfitted cop cars, you have a much weaker argument as to why you drove over a mile.
Bet practice after being lit up is to change lanes to the right side, and either pull over when practical, or put on your emergency blinkers, and drive about 20 miles an hour if the highway is all torn up from road construction or such. This lets the cops know you're not doing a getaway via driving at a horse gallop pace. Then pull over, hand them your info so they can make sure you're not a criminal, then figure out what the issue is.
Or you can be like LT. Man-Child in the video, and end up hot sauced with snot running down your nose, and in cuffs. Personally, I'd have rather had the cops say they pulled me over since they couldn't see my temporary plates (which I thought were supposed to be on the outside for just this reason), and be on my way.
The time to figure out why you've been stopped is after they have run your DL and tags, not before.
Ultimately, cops are bureaucrats with guns, and just another government employee. Just like at the driver's license office, or applying for some building permit, there's a very limited amount of verbal arguing you can successfully do with them. Much better to contest things later, with written laws / procedures / processes printed out and ready to rely on.
Generally, you are supposed to pull over as soon as practical. I've seen people stop on busy streets in Houston for traffic stops, instead of driving another block and turning into a side street, which I always thought was foolish.
Now since anyone can buy a blue light, there have been cases where criminals have tried stopped people at night, then robbing them, leading to even police agencies telling people to drive to a better area - but those have been been for unmarked cars. With outfitted cop cars, you have a much weaker argument as to why you drove over a mile.
Bet practice after being lit up is to change lanes to the right side, and either pull over when practical, or put on your emergency blinkers, and drive about 20 miles an hour if the highway is all torn up from road construction or such. This lets the cops know you're not doing a getaway via driving at a horse gallop pace. Then pull over, hand them your info so they can make sure you're not a criminal, then figure out what the issue is.
Or you can be like LT. Man-Child in the video, and end up hot sauced with snot running down your nose, and in cuffs. Personally, I'd have rather had the cops say they pulled me over since they couldn't see my temporary plates (which I thought were supposed to be on the outside for just this reason), and be on my way.
The time to figure out why you've been stopped is after they have run your DL and tags, not before.
Ultimately, cops are bureaucrats with guns, and just another government employee. Just like at the driver's license office, or applying for some building permit, there's a very limited amount of verbal arguing you can successfully do with them. Much better to contest things later, with written laws / procedures / processes printed out and ready to rely on.
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Do you have a right? Sure. It will be provided to you in due course. You DO NOT have the right to demand disclosure before you decide whether or not you are going to follow instructions.
For most people who follow instructions, a traffic stop will convey that information not long after the officer has gotten to the door (after having first touched the trunk or tailgate, leaving their print). And at night, it is ALSO not uncommon for the holster to have already been unlatched, even if you are a 90-year old woman...
It is the same as if an officer or detective comes into your workplace and advises you to place your hands behind your back. The charge is generally going to be announced right as they go into the Miranda warnings, but you don't get to refuse to follow the instructions, again, not even if you are a 90-year old woman...
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