Horns vs Bears thread
- Thread starter Pomspoms
- Start date
Hillcityhorn
100+ Posts
Harsin wasn't coming here. Not after what happened when he was here the first time...
Clean
5,000+ Posts
Baylor does seem better coached than us. They are very disciplined. They had one penalty the whole game and zero last week. Just eliminating penalties probably would have won us several games we lost this year.
Sark will get at least four years, just as Strong and Herman did. There’s no point in arguing over the hire. Everyone seemed happy with it at the time. Baylor did more with less than we did, just as they’ve done in recruiting.
Sark will get at least four years, just as Strong and Herman did. There’s no point in arguing over the hire. Everyone seemed happy with it at the time. Baylor did more with less than we did, just as they’ve done in recruiting.
I just will never ever ever get people who throw their hands up and cry hopeless in year 1 of a new coach. They may end up being right..maybe wrong. History shows it is very hard to tell...very hard to tell sometimes after 2+ years sometimes even.
More spuge from the google/amazon petulant child I want it all and I want it perfect and I want it now modern day "man"
Many coaches have had poor records and marked deficiencies in year 1 of a tenure...many beyond that even..and still become successful.
DO you think he and the team will have a better chance with fans riding them down all the time or showing faith and belief and support??
A legitimate answer please.
And don't say they don't read fan boards or don't hear or don't know.
EVERYONE knows that is part of our culture.
S M H
More spuge from the google/amazon petulant child I want it all and I want it perfect and I want it now modern day "man"
Many coaches have had poor records and marked deficiencies in year 1 of a tenure...many beyond that even..and still become successful.
DO you think he and the team will have a better chance with fans riding them down all the time or showing faith and belief and support??
A legitimate answer please.
And don't say they don't read fan boards or don't hear or don't know.
EVERYONE knows that is part of our culture.
S M H
A stellar (or above average) QB. Can't win without one. There's a reason Casey Thompson hasn't sniffed the field before this year.
Look what "above average" QB play has done for: Ole Miss, Auburn and SMU. These teams are Texas without their current QB.
A "stellar" QB gives you a shot at the NC: Oklahoma for example. Oklahoma has the best QB in college football. Will most likely win the Heisman this year and next year.
Herman was so toxic that any further association with him would have been devastating.
His last two recruiting classes were way overrated so it should not be surprising that skill and leadership are totally missing now.
Winner, winner, chicken dinner!
Yep. No doubt. Tom had to go. It extended way beyond the field.
I'm with Sark and Pete Kawittacowskee. Give them some time.
Of course, Sark wasn't who I was lobbying for (lobbying far, far outside the inner circle of the big cigars, for what it's worth...).
Great post. Mandatory reading for the 1/5 or so of our fanbase who seems to constantly think the sky has fallen. We won't know without time.
Here are some FACTS:
Head coach--------------------First year----Nat'l Championships
Darrell Royal-Texas------------6-4-1---------------3
John McKay-USC----------------4-6-----------------4
Woody Hayes-Ohio St---------4-3-2--------------5
Bear Bryant-Alabama----------5-4-1--------------6
A bit off topic, but...
Another interesting tidbit about the 4 coaches above is that they were all military veterans.
Royal - US Army Air Corps
McKay - US Army Air Corps - B29 tailgunner
Hayes - USN - commanded a destroyer escort & a coastal patrol ship*
Bryant - USN
* I bet that man ran a "tight" ship
Last edited:
There's a reason I normally ignore your posts, like post # 608 above. The 4 coaches listed could get away with a hell of a lot more discipline and flat out kick *** tactics than coaches today in order to right the culture and instill hard nosed football. No social media or anything to aid in the entitlement attitude.
So, comparing coaches from 4, 5, and 6 decades ago to what happens now is ridiculous.
And, I don't give a **** if you or any other poster thinks I or any other posters are petulant children. Sounds like name calling and a violation of the Posting Guidelines.
So, comparing coaches from 4, 5, and 6 decades ago to what happens now is ridiculous.
And, I don't give a **** if you or any other poster thinks I or any other posters are petulant children. Sounds like name calling and a violation of the Posting Guidelines.
Last edited:
moondog_LFZ
5,000+ Posts
Yet, Aranda's first year he went 2-7 I believe?
Nice turnaround.
Not saying Sark will do the same but showing it's possible to come into a dysfunctional program and look like a steaming pile of crap your first year and look totally different the next.
Remember last year? Covid? Social upheaval? The Eyes? Players threatening to not play because outside issues?
Sark is supposed to come in and turn these guys into world beaters his first season?
Some of these players heads were screwed up long before Sark got here.
I agree with the post saying the first half scheme and play shows what our coaches can do.
The second half penalties, fumbles, bumbles and collapse shows the mentality, lack of focus, attitude and lack of leadership among the players.
It's going to take another season or two.
We are rebuilding at this point.
Statalyzer
10,000+ Posts
Records of those teams before those coaches got there:
Texas: 4-5-1, 5-5, 1-9
USC: 1-9, 4-5-1, 8-2
Ohio St: 6-3, 7-1-2, 6-3
Alabama: 0-10, 2-7-1, 2-7-1
So the Buckeyes were actually in good shape, but the others had a combined 1 winning season, 1 .500 season, and 7 losing seasons leading up to those guys tenures.
They were also 7-9, 7-8, 3-13 the previous years.
I'm not saying we fire Sark halfway through his first year, I'm just saying, we need to stop regularly comparing first-year coach struggles to guys who took over programs that were far more in the dumps than we were, as if all first years are the same.
No, but I'd like him to at least not come in and make them look worse than they were the previous season.
moondog_LFZ
5,000+ Posts
Does he have access to the same players that were here last year?
Duck Dodgers
1,000+ Posts
Main difference from last year is no Sam. That man willed Texas to several wins, and almost pushed a bad Texas team to a win the Cotton Bowl.
But where's the player leadership on this team?
Look, it's not just this board - any fan board of a team who's about ready to fire, or has fired their coach wants to think "We have the TALENT!!!!, we just need a coach to use all our wonderful, skilled players and they'll go 11-1".
It takes a year of more bad results with the new coach for reality to sink in, and for people to realize all those 7-4 teams really didn't have very good players - either they weren't that good to begin with (star ranking inflation when going to big time schools), or they were not developed and now are rusty ore than can't be refined at this point.
The second year for a coach is the true acid test. We'll see what things look like then.
But where's the player leadership on this team?
Look, it's not just this board - any fan board of a team who's about ready to fire, or has fired their coach wants to think "We have the TALENT!!!!, we just need a coach to use all our wonderful, skilled players and they'll go 11-1".
It takes a year of more bad results with the new coach for reality to sink in, and for people to realize all those 7-4 teams really didn't have very good players - either they weren't that good to begin with (star ranking inflation when going to big time schools), or they were not developed and now are rusty ore than can't be refined at this point.
The second year for a coach is the true acid test. We'll see what things look like then.
I think you are underestimating the mediocrity we have at the QB, O-line, receiver and LB positions.
Sam was able to carry the team on his shoulders occasionally. As were Duvernay, and Ossai.
We do have Bijon. That’s where our great player list begins and ends.
Next year could be very different if our youth matures and the portal brings in some beef up front.
Last edited:
It is interesting how great teams and great coaches develop. Any great program has lots of angry fans with what seem to most of us unrealistic expectations. Coach K has a great history and back story. Maybe he needs players for his system or to change his systems to what offenses are doing now. It's a troubling pattern to show we you can outplay opponents for most of a game, see get crushed I. Quarter 4.
Baylors 247 composite recruiting rankings the last 5 years:
41st
50th
35th
29th
40th
Yeah, Baylor is significantly better coached than us.
Duck Dodgers
1,000+ Posts
I think they just run out of gas. I don't follow the depth chart / playing time close enough to definitively state things, but by the 3rd and 4th quarter, with little substitutions, the players are probably worn out and can't execute at the same level.
You often see that when poor teams play well for a half, then collapse at the end against top 10 teams. They don't have a full roster of 40 players to run in and out to get breaks, so by the second half are getting blown off the line of scrimmage, and out ran by WR's.
Which explains say the OU loss, and maybe OSU. But even 2nd string Texas players should be better than second string Baylor players, who have recruited in the 40-50's the past few years. So a pitiful result yesterday. What can ya do?
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
Devastating is what I call blowing double digit 2nd half leads 3 games in a row
Bottom line is, we made a bad hire and our future looks bad. Real bad. I bleed orange, and I'm pissed, sad, disappointed. ... sark isn't the answer unless the question is Do we want an experienced head coach who has a nickname of Seven Win Steve
Before the season I quoted a disturbing stat about Sark that I heard from Rod Babers on the Horn radio show. During his time as head coach before coming to Texas he had won 1 game against ranked opponents...it's been a while so maybe it was 2 games.
He has a team full of blue chip players that everyone in the country wanted and hired supposedly the best staff in the entire country except for maybe Saban's and this is the best we can do?
We'll get a couple more years to see if this is just transition pain or if we can expect 4-5 losses every single year out of him.
This is not true of the O-line. When TH had been here a year or so I was asked what I thought about him and I said, "If I have a concern, it's his inability to get good offensive linemen."
People love to point out TH's composite recruiting rankings, but has anyone looked at the rankings of the OL specifically? TH had highly touted recruiting classes, to be sure, but IDT he filled his team's biggest needs very well.
This^^^^^
The problem is....while most fanbases will express frustration or disappointment in the interim....this fan base goes nuclear...and exacerbates the issue IMHO
This seems like a good place to clarify something I think some of us are trying to say, Vol..I do not disagree with the sentiment of your post....but would you/we have said the same about Aranda last year, as a fan? Do you think BU looked significantly better coached last year, in year 1 of Aranda's tenure? Context is everything. The context is it is year 2 after a dismal season in year 1 for Aranda (coming into a program that had been setup well by a coach who is now coaching in the NFL, mind you) and year 1 for our coach who has some talent but inherited a program with many troubling issues both on and off the field. No, the initial look for Sark isnt good...I'm not arguing that...BU...and ou...and osu... and isu... all look like better coached teams...but they have for years and it's time for us to try a different approach (as a fanbase) and now would be a good time to start. Some of us warned it would be a 3-4+ loss season. How did you all think losses would look?
I'll add Luke Fickel in the argument who was 4-6 his first year.
I didn't really pay much attention to Baylor last year but based on record you're right they were terrible coming a year after playing for the conference title only winning 2 games. Why did they lose all of those games? I know he fired Larry Fedora the OC, Joe Wickline the O-line coach and Jorge Munoz the passing game coordinator after the first season. Maybe that had something to do with all of their close losses last year and playing better this year.
What I don't think we should do is give Sark a pass because Arranda had a tough year at Baylor. Our defense is ranked 108th in the country out of 131 teams. TCU and Kansas are both ranked below us. OSU is 7th and Baylor is 36th. Do I think we should have a top 10 defense in our first year? NO, but 108th is pathetic and even with this transition should be no worse than top 50-60. Is that unreasonable? Not to me, our result is poor coaching. I personally don't think coach K is right for the job and I have zero confidence in his ability to improve next year and needs to go along with most of the defensive coaches.
Our offense has been very good for three quarters of every game. Sark admitted in a presser last week that he was not the same play caller in the second half as he is in the first half. Again, that's on coaching. I don't know why he would call what he calls, but it's costing us wins in VERY winnable games. I believe he can learn from his mistakes and improve more next year, but we'll see.
If the defense continues to cave in next year like it is this year there's nothing that's going to keep us from losing 4+ games again.
Great post. Mandatory reading for the 1/5 or so of our fanbase who seems to constantly think the sky has fallen. We won't know without time.
Here are some FACTS:
Head coach--------------------First year----Nat'l Championships
Darrell Royal-Texas------------6-4-1---------------3
John McKay-USC----------------4-6-----------------4
Woody Hayes-Ohio St---------4-3-2--------------5
Bear Bryant-Alabama----------5-4-1--------------6
A bit off topic, but...
Another interesting tidbit about the 4 coaches above is that they were all military veterans.
Royal - US Army Air Corps
McKay - US Army Air Corps - B29 tailgunner
Hayes - USN - commanded a destroyer escort & a coastal patrol ship*
Bryant - USN
* I bet that man ran a "tight" ship
More facts encouraging some patience in the first year of two of a new coaching regime (and from more recent good coaches):
Mel Tucker - Michigan State - was 2-5 in his first year with the Spartans. Now look at him.
Speaking of Michigan State, none other than Nick Saban was 6-5-1 and 6-6 his first two years as head coach of the Spartans. Saban was 7-6 in his first year at Alabama.
Luke Fickell - Cincinatti - is near the top of the list of coaching talent. I'm thinking he'll be at USC next year, we'll see. His first year at Cincinatti was 4-8. Now, he'll likely be taking a team with so-so talent to the playoffs.
Year-after-year of crummy performance (or mediocre performance with no discernable improvement) means you're shown the door--and rightfully so in big time college football. But folks should be patient the first year or two.
More facts encouraging some patience in the first year of two of a new coaching regime (and from more recent good coaches):
Mel Tucker - Michigan State - was 2-5 in his first year with the Spartans. Now look at him.
Speaking of Michigan State, none other than Nick Saban was 6-5-1 and 6-6 his first two years as head coach of the Spartans. Saban was 7-6 in his first year at Alabama.
Luke Fickell - Cincinatti - is near the top of the list of coaching talent. I'm thinking he'll be at USC next year, we'll see. His first year at Cincinatti was 4-8. Now, he'll likely be taking a team with so-so talent to the playoffs.
Year-after-year of crummy performance (or mediocre performance with no discernable improvement) means you're shown the door--and rightfully so in big time college football. But folks should be patient the first year or two.
What you're saying is what I've always said. Good coaches should be playing for or winning some sort of championship by year three.
It doesn't mean we cant complain about the obvious things like coach K is in over his head and needs to go yesterday. It was a bad hire and move on down the road. Just like we new Vance Bedford was the wrong guy from the get go for Charlie but Charlie insisted on hanging on which cost him his job.
I just mentioned in another thread that Dave Arranda fired most of his offensive staff after last year. I'm not suggesting Sark is the wrong guy yet, but if K is back next year and we still have a defense ranked in the 70's to 100's I'll probably be calling for Sark's job because he's incapable of making the tough decisions in a timely manner.
Major difference was that Charlie couldn't get anyone to take the job or work for him. Even with outrageous guaranteed contracts, every assistant coach knew Charlie wasn't going to work out, thus he could not get anyone to come to Austin.
Sark doesn't have that problem. There aren't any Leon Fullers or Rick Lantz' or Joe Lee Dunn's out there.
TheHornSupremacy
< 25 Posts
You seem to have some appreciation here, so I’ll not make too full a judgement just yet, but I’ve truly seen very few posts in this forum for decades now more inherently flawed than this one. Aside from the incredibly obvious knee-jerk in first year over a coach (or coaches) with same players of same caliber (or less) than last year, you’re 8 games in now with a lighting the village on fire mentality b/c in the final qtr of 4 of those games the defense couldn’t go ahead and carry yet ANOTHER 15 min of Time of Possession? Have you even watched any of these games?
If the first 3 quarters are irrelevant, then I guess you may have a small argument. Tell me what the score was and the ToP after 3 qtrs in last three games please. You may also want to hit the box scores for 2H offensive possessions. Maybe read a little on the inter webs as well from those who actually coach and play the game to examine his career and accomplishments for 5 minutes. I’ll very comfortably take a few more years of that before reading one more word of internet armchair hostility, thank you. If Sark were to fire coach K this year after what I’ve seen, I’d lose respect for Sark, not the other way around.
The D is getting more criticism than warranted...though some is warranted.
My view of both of the last 2 games was that it was mostly lost by the offense.
Don't know how anyone can really understand much about football and see it otherwise.
The D has been terrible against the run, was abysmal vs Arky, and let ou climb back in it....But without the offense's 2nd half collapse vs ou, a total breakdown vs osu, and failure to capitalize vs bu...this team has only 2 losses and possibly 1. Can't expect perfection from the offense so I'll give em one...let's say we are 6-2 if the offense was more opportunistic, consistent, and didn't disappear. They aren't doing the D many favors...other than some hot starts which I give them plenty of credit for. However, these last two games looked like the D came out to play then were demoralized after the O's failures. They need to be better, but again, context is everything.
My view of both of the last 2 games was that it was mostly lost by the offense.
Don't know how anyone can really understand much about football and see it otherwise.
The D has been terrible against the run, was abysmal vs Arky, and let ou climb back in it....But without the offense's 2nd half collapse vs ou, a total breakdown vs osu, and failure to capitalize vs bu...this team has only 2 losses and possibly 1. Can't expect perfection from the offense so I'll give em one...let's say we are 6-2 if the offense was more opportunistic, consistent, and didn't disappear. They aren't doing the D many favors...other than some hot starts which I give them plenty of credit for. However, these last two games looked like the D came out to play then were demoralized after the O's failures. They need to be better, but again, context is everything.
And the jury is still out for me. I admit i expected better. But perhaps, maybe, Sark has made calls in keeping with the level of talent he has. Maybe he feels he is somewhat hamstrung. So i give him benefit of the doubt. And especially i give him benefit of the doubt due to recruiting trending upwards and looking promising.
NEW: Pro Sports Forums
Cowboys, Texans, Rangers, Astros, Mavs, Rockets, etc. Pro Longhorns. This is the place.
Pro Sports Forums
Pro Sports Forums
Recent Threads
-
Random Off-Season News
- Started by LonghornCatholic
- Replies: 8K
- On The Field
-
Coaching News and Rumors
- Started by Chop
- Replies: 5K
- On The Field
-
Texas High School Football
- Started by LonghornCatholic
- Replies: 703
- On The Field
-
TLSN newsletter #4 Volume IX
- Started by Billy Dale
- Replies: 2
- On The Field
-
2023 pro football transaction tracker
- Started by orngblud
- Replies: 291
- On The Field
-
Archibald Charles Manning
- Started by LonghornCatholic
- Replies: 126
- On The Field
-
Hornfans 2.0 — 10th Anniversary Today
- Started by Dionysus
- Replies: 26
- On The Field
-
Trouble in Paradise?
- Started by Vol Horn 4 Life
- Replies: 3K
- On The Field
-
Poll: Separate Forums for Pro Sports?
- Started by Dionysus
- Replies: 21
- On The Field
