Post-Trump GOP

Horn2RunAgain said:
Asking for details instead of hyperbole. Weak sauce... got it.
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I figure if the capitol police say a number I respect hipaa. If they were employees in my organization we couldn’t release anything. Yet, here on a sports message board that’s the hill you’re gonna die on?
 
OUBubba said:
I figure if the capitol police say a number I respect hipaa. If they were employees in my organization we couldn’t release anything. Yet, here on a sports message board that’s the hill you’re gonna die on?
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****, if the NYT says Sicknick died of blunt force trauma you'd believe that as well (i know i did until facts came out) No proof needed, just a gullible audience

Sorry, I'll need factual proof from here out. Band aids on 130 fingers or so doesn't impress me
 
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  • Seattle Husker said:
    "Brain injuries" could be a reference to Sicknick
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    How could that be a reference to Sicknick when the medical examiner said nothing of this sort happened? Obviously, the rioters, uh.... justice involved individuals..... shouldn't have done damage to the Capitol. The 140 figure is horseshite just like the lies about Sicknick. There is actual footage of Capitol police waiving justice involved individuals into the Capitol.
 
OUBubba said:
I figure if the capitol police say a number I respect hipaa. If they were employees in my organization we couldn’t release anything. Yet, here on a sports message board that’s the hill you’re gonna die on?
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In other words, you'll believe anything someone says. That's evident, but not an indication of intelligence.
 
Horn2RunAgain said:
40 you say? What were the injuries? Can you please detail them if possible

Reason for my asking, is when I go back and read the immediate media accounts of the event things are blown out of proportion, or in some cases, just plain false.

When I took my father in law to the ER a year ago, some there were being treated for "injuries" that simply could have been tko at home. I'm wondering how many of those FORTY injuries would be best treated in ones own bathroom
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Horn2RunAgain said:
See, that wasn't hard to produce. When you can produce a detailed list of injuries recd by officers, let me know
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There have been reports summarizing injuries, but no, you won't find a comprehensive list of injured officers and detailed descriptions of the injuries. Why? Because health privacy laws exist, so unless someone specifically permits their information to become public, it won't. You won't find a list of everybody injured (as opposed to fatalities) on 9/11 either. Do you doubt that in addition to the fatalities that many also got injured to varying degrees (everything from papercuts, stubbed toes, and minor bruises to blown-off limbs, catastrophic spinal injuries, lost eyes, etc.)? Presumably you don't.

And I'm going to remind everyone again. This is a friggin' sideshow. It wouldn't matter if nobody got hurt. Trying to disrupt the counting of the electoral votes through force is very bad even if you're too incompetent to actually hurt somebody while you're trying to do it. And yes, the idiots who trashed Seattle, Portland, and Minneapolis were bad - even the ones who didn't hurt anybody.
 
mchammer said:
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LOL. Get the f' outta here, Dude. Are you raising that as a serious issue? Unless under duress, of course it's not a legal defense to say someone encouraged you to do something illegal. You might be able to bring that up to miitigate your punishment, but it's not going to be a defense.
 
Mr. Deez said:
LOL. Get the f' outta here, Dude. Are you raising that as a serious issue? Unless under duress, of course it's not a legal defense to say someone encouraged you to do something illegal. You might be able to bring that up to miitigate your punishment, but it's not going to be a defense.
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The post was in contrast to the supposition that the folks arrested at the capitol protest chew Redman on the regular.
 
Mr. Deez said:
LOL. Get the f' outta here, Dude. Are you raising that as a serious issue? Unless under duress, of course it's not a legal defense to say someone encouraged you to do something illegal. You might be able to bring that up to miitigate your punishment, but it's not going to be a defense.
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They're now in Maricopa county. :)
 
Mr. Deez said:
here have been reports summarizing injuries, but no, you won't find a comprehensive list of injured officers and detailed descriptions of the injuries. Why? Because health privacy laws exist, so unless someone specifically permits their information to become public, it won't.
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Okay then, no officers were injured.
 
Mr. Deez said:
And I'm going to remind everyone again. This is a friggin' sideshow. It wouldn't matter if nobody got hurt. Trying to disrupt the counting of the electoral votes through force is very bad .
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Force? With what weapons?

This week's Epoch Times, Julie Kelly detailed the so called weapons used. Prosecutors tried to make a case that a walking stick was actually a "stun gun". When (Barnett's) lawyer argued the stick didn't have batteries, the judge let his client go...after almost 4 months spent in a prison

No one was attacked with a weapon inside the bldg other than Ashley Babbitt. I agree what happened on Jan 6 was more than wrong, but it's being blown completely out of proportion. A CP officer was on cnn recently (since when do police officers have neck tattoos??) and mentioned a stun gun, yet no such weapon has been discovered. More misinformation
 
Horn2RunAgain said:
Force? With what weapons?

This week's Epoch Times, Julie Kelly detailed the so called weapons used. Prosecutors tried to make a case that a walking stick was actually a "stun gun". When (Barnett's) lawyer argued the stick didn't have batteries, the judge let his client go...after almost 4 months spent in a prison

No one was attacked with a weapon inside the bldg other than Ashley Babbitt.
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Damn, you'll do anything to rationalize these handjobs. You don't need a gun to use force. A baseball bat will suffice. A hammer will suffice. Any blunt or sharp object will suffice. Shear numbers can suffice. If one guy tries to get into my house with no weapon of any kind, unless he's unusually strong I can probably stop him. If 500 try to get into my house, I probably can't. There's force in numbers.

Horn2RunAgain said:
I agree what happened on Jan 6 was more than wrong,
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Only you know what's in your own mind, but you don't sound like you think so. You're doing everything you can to diminish it.

Horn2RunAgain said:
but it's being blown completely out of proportion. A CP officer was on cnn recently (since when do police officers have neck tattoos??) and mentioned a stun gun, yet no such weapon has been discovered. More misinformation
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Yes, CNN is a bunch of partisan hacks. I'll concede that point and make that point all day long. They have no crediblity with me at all, but I'm not going to let that blur and distort my personal judgment.

I don't care what CNN and others like them say and frankly stopped watching them long ago. My judgment of the Capitol rioters is completely independent of theirs. If they say something is bad, I'm not going to assume it's bad. However, if they say something's bad, I'm not going to assume that it's good just because they say it's bad. It feels like you're taking that approach, and it's weird, because that's usually not your style.
 
Mr. Deez said:
Damn, you'll do anything to rationalize these handjobs. You don't need a gun to use force. A baseball bat will suffice. A hammer will suffice. Any blunt or sharp object will suffice. Shear numbers can suffice. If one guy tries to get into my house with no weapon of any kind, unless he's unusually strong I can probably stop him. If 500 try to get into my house, I probably can't. There's force in numbers.



Only you know what's in your own mind, but you don't sound like you think so. You're doing everything you can to diminish it.



Yes, CNN is a bunch of partisan hacks. I'll concede that point and make that point all day long. They have no crediblity with me at all, but I'm not going to let that blur and distort my personal judgment.

I don't care what CNN and others like them say and frankly stopped watching them long ago. My judgment of the Capitol rioters is completely independent of theirs. If they say something is bad, I'm not going to assume it's bad. However, if they say something's bad, I'm not going to assume that it's good just because they say it's bad. It feels like you're taking that approach, and it's weird, because that's usually not your style.
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Incorrect. I'm not rationalizing anything. I'm viewing things as they actually happened, not as they're depicted

There was no baseball bat used on a CP officer. There was no hammer used on a CP officer. Sheer #s suffice only when a takeover is the only goal. Obviously that wasn't the goal. If it was then they'd used a helluva lot more than a bat or hammer (or as it turned out, a ******* walking stick) and you know it.
 
Horn2RunAgain said:
Incorrect. I'm not rationalizing anything. I'm viewing things as they actually happened, not as they're depicted

There was no baseball bat used on a CP officer. There was no hammer used on a CP officer. Sheer #s suffice only when a takeover is the only goal. Obviously that wasn't the goal. If it was then they'd used a helluva lot more than a bat or hammer (or as it turned out, a ******* walking stick) and you know it.
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As they actually happened? As what happened? You're saying no force was used. If that's true, then how did they get in, or did no one actually get in and this whole thing was fake? If you concede that they got in, then how did they do so? Were the Capitol Police voluntarily permitting them in? If so, then why? Was there collusion of some kind between the rioters and the police? If so, then why fire on Ashley Babbitt or even try to apprehend her? Why claim that 140 officers were injured that 14 were hospitalized? I know you think that the agency is lying about that, but why even do that?

And I think the goal wasn't to take over. The goal was to directly disrupt the counting of the electoral votes either through the members of Congress or the Vice President. (That's why they were going to the chambers.) And of course, the other goal was to show off for Donald Trump - sorta like Hinckley wanting to show off for Jodie Foster.
 
Mr D???
Have you honestly not seen vids of the Captitol police escorting and waiving people in? There are vids in this thread showing exactly that.
You need to research better before you ask how they got in
 
Horn6721 said:
Mr D???
Have you honestly not seen vids of the Captitol police escorting and waiving people in? There are vids in this thread showing exactly that.
You need to research better before you ask how they got in
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Yes, I am aware of that. There was a rationale for that, and it wasn't, "****, these people seem nice. Let's just let 'em in."
 
Mr. Deez said:
Yes, I am aware of that. There was a rationale for that, and it wasn't, "****, these people seem nice. Let's just let 'em in."
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To be fair, there was some of that. That said, there seemed to be a coordinated "attack".

Suspicious packages planted at both the RNC and DNC to distract the police.

9:00 rally started
10:58 a contingent of proud boys headed to the capitol
12:30 a calm crowd of about 300 built up on the east side of the capitol - these are the people Josh Hawley signaled a raised fist to
12:45 a crowd formed on the west of the capitol
12:51 the crowd rushed the fences on the west side
12:52 at the ellipse the oath keepers exited and changed into combat uniforms and moved toward the capitol
12:53 rioters broke the the barriers

People brought climbing gear, military protective clothing and communications devices. They were delusional enough to think they could overturn the election. They still are.
 
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OUBubba said:
To be fair, there was some of that.
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That's because they were grossly outnumbered and didn't want massive violence breaking out. These guys were pulling the ultimate "hold my beer," and the police were in no position to stop them on their own.

And for all the talk about them being unarmed, I'll say what we say about unarmed black men who are shot by the police. There was no way for Capitol police to know who was armed and who wasn't. They had to act according to what they knew or could reasonably suspect based on the conduct of the rioters.
 
Mr. Deez said:
Unless under duress, of course it's not a legal defense to say someone encouraged you to do something illegal. You might be able to bring that up to miitigate your punishment, but it's not going to be a defense.
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It didn't help Tex Watson, Susan Atkins, et al...
 
Mr. Deez said:
That's because they were grossly outnumbered and didn't want massive violence breaking out. These guys were pulling the ultimate "hold my beer," and the police were in no position to stop them on their own.

And for all the talk about them being unarmed, I'll say what we say about unarmed black men who are shot by the police. There was no way for Capitol police to know who was armed and who wasn't. They had to act according to what they knew or could reasonably suspect based on the conduct of the rioters.
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Just imagine if the police gunned everyone down. It would have been pretty freakin' horrific. But how do you stop a mob? What if they were intending on grabbing some Congress folks and stringing them up? What then? Is that when you start blasting?
 
bystander said:
Just imagine if the police gunned everyone down. It would have been pretty freakin' horrific. But how do you stop a mob? What if they were intending on grabbing some Congress folks and stringing them up? What then? Is that when you start blasting?
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At least some of them were intending on stringing people up. I would submit that the vast majority likely had no clue that was where that was heading. That said, adrenaline does crazy things.
 
OUBubba said:
At least some of them were intending on stringing people up. I would submit that the vast majority likely had no clue that was where that was heading. That said, adrenaline does crazy things.
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I also believe the vast majority thought they were being patriotic to their own value system for the nation. They saw many protests around the country by the Left along with the violence. I don't know if they thought they could get away with violence or not. But just being there shouldn't be an indictment of anything.

The adrenaline probably pushed some folks into the building that originally had no plan to do so. Then there were those who were really pissed and possibly had a violent agenda. So you can stratify it.

It's been proven that Trump called for a peaceful demonstration though he used rhetoric that might inflame idiots/psychopaths (come up here and fight). It is the responsibility of those in power to understand the power of their words. People on the Left don't seem to care enough about that to be in a place to judge Trump.

But the biggest difference in this mob action was that it was inside the Federal buildings and not just on the streets. That took it to another level so I can see the concern. I consider it to have been one of the dumbest things I've ever seen by the right. Just a totally futile attempt to do something that should have never been contemplated.

And now the Left has their trump card to wipe out any ill-will from ALL actions by Left-wing street mobs. That's why it was so dumb.
 
Mr. Deez said:
As they actually happened? As what happened? You're saying no force was used.
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It's hard to hold a conversation when you put words in my mouth. I'm saying... For maybe the 12th time... What ACTUALLY HAPPENED is far from being reported. You're twisting that thought into "no force was used, you say"

If any of them put hands on a cop they should pay a price, agree? What most of those protesters did on January 6 was no more aggregious than the summer rioters actions. One of those groups were being bailed out of jail by the current VPs efforts. The other group is being "hunted down like 9-11 terrorists " as msnbc , cnn talkies gleefully say

Two sets of rules. Cities burned. Cops shot, LOEs killed (not by a stroke, by firearm). Etc. . The 2 sets of rules for rioters and the MISINFORMATION is too much
 
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OUBubba said:
Some believe that antifa did all this 1/6/21 stuff
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Well, I have no evidence of that nor am I inclined to think so. False flag accusations are always out there. We hear the Left raising it at times during what appears to be Antifa et al led street shenanigans. It seemed to me that they were pro-Trump. Not that I've watched videos but I have no reason to believe otherwise.
 
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