Orlando Massacre

NJlonghorn said:
I don't understand why so many people are hung up on the "how much is enough?" question. The question we need to focus on is "will taking action make things better or worse?" I understand that people will have different answers to that question, but anyone who isn't asking it is putting emotion ahead of reason.
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I think they go together, because there's a cost-benefit analysis going on. Let's be honest. The severity of the attack does impact how far we're willing to go to make things better. We're not going to launch the next round of the Crusades over a nut shooting up a night club. As bad as it is, it just doesn't warrant paying that big of a price in money and blood, even if it would likely bring an end to ISIS and frighten other nutcases from trying to build an Islamic caliphate again.

However, suppose that instead of shooting up a night club this guy had gotten his hands on a nuclear weapon and set it off in the middle of Manhattan and killed half a million people. There's no question that most people would look at it differently, and there's no question that we'd be willing to do a lot more to stop not only the person involved but also whoever inspired him to do it. We'd be willing to do a lot more to make Islamic terrorism look less "inspirational."
 
NJlonghorn said:
I don't understand why so many people are hung up on the "how much is enough?" question. The question we need to focus on is "will taking action make things better or worse?" I understand that people will have different answers to that question, but anyone who isn't asking it is putting emotion ahead of reason.
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Mr. Deez said:
You need to tell your fellow citizens. They didn't get the memo on this.
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I see that too.
 
iatrogenic said:
Well, it was domestic and a gun was involved. Motivation plays a role.

That damn Constitution keeps getting in your way.
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I don't have a problem with the Constitution. Sure, it makes law enforcement difficult and people abuse liberties, but if authorities had no checks on powers, freedom would be at stake.

Some dumbass would want to deport all Muslims.
 
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/17/us/orlando-shooter-omar-mateen/index.html

Apparently a Florida gun store owner tried to tip off the FBI as to a suspicious buyer but the tip went nowhere as the buyer could not be indentified. Maybe gun stores should be required to keep their own private security cameras so the FBI can idenfity someone in a case like this?

Surely there are solutions other than taking all the muslims or guns away?

In the case of the Charleston shooter, there was a failure in the approval stage and he was approved when he should not have been.

It seems like efforts could be made to improve the background check system or to allow/require gun store owners to more effectivey report suspicious persons. I think anyone wanting to buy body armor and ammo in bulk at least merits a look. Or we could just keep debating sending all the muslims and/or guns away.
 
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Or some dumbass Dem Congressperson would want to abolish due process. He don't need no stinkin' Constitution.



I think a hard 3 even 5 day waiting period would be a good start.
 
Horn6721 said:
Or some dumbass Dem Congressperson would want to abolish due process. He don't need no stinkin' Constitution.



I think a hard 3 even 5 day waiting period would be a good start.
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That was a stupid-*** thing to say, and it was surprising coming from Joe Manchin. For a Democrat, he's generally favorable to gun rights.
 
Another table made from Pew results

Ck4hTg8WYAEQlge.jpg:large
 
Those extremely high % should not be surprising but still are.
Wonder how Syria Afghanistan or Yemen would poll?
 
Seattle Husker said:
Or not. This link was live as of yesterday but you'll need to trust my description. ....
It was a video of a sermon at Verity Baptist church .....
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There was no video. Are they like Westboro Baptist?
I dont know anything about Verity but Westboro is infamous for their gay hatred, among other activities. So, let's use them

Westboro has ~ 40 members (admittedly a guess) [contrast with Islam]
Westboro is openly ridiculed regularly by all sides for their views/activities [almost no one is willing to say anything publicly about Islam]
Westboro, at worst, holds up signs with mean slogans [Islam holds up severed heads]
 
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I read that Verity Baptist has under 200 members. As in, a celebratory notice in the directory when they had a "record" of around 175 people show up.
Why are folks obsessed with trying to compare Christianity and Islam?
There is a woman on my Facebook who, every single time there is a terrorist attack, posts something such as, "well, you know it won't be long before the Christians kill more doctors who perform abortions".

I have honestly tried to search to see if there have been more than a few isolated instances. There was one I could find, Dr. George Tiller that as anytime in the last couple of decades.
Stop with the tit for tat. GAH.
 
John Wayne Gacy and Jeffrey Dahmer were homosexuals that killed (and performed some of the sickest **** imaginable on their corpses) 50 people, many of which were also homosexual. Should we use that similarity to compare homosexuality with Mateen or with ISIS?

You have to look at what motivates the killer. What were they taught or what caused them to perform the hideous act(s). Islam does teach hate. Christianity does not. Homosexuality, I'm fairly certain, doesnt teach killing homosexuals, drilling holes in their head, pouring acid in the holes to try and make them zombie-like servants, and then engaging in necrophilia before dismembering the victims.

Pointing out a few nut cases does not prove a theory. Having 1500 years of widespread actions taught to and carried out by the followers of any group does indicate a problem.
 
Hollandtx said:
....
Why are folks obsessed with trying to compare Christianity and Islam?....
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Politics (puppetmasters pull strings, manipulate 'useful idiots')
Avoidance
Misdirection
Myopia
Brainwashing
Self-hatred
Narcissism (ex, Obama's inability to admit mistake)
Personal interest/money (ex, Hillary has taken in a stunning amount of money from Saudi, Morocco, Oman, Yemen ....)

Moral equivalency is the Left’s special way of fighting evil. If you think about it, they have painted themselves into a corner with whom can be bad guys. They do not have many options.

They generally see contempt for Western ideas as noble, while contempt for non-Western ideas (Islam now) as evil. During the Cold War, they saw the US and the Soviets and other commies as 'moral equivalents.' (still do). Yet, 30+ years ago, they had no trouble joining together to condemn South Africa. Why were they willing to condemn apartheid then but not Islamic terrorism now? Isn't what the terrorists are doing now even worse than apartheid then? The primary difference is who was the bad actor back then (white & Western).

The reality today, of course, is that there is no other religious group in the world engaged in mass murder, systematic rape, systemic child-rape, slavery, beheading innocent peoples, bombing public events, shooting up gay bars, airports and concerts and wiping whole religious communities off the face of the earth.
 
So, here is an interesting story on the possible link between the Orlando events and the almost Calif event

"Santa Monica; Two police officers who wish to remain anonymous for fear of retaliation say that James Wesley Howell, an Indiana man who was found with a car full of explosives and weapons on Sunday morning, told police he was part of a team that planned shooting attacks on gay communities in Florida and California.

Howell told police he was turning himself in because he wanted protection. His story was that he had been assured by his recruiters that he would not be harmed in the shooting but, when he heard on the news that Omar Mateen, the lead gunman in the Orlando group, had been killed by sniper fire, he realized he was being set up as a patsy and would be killed.

Soon after that, the FBI took over the investigation, and information to the public was filtered to remove any facts that might show the Orlando shooting as a planned event involving others. ....."

https://therealstrategy.com/false-flag-proof-indiana-bomber-turned-fear-life/#.V2csgx7AVl0.twitter
 
And now Attorney General Loretta Lynch goes on Sunday morning talk shows and says that the DOJ is scrubbing references of radical Muslim beliefs from the transcripts of calls Orlando terrorist Omar Mateen made to police during his massacre.

Her rationale (other than BO told her to) is: “What we’re not going to do is further proclaim this man’s pledges of allegiance to terrorist groups, and further his propaganda,” Lynch told NBC. “We are not going to hear him make his assertions of allegiance [to the Islamic State].”

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/2...nightclub-gunman-and-police.html?intcmp=hpbt1

In reality what they're doing is trying to turn it into a hate crime against gays and Latinos, instead of a terrorist attack. That goes better with their agenda of 1) gun control and 2) don't blame those po' peaceful muslim folk.
 
Clean said:
And now Attorney General Loretta Lynch goes on Sunday morning talk shows and says that the DOJ is scrubbing references of radical Muslim beliefs from the transcripts of calls Orlando terrorist Omar Mateen made to police during his massacre.
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Oh man. I am at a loss for words. How do you even reason with this type of mentality?
 
There was another case a couple years ago with some eery parallels to Orlando, but involving arson. It was New Years Eve 2013 at a packed Seattle gay bar (actual event was Jan 1, 2014). The arsonist was Musab Masmari born in the US to Libyan parents. He started the fire but it was caught before anyone died. He was arrested trying to flee to Turkey. Got 10 years in fed prison

Here is an article on it.
Can you already guess what the article neglects to mention?
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Neighbours-arson-Cheap-whiskey-or-intolerable-5659983.php

".... Prosecutors offered another motive for the arson – homophobia.

Writing the court, Assistant U.S. Attorney Todd Greenberg said evidence suggests Masmari was motivated by an “intolerable hate.

“One of Masmari’s close associates was interviewed by investigators and reported that Masmari confided in him that he ‘burned a gay club’ and that he did it because ‘what these people are doing is wrong,’” Greenberg said in court papers.
* * * *
Surveillance video showed Masmari entering a bar linked to Neighbours by an interior door carrying a one-gallon gas can in a bag. Masmari headed straight into Neighbours, set the fire and then fled through the bar.”
 
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Clean said:
And now Attorney General Loretta Lynch goes on Sunday morning talk shows and says that the DOJ is scrubbing references of radical Muslim beliefs from the transcripts of calls Orlando terrorist Omar Mateen made to police during his massacre.

Her rationale (other than BO told her to) is: “What we’re not going to do is further proclaim this man’s pledges of allegiance to terrorist groups, and further his propaganda,” Lynch told NBC. “We are not going to hear him make his assertions of allegiance [to the Islamic State].”

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/2...nightclub-gunman-and-police.html?intcmp=hpbt1

In reality what they're doing is trying to turn it into a hate crime against gays and Latinos, instead of a terrorist attack. That goes better with their agenda of 1) gun control and 2) don't blame those po' peaceful muslim folk.
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They are scared that the LGBT community is voting for Trump.
 
Partial transcript (I think this is real) of Orlando workplace violence

I wonder if Obama/Lynch would have not made any redactions if he had instead used Obama's pet name of ISIL?


ClZuUeCUoAIz4P4.jpg
 
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I saw the transcript in the Washington Post. Omitting "ISIS" from the transcript serves no purpose, not even the purpose the DOJ thinks it serves. It just looks incredibly silly and odd when everyone knows what the omitted word is.

Also, I am going to follow Joe Fan's example and start referring to them as omitted.
 
The Obama administration wants all Americans to know that they fully understand the terrorist threat from [omitted]...
 
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