Orlando Massacre

It's hardly the last word on the subject, but I ran across this article written by a Muslim student. I think it way more valuable than my, or any other poster's projection, of how they would feel. http://www.fairobserver.com/region/...e-future-of-muslim-students-in-america-54963/

Also found a link to a Pew Study on Muslim population in the US, one of the few outlets that didn't take an inflammatory approach.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/01/06/a-new-estimate-of-the-u-s-muslim-population/ 3.3 million Muslims.

If they are all dangerous, we're going to need a bigger FBI. If most of them are on 'our" side, then it may be best to cutivate this group as people who can make varied contributions to our way of life and the so-called "war on terror."
 
Very self serving article about the students. Not once did it address the problems (or source of the problems) brought on by Muslims. It did make a few threats if we did not appease the students.

The Muslim problem has existed since the sixth century. Since Mohammed emerged from a cave and self-appointed himself the one and only Prophet, promised the locals a share of the loot they could steal from non-Muslims, and described how Muslims should oppress everyone else, these people have been a problem. They have advanced the "black stone plague" to various degrees for 1500 years, and have repeatedly been beaten into submission by various forces only to reconstitute again at a future date. What is happening currently is not new, just a continuation of past Muslim acts.

Appeasement will not work, it will only encourage them. Until such time as a Martin Luther or John Calvin emerges within the Muslim religion, calls bull****, and begins a reformation, the Islamic version of Catholic "indulgences" and corruption will not be stopped.

Until that occurs, we will need to defend ourselves. Putting a good old fashioned *** kicking on them could help speed the reformation. At a minimum, ***-kickings have pushed them into remission in the past. At some point, everyone gets tired of taking a beating and begins to change their M.O.
 
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So Iatrogenic, I assume you see "all" Muslims as a problem, not just the relative handful that commit atrocities?
 
iatrogenic said:
Putting a good old fashioned *** kicking on them could help speed the reformation. At a minimum, ***-kickings have pushed them into remission in the past. At some point, everyone gets tired of taking a beating and begins to change their M.O.
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That strategy worked great when they were there and we were here, travel from there to here took weeks upon weeks, and weapons only reached as far as a person could throw them. The modern world is too intertwined to kick an entire religion into submission.

That said, the machisimo you exude when spewing venom is very sexy. If I were female, or gay, I wouldn't be able to get you out of my mind.
 
Crockett said:
So Iatrogenic, I assume you see "all" Muslims as a problem, not just the relative handful that commit atrocities?
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This shows the misunderstanding of Islam. If a Muslim is a true follower, they follow the doctrine of Islam (which is problematic since the religion calls for oppression, conversion, murder). That group is commonly referred to as "radical", but in actuality they are just believers. Those that call themselves Muslims but don't follow the teachings are Muslim-lite. How are we supposed to distinguish between the two versions?
 
iatrogenic said:
This shows the misunderstanding of Islam. If a Muslim is a true follower, they follow the doctrine of Islam (which is problematic since the religion calls for oppression, conversion, murder). That group is commonly referred to as "radical", but in actuality they are just believers. Those that call themselves Muslims but don't follow the teachings are Muslim-lite. How are we supposed to distinguish between the two versions?
Click to expand...

Have you read the Old Testament in the bible? Apparently, you want to go to war with 1.6B people. Do you also protest your tax bill and support our easy gun access laws?
 
ClFTjduUYAEx4O4.jpg
 
NJlonghorn said:
That strategy worked great when they were there and we were here, travel from there to here took weeks upon weeks, and weapons only reached as far as a person could throw them. The modern world is too intertwined to kick an entire religion into submission.

Historically, "they" weren't there and "we" weren't here. They were intertwined with Europe and the Middle East. Pope Urban finally had it up to his mitre and sent out the first crusade to expunge the Muslims from Jerusalem.


That said, the machisimo you exude when spewing venom is very sexy. If I were female, or gay, I wouldn't be able to get you out of my mind.
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I'm sure the various Popes would secretly appreciate your "hypothetical" gay attraction for their actions during the crusades.
 
iatrogenic said:
This shows the misunderstanding of Islam. If a Muslim is a true follower, they follow the doctrine of Islam (which is problematic since the religion calls for oppression, conversion, murder). That group is commonly referred to as "radical", but in actuality they are just believers. Those that call themselves Muslims but don't follow the teachings are Muslim-lite. How are we supposed to distinguish between the two versions?
Click to expand...

By your logic, someone is a true Jew only if he follows the Old Testament to the letter, and someone is a true Christian only if he follows the New Testament to the letter. I don't buy that. Judaism and Christianity have evolved over the last few centuries, and people who follow the evolved versions of their respective religion are still Jews and Christians, not Jew-lites and Christian-lites. Very few modern Jews or Christians are strict adherents, and those who are (in my eyes, at least) are radicals.

The same is true of Islam. Most modern American Muslims do not follow the Quran to the letter, yet they are still Muslims. Those who follow the traditional teachings of Islam to the letter are radicals.

To be sure, there are many more radical Muslims than there are radical Jews or radical Christians. But they are still a very small minority, at least in this part of the world.
 
ia
you beat me to it. Don't forget btw that the islamist terrorists in San Bernardino were good"moderate" muslims
until they weren't
 
iatrogenic said:
I agree NJ, now go separate them for us so we know which ones to look out for.
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I guess we must differ on perceived danger. There are 150 Americans accidentally drown and 5 who choke to death on hot dogs for every American shot by a Muslim terrorist. If we abandon our Constitution and sense of justice over the actions of half dozen madmen, then the murderers have been outrageously successful.
 
Crockett said:
I guess we must differ on perceived danger. There are 150 Americans accidentally drown and 5 who choke to death on hot dogs for every American shot by a Muslim terrorist. If we abandon our Constitution and sense of justice over the actions of half dozen madmen, then the murderers have been outrageously successful.
Click to expand...

If only we could limit the risk to those that find it acceptable, I could agree with you.
 
CIA director Brennan yesterday:
"ISIS is attempting infiltrate operatives into the West through “refugee flows, smuggling routes and legitimate methods of travel.
Brennan said, “Unfortunately, despite all of our progress against ISIL on the battlefield and in the financial realm, our efforts have not reduced the groups terrorism capability and global reach. The resources needed for terrorism are modest. The group would have to suffer even heaver loses on territory, manpower and money for the terrorist capacity to decline significantly. Moreover the groups foreign branches and global networks can help preserve the capacity for terrorism regardless of events in Iraq and Syria. In fact, as the pressure mounts on ISIL we judge it will intensify it’s global terror campaign to maintain its dominance of the global terrorism agenda."
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016/06/16/cia-director-islamic-state-intensify-global-attacks/
 
Horn6721 said:
CIA director Brennan yesterday:
"ISIS is attempting infiltrate operatives into the West through “refugee flows, smuggling routes and legitimate methods of travel.
Brennan said, “Unfortunately, despite all of our progress against ISIL on the battlefield and in the financial realm, our efforts have not reduced the groups terrorism capability and global reach. The resources needed for terrorism are modest. The group would have to suffer even heaver loses on territory, manpower and money for the terrorist capacity to decline significantly. Moreover the groups foreign branches and global networks can help preserve the capacity for terrorism regardless of events in Iraq and Syria. In fact, as the pressure mounts on ISIL we judge it will intensify it’s global terror campaign to maintain its dominance of the global terrorism agenda."
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016/06/16/cia-director-islamic-state-intensify-global-attacks/
Click to expand...

Is that a surprise to anyone?
 
Croc
Explain HOW vetting people sufficiently before we let them into our country and give them thousands of our tax dollar is abandoning our Constitution and sense of justice?
 
Husker
It must be a surprise to BO since they just reduced the time they previously said they needed to vet people from 24 months to 3 months.
Do you honestly think the records these people present have somehow all of a sudden gotten accurate?
We spend 20 K to settle each refugee plus they then get on every entitlement program we offer.
And somehow it is unconstitutional to ant to know who they are?:brickwall:
 
iatrogenic said:
Okay, you convinced me. Let's just kick back and let it happen.
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Said as if the FBI doesn't have 900 open domestic terrorism cases and visa candidates don't already go through what is likely the most significant vetting process of any country in the world. It's all or nothing, eh?
 
Horn6721 said:
Husker
It must be a surprise to BO since they just reduced the time they previously said they needed to vet people from 24 months to 3 months.
Click to expand...

Is it possible that the process has changed, data sources or even greater resources? I work in IT and we put tools in place to add process efficiencies daily. Remember, our process starts after refugees have been vetted by the UN.

We spend 20 K to settle each refugee plus they then get on every entitlement program we offer.
And somehow it is unconstitutional to ant to know who they are?:brickwall:
Click to expand...

Unconstitutional? I'm not getting your point. Non-profit organizations are involved in the resettlement process. I think they know who they are as well as the Feds through the application/vetting process. Is it possible that a bad guy slips through the process? Absolutely. Is it easier for them to go through the resettlement process or forge a passport and travel directly or slip across the Canada/Mexico border?
 
Husker
GIGO, I don't care how fast they can now access data. There is no reliable data from those areas. Where is the UN getting their data for the prescreening ?
Why would we take the word of the UN?
You mention how easy ( and it is easy) it is to forge a passport but you don't seem to think they can forge docs to present to the UN and USA? Huh?
A reason to come in as a refugee is the amount of money in benefits we give them. They can live off us for years or until they decide to quit being a good moderate muslim.
 
Horn6721 said:
Husker
GIGO, I don't care how fast they can now access data. There is no reliable data from those areas. Where is the UN getting their data for the prescreening ?
Why would we take the word of the UN?
You mention how easy ( and it is easy) it is to forge a passport but you don't seem to think they can forge docs to present to the UN and USA? Huh?
A reason to come in as a refugee is the amount of money in benefits we give them. They can live off us for years or until they decide to quit being a good moderate muslim.
Click to expand...

Are these refugees looking for a better life? Yes, just like your forefathers and my forefathers who came to the USA. Can these refugees add to the fabric of America? Generations of immigrants before have come to the US, been given a seed from which to grown and become strong contributing members of American society. It's unfathomable how some can claim to value our founding fathers and claim to hold up their constitutional ideals then completely ignore the melting pot these founding fathers hoped to create. It's as if "I'm in so **** those that are behind me in line" is the prevailing thought. While y'all fear that 1 terrorist that fools the system to get through, I choose to focus on that Afghanistan translator who put his life and family's life in danger to help us or the Westernized Syrian family that escaped torture by the Assad regime (our mutual enemy) with nothing but the shirts on their backs.

I've already stated that I'd focus our immigration on women, children and the elderly. Men in the 20-45 age range should be allowed in only on exception (e.g. war translators).
 
Crockett said:
Also found a link to a Pew Study on Muslim population in the US, one of the few outlets that didn't take an inflammatory approach.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/01/06/a-new-estimate-of-the-u-s-muslim-population/ 3.3 million Muslims.
Click to expand...


The thing about the Muslim population is that it is already gigantic (and growing). PEW Worldwide polling shows OVER 65 MILLION MUSLIMS SUPPORT ISIS. That is alot of people. For example, 20% of Muslims in Nigeria (which is over 15M people) and 28% in Pakistan (which is over 49M people) OPENLY support ISIS.

pew-isis.png
 
Here is Immanuel Al-Manteeqi on this very point --

".... Although supporters of extremist Islamist groups make up a relatively small percentage of the total Muslim population, this leads to underestimating the scope of the Islamist problem. In absolute numbers, more than 60 million Muslims the world over, a population roughly equal to that of the United Kingdom, holds a favorable view towards ISIS. Millions more are unsure about whether they hold a favorable or unfavorable view towards ISIS, according to Pew research.

So when events like this occur, people who raise religious concerns do not blame all Muslims, but blame the religious ideology that motivates such hatred, a religious ideology that ultimately has roots in the Islamic source texts themselves. Fair-minded commentators, therefore, do not dismiss such murderous actions as nihilistic crimes against humanity. Rather, they understand the murderers are motivated not by a nihilistic urge for violence, but by cold and calculated reasoning that runs deep in the Islamic source texts and traditions. These source texts and traditions provide the fertile breeding ground for people like Mateen....." http://thefederalist.com/author/immanuelalmanteeqi/
 
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