Riots in Minneapolis

Monahorns said:
Anyone who plays the fentanyl card? What the eff are you talking about? Did he or did he not have 10 times the lethal limit MEASURED SCIENTIFICALLY in his blood?

If he did, nothing your doctor friend said is worth anything. If he didn't, then I retract my statement.

Which is it Bubba?
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I'll defer to the emergency room doc doing primary care who laughingly said, "no guy who 'died from fentanyl' could talk and wail like that guy did".

Certainly it could be a contributing factor. I'd say that the guy kneeling "respectfully" on his neck for more than 8 minutes was the cause.
 
OUBubba said:
He was familiar with the scenario. His point was fentanyl kills you by putting you into such a restful place that your lungs don’t respond fast enough. You don’t lay there moaning “I can’t breath” and “momma” and “they’re going to kill me”. Anyone who plays the fentanyl card highlights their bias immediately and labels themselves not a serious person going forward.
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Am guessing you have never seen an execution or even a report from someone who is familiar with lethal injection. It is not uncommon with those combinations that the to-be-deceased is jabbering...until they aren't. Hell, some of them have even made plans to create a 'narrative' of the claimed cruel effects and go from yammering to just having shut the eff up...permanently.
 
Bubba gonna Bubba. Ignoring facts with the best of them.

Another fact. I have watched video of police using the same technique on other people including a woman and injury at all to them. That doesn't prove anything about Floyd, but it does show that there isn't a 1 for 1 link.
 
OUBubba said:
I'll defer to the emergency room doc doing primary care who laughingly said, "no guy who 'died from fentanyl' could talk and wail like that guy did".

Certainly it could be a contributing factor. I'd say that the guy kneeling "respectfully" on his neck for more than 8 minutes was the cause.
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Your doctor friend doesn't seem to know what he's talking about. You've made up your mind that Floyd's death resulted solely from Chauven using an accepted police practice and it had nothing to do with preexisting conditions or the fatal amount of drugs in his system. Good luck in court.
 
mb227 said:
The proximate cause of death is having a lethal quantity of fentanyl in the system of George Floyd.
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What's the "lethal" dose of fentanyl in someone who has abused fentanyl for years?

There's no straight answer to that question. Now if they had found a blood level of 50 in his system then sure that's probably lethal to anyone.

But Floyd's level was 11 ng/mL, which is certainly lethal for someone like me but not so much for a habitual drug user. I've treated patients before who had 20 ng/mL in their blood and they survived.

Also, Floyd's pattern of behavior doesn't fit an opioid overdose. People who are on lethal doses of fentanyl are very somber and subdued, not agitated like Floyd was. He probably had other drugs in his system causing the agitation, but that part of his behavior does not fit with fentanyl overdose.

Now certainly fentanyl in his system doesn't help him, but I think it's a real stretch to say that fentanyl alone caused his death.
 
Fentanyl alone? Perhaps not...but add in the pot in the system along with the large quantity of methamphetamine AND the more-traditional co-morbid conditions and you have a walking cardiac arrest waiting to occur.

Maybe you can use your $GME profits to fund the drug awareness program up there since you aren't sponsoring anything here...if there are any profits to even be had on those puts you claimed to have purchased.
 
AustinHorn24 said:
What's the "lethal" dose of fentanyl in someone who has abused fentanyl for years?

There's no straight answer to that question. Now if they had found a blood level of 50 in his system then sure that's probably lethal to anyone.

But Floyd's level was 11 ng/mL, which is certainly lethal for someone like me but not so much for a habitual drug user. I've treated patients before who had 20 ng/mL in their blood and they survived.

Also, Floyd's pattern of behavior doesn't fit an opioid overdose. People who are on lethal doses of fentanyl are very somber and subdued, not agitated like Floyd was. He probably had other drugs in his system causing the agitation, but that part of his behavior does not fit with fentanyl overdose.

Now certainly fentanyl in his system doesn't help him, but I think it's a real stretch to say that fentanyl alone caused his death.
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You are probably technically correct. He was overtly experiencing excited delirium and "couldn't breath" long before he was put on the ground. A cocktail of drugs, including a high dose on fentanyl caused him to have cardiac arrest and die. Perhaps Chauvin was negligent for not calling an ambulance sooner but murder? No.
 
In reality, he also had Meth in his system as well as he was sick with Sars -Covid 2, heart disease, hypertension and sickle cell. Also had cannabis in his system. I agree that as an active user, the amounts that will kill are different than you or me, but if he didn’t have all of those things in his system and had not resisted arrest, he would be alive today.
 
theiioftx said:
In reality, he also had Meth in his system as well as he was sick with Sars -Covid 2, heart disease, hypertension and sickle cell. Also had cannabis in his system. I agree that as an active user, the amounts that will kill are different than you or me, but if he didn’t have all of those things in his system and had not resisted arrest, he would be alive today.
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Well, he may not have been alive today anyway based on his lifestyle habits, but probably would have lived at least a while longer.
 
AustinHorn24 said:
What's the "lethal" dose of fentanyl in someone who has abused fentanyl for years?

There's no straight answer to that question. Now if they had found a blood level of 50 in his system then sure that's probably lethal to anyone.

But Floyd's level was 11 ng/mL, which is certainly lethal for someone like me but not so much for a habitual drug user. I've treated patients before who had 20 ng/mL in their blood and they survived.

Also, Floyd's pattern of behavior doesn't fit an opioid overdose. People who are on lethal doses of fentanyl are very somber and subdued, not agitated like Floyd was. He probably had other drugs in his system causing the agitation, but that part of his behavior does not fit with fentanyl overdose.

Now certainly fentanyl in his system doesn't help him, but I think it's a real stretch to say that fentanyl alone caused his death.
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You are a physician and can’t afford to sponsor?
 
theiioftx said:
In reality, he also had Meth in his system as well as he was sick with Sars -Covid 2, heart disease, hypertension and sickle cell. Also had cannabis in his system. I agree that as an active user, the amounts that will kill are different than you or me, but if he didn’t have all of those things in his system and had not resisted arrest, he would be alive today.
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Shouldn’t the meth counteract the fentanyl? Trust me, I’m an okie.
 
Looks like the powers-that-be in Minneapolis are getting what they deserve - How defunding the police backfired in Minneapolis, the city which sparked George Floyd protests across the world (yahoo.com).
I found this excerpt particularly interesting -
"...a group of residents who are suing the city for failing to protect the community, arguing the city leaders' support of the "defund the police movement" emboldened criminals and demoralised officers."
Maybe - just maybe - the citizens will rise up and demand accountability from the idoits they elected. And maybe - just maybe - they'll let their voices be heard at the ballot box and throw the bums out of office next election. One can hope.
 
HornHuskerDad said:
Looks like the powers-that-be in Minneapolis are getting what they deserve - How defunding the police backfired in Minneapolis, the city which sparked George Floyd protests across the world (yahoo.com).
I found this excerpt particularly interesting -
"...a group of residents who are suing the city for failing to protect the community, arguing the city leaders' support of the "defund the police movement" emboldened criminals and demoralised officers."
Maybe - just maybe - the citizens will rise up and demand accountability from the idoits they elected. And maybe - just maybe - they'll let their voices be heard at the ballot box and throw the bums out of office next election. One can hope.
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Here is the deal. It was utterly predictable and not just this year but inevitable given who the citizens voted for recently. Same for Austin. The citizenry are equally culpable. Only solution is to move away from the **** show. It worked in the 70’s to eventually add sanity to cities.
 
How defunding the police backfired in Minneapolis, the city which sparked George Floyd protests across the world

All over this nation we are seeing Liberal destruction of common sense. On the border. In our cities that our voting to defund the police. The calls to abolish ICE. This is the vision for Liberal America. This is why I voted for Trump. It is an absolute travesty what is happening and meanwhile our good intentioned white Liberals friends are fiddling because they are consumed with mindless egalitarianism.
 
mchammer said:
Bring back public square hangings:

Watch: Two Teenage Girls Carjack And Kill An Uber Driver; CNN Calls It An Accident | ZeroHedge
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I won't defend CNN, because we know they wouldn't be consistent on this. If two white kids carjacked a black guy and killed him in the process, they'd be framing it as a murder and find a way to frame it as involving racial animus whether it was or wasn't. They are calling it an accident because they care about precision in their language.

However, there is a logical case to frame it as an accident. They clearly intended to steal the car, but they probably did not intend to kill the guy.

They're being charged with murder, but it's under the felony murder doctrine. Ordinarily, to be charged with murder, the prosection has to prove intent. However, if the homicide is committed in the course of committing another intentional, violent felony, the intent can be transferred from the violent felony to the homicide, making it a murder as opposed to manslaughter, criminally negligent homicide, etc.

So in the case of these idiots, they committed the carjacking, which obviously was done intentionally. In the course of doing that, they killed someone. It would be hard to prove that they intended to kill the guy, but the intent from the carjacking will transfer to the killing. Hence, they can be charged with murder. But in a vacuum, is it crazy to call the killing an "accident?" No. It probably was an accident, even if it's leading to a murder charge.

Just FYI - some commentators (liberal and libertarian) think the felony murder doctrine is unconstitutional. I'm undecided on the matter, but it's not a BS argument.
 
Mr. Deez said:
So in the case of these idiots, they committed the carjacking, which obviously was done intentionally. In the course of doing that, they killed someone. It would be hard to prove that they intended to kill the guy, but the intent from the carjacking will transfer to the killing. Hence, they can be charged with murder. But in a vacuum, is it crazy to call the killing an "accident?" No. It probably was an accident, even if it's leading to a murder charge.
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I don't think it's crazy to call it an accident; I call it a willful "lawyering" of a news story because it's all about race with them.

YEARS ago, I received a jury notice and was selected for the voir dire session. It was a young black man. Apparently he was the driver in a robbery that resulted in someone being shot and killed by one of the robbers. It appeared he would be charged with murder because of the transfer from the robbery to the killing as you said. But I think it was 2nd degree murder. The questions seemed to revolve around the range in the sentencing guidelines (something like 5 years to 99; I've slept since then). Most of the jurors said they didn't feel he should get the maximum because he didn't pull the trigger. But they felt he should be punished maybe 40 years or so because the outcome of the robbery was far beyond gross negligence, which is kind of funny. The idea that you were negligent in committing a crime so as to render the negligence as a "We didn't mean to kill him" accident is hard to swallow when people are aggressively attacking another person with a weapon.

I was not selected for the jury. We were asked some dumb question about what was the one thing we had done for our community that made us most proud and I said I'd hired a young black woman to manage my answering service when I could have hired others who were slightly more qualified. I explained that I wanted to give her a chance and felt I could guide her. The DA OPENLY grimaced at me and the defense attorney gave me a broad smile.

I was booted.

The rest of the story? The young black woman used a credit card that applied for in our company name and stole $6,000. I fired her and her co-conspirator (also a black woman) but didn't press charges...

What does it all mean?
 
Yeah, if a couple of NIck Sandmann-clones had done that, I doubt CNN would care about precision in their language.

I had to laugh at my local newspaper. When reporting the Atlanta spa killings, the first three words in the front page Article were “A white male....”, while the recent shooting in Colorado was reported as, “ a man shot...”. The MSM is consistent, if not unbiased.
 
HornHuskerDad said:
Looks like the powers-that-be in Minneapolis are getting what they deserve - How defunding the police backfired in Minneapolis, the city which sparked George Floyd protests across the world (yahoo.com).
I found this excerpt particularly interesting -
"...a group of residents who are suing the city for failing to protect the community, arguing the city leaders' support of the "defund the police movement" emboldened criminals and demoralised officers."
Maybe - just maybe - the citizens will rise up and demand accountability from the idoits they elected. And maybe - just maybe - they'll let their voices be heard at the ballot box and throw the bums out of office next election. One can hope.
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Wow! Who could have seen that coming? How surprising.
 
Chop said:
Wow! Who could have seen that coming? How surprising.
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It seems in so many instance that legalization or decriminalization of crimes is done solely because nobody can make the perps stop committing those crimes. It's like Prohibition. But now, if you can't decriminalize a crime, then the next step would be to defund the enforcement arm (which Liberals have long accused Republicans of doing to the SEC - underfunding to neuter the laws). You can see the effect that would have on crime. It's so obvious to be comical that anyone would think otherwise as to the effect on the streets. But when you can't make someone behave then you start to blame law enforcement. It's a classic technique.
 
theiioftx said:
Haven’t heard much news on the two”spring breakers” who drugged, raped and murdered a 24 year old woman in Miami. I wonder why?

Spring breaker woman drugged, raped and found dead in Miami Beach hotel ID’d
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Two big problems with this story. First, obviously it doesn't fit the narrative that Whitey is looking for random black people to beat up or kill, so they aren't going to prioritize it as a national story.

Second, perhaps even bigger, the media is very careful not to emphasize stories in a way that perpetuates racial stereotypes. Obviously, this perpetuates the stereotype of black dudes on the prowl to bang white girls. So even if a national media outlet covered it, they'd be very careful in how they did so. They'd do everything they could to deemphasize the race of the perpetrators.
 
And the pivot has already started...for almost a year now, we have been fed the bull that the knee on the NECK was the proximate cause of death and NOW, in opening statements, the prosecutor has claimed that the rib cage couldn't expand because of the left shoulder being pinned.

They are making this up as they go, KNOWING they have a drug-addled career felon who would STILL have been alive to overdose on another day if he had only followed instructions.
 
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