Good news on Sam

ProdigalHorn said:
you play Sam if he's ready to go.
Click to expand...

This assumes that "ready to go" is a binary concept. Truth is, no player in the middle of a season is ever 100% ready to go. So the question is "how ready to go is Sam?", which is a much more nuanced analysis.

I don't have any unique insight into Sam's health, so I'll leave that to Tom Herman and the training staff (as if I have any choice in the matter, lol). I will make the general observation, though, that across pretty much all teams in all sports, players come back from injury too early.
 
NJlonghorn said:
across pretty much all teams in all sports, players come back from injury too early.
Click to expand...

Agree.

I'm hopeful the coaches / trainers don't let Sam's grit and determination to play rush them / convince them, he is "ready" or "well enough" to start / play when he needs a little more time to heal. The decision risks the outcome of the rest of the season.... we will see.
 
If Sam appears ready to play, but they start Shane to be conservative and give Sam more rest and we lose....this board will melt down.

If Sam starts and we lose, this board will melt down.

If Sam starts and it's an ugly win, this board will melt down.
 
horninchicago said:
If Sam appears ready to play, but they start Shane to be conservative and give Sam more rest and we lose....this board will melt down.

If Sam starts and we lose, this board will melt down.

If Sam starts and it's an ugly win, this board will melt down.
Click to expand...

I see what you did there HIC... so basically we're screwed regardless of the outcome! :lmao:
 
moondog_LFZ said:
I don't agree.
I think we are all becoming accustomed to and able to appreciate an ugly win.
Now, if Sam starts, we win ugly and lose Sam for the season because of worsening an existing injury, this board will melt down.
Click to expand...
The board was close to melt down mode after the ugly win Saturday. And, of course, my post was sort of tongue in cheek.
 
horninchicago said:
The board was close to melt down mode after the ugly win Saturday. And, of course, my post was sort of tongue in cheek.
Click to expand...

Well, when no points are scored in the second half and defense tries to give the game away in the fourth quarter, the fans will complain.
Regardless of who the QB is or who we are playing.
I don't know if that's a melt down. ;)
 
I just do not want a Colt McCoy v. A&M in 2006 situation where we have a capable backup (Snead) and Mack Brown played an injured Colt anyway and we lost 7-12 due to Colt being hurt and unable to make throws he would normally make.
 
Htown77 said:
I just do not want a Colt McCoy v. A&M in 2006 situation where we have a capable backup (Snead) and Mack Brown played an injured Colt anyway and we lost 7-12 due to Colt being hurt and unable to make throws he would normally make.
Click to expand...

I don't think TH would do that quite frankly. He'll play the guy he feels gives us the best chance to win. He's not as tied to playing the starter as Mack was. Think about how much Ingram played as a freshman against OU. Mack didn't play Benson until after the OU game.
 
wadster said:
don't think TH would do that quite frankly. He'll play the guy he feels gives us the best chance to win. He's not as tied to playing the starter as Mack was. Think about how much Ingram played as a freshman against OU. Mack didn't play Benson until after the OU game.
Click to expand...
But is he more likely to play Sam when he is not fully recovered instead of a healthy Shane because he feels a less than 100% Sam gives the team a better chance than a 100% Shane?

And would the fan base be as likely to melt down with an ugly win QB'ed by Shane if that provides Sam another week to heal?

So many permutations. :smile1:
 
caryhorn said:
Having a QB that can run is very different from having an Offensive scheme that asks the QB to be a primary runner that must hit the line straight on multiple times throughout the game. Sam is the latter, and him getting hurt is not a surprise. Note his concussions from last year.

For example Murray at ou is a QB who can run to make something happen off a broken play. Most teams have this sort of QB--who can run enough to occasionally save a broken play.
Click to expand...

Right. The running back position is the shortest career of all positions in the NFL due to the punishment they take. Sam is often used as a running back in this offense. He is not running because he is exercising an option of an RPO offense, like other college quarterbacks. In many cases he is a between the tackles running back and leads the team in yardage gained. Coach Patterson refers to him as a fullback playing quarterback. Sam will see more injuries in this scheme because that is the nature of the running back position, expecially when the runs are into the teeth of the defense. Great running backs at least know how to make tacklers miss and reduce the head on impact. Tony Dorsett and Emmitt Smith were masters of this. Sam has none of these skills.

Quarterbacks have scrambled on outside runs and draw plays by design, or for recovery on broken plays, since the beginning of the game. I don’t know of a single team in the NFL that had designed running quarterback plays into the line like those of a running back. Texas does this to get an extra blocker, but it does so at the expense of wear and tear on the quarterback. Although he is a gamer, I do not thonk Sam can take four years of this. The average career of an NFL running back is less than three years.
 
Last edited:
The horns have already had three ugly wins, almost a fourth quarter meltdown against OU and an ugly loss to Maryland, so what difference would an ugly win on the road against OSU make if either QB started? As long as the horns win, is all that matters. I think it would probably be a bigger meltdown if Shane starts and they end up blowing out OSU.
 
Chinstrap said:
Right. The running back position is the shortest career of all positions in the NFL due to the punishment they take. Sam is often used as a running back in this offense. He is not running because he is exercising an option of an RPO offense, like other college quarterbacks. In many cases he is a between the tackles running back and leads the team in yardage gained. Coach Patterson refers to him as a fullback playing quarterback. Sam will see more injuries in this scheme because that is the nature of the running back position, expecially when the runs are into the teeth of the defense. Great running backs at least know how to make tacklers miss and reduce the head on impact. Tony Dorsett and Emmitt Smith were masters of this. Sam has none of these skills.

Quarterbacks have scrambled on outside runs and draw plays by design, or for recovery on broken plays, since the beginning of the game. I don’t know of a single team in the NFL that had designed running quarterback plays into the line like those of a running back. Texas does this to get an extra blocker, but it does so at the expense of wear and tear on the quarterback. Although he is a gamer, I do not thonk Sam can take four years of this. The average career of an NFL running back is less than three years.
Click to expand...

Do you think Vince ran too much? Tim Tebow? Robert Griffin? Cam Newton? Deshaun Watson? Johnny Manziel? Lamar Jackson? All those QBs from BYU, KSU, NU, etc. Besides the NFL, what percentage of college football teams that, for example, won 11 or more games in a season over the past 25 years (or ever) had a QB used as a runner similar to or more than Sam Ehlinger? Probably 70%? It's not a novel concept by any means.

Your argument seems to be: NFL running backs have short careers, except for great ones like Smith or Dorsett. We run designed runs for Sam E, so that makes him basically an NFL running back for comparison sake, and yet "Sam has none of these skills."
 
horninchicago said:
If Sam appears ready to play, but they start Shane to be conservative and give Sam more rest and we lose....this board will melt down.

If Sam starts and we lose, this board will melt down.

If Sam starts and it's an ugly win, this board will melt down.
Click to expand...
Horninchicago, I have a very simple solution. We just need to win in Stillwater...

:trophy:
 
VYFan said:
Do you think Vince ran too much? Tim Tebow? Robert Griffin? Cam Newton? Deshaun Watson? Johnny Manziel? Lamar Jackson? All those QBs from BYU, KSU, NU, etc. Besides the NFL, what percentage of college football teams that, for example, won 11 or more games in a season over the past 25 years (or ever) had a QB used as a runner similar to or more than Sam Ehlinger? Probably 70%? It's not a novel concept by any means.
Click to expand...
Every QB you named, except Tebow, had a knack for making tacklers miss, or shifting to lesson the blow at impact.

Sam often runs to contact, and bowls into the tackler, usually gaining an extra yard or two in the process. Sam's style puts head, shoulders, neck at greater risk of injury.

Everybody knows this. It's football. This is why guys with quickness and shiftiness use those skills to lesson the punishment inherent in the game.
 
caryhorn said:
Sam often runs to contact, and bowls into the tackler, usually gaining an extra yard or two in the process. Sam's style puts head, shoulders, neck at greater risk of injury.
Click to expand...
I actually believe that Sam has been more elusive than last year. He’s cutting back, often pulling up and occasionally sliding. He’s taking much greater care and as a result, even with his increased attempts this year, until last Saturday there had not been an issue.
 
caryhorn said:
Every QB you named, except Tebow, had a knack for making tacklers miss, or shifting to lesson the blow at impact.

Sam often runs to contact, and bowls into the tackler, usually gaining an extra yard or two in the process. Sam's style puts head, shoulders, neck at greater risk of injury.

Everybody knows this. It's football. This is why guys with quickness and shiftiness use those skills to lesson the punishment inherent in the game.
Click to expand...
So is your ultimate point that Ehlinger shouldn’t be our quarterback? That he’s not good enough? I don’t want to go through all of your posts so just tell me honestly whether you’ been on record wanting Buchelle to be the QB all this time. It would greatly help me know what you are trying to say.
 
VYFan said:
So is your ultimate point that Ehlinger shouldn’t be our quarterback? That he’s not good enough? I don’t want to go through all of your posts so just tell me honestly whether you’ been on record wanting Buchelle to be the QB all this time. It would greatly help me know what you are trying to say.
Click to expand...
That is not what he is saying. With the current offense, Sam is definitely the man to be the quarter back. Caryhorn is simply saying that the offense and Sam's style of running is more subject to injury than MOST other running quarterbacks, with the exception of maybe Tebow. We will see if the run plays remain the same for Sam, and if so, time will only tell if the injuries add up for him. Everybody hopes for the best because this offense needs him and he is a great kid, a leader and a real gamer.
 
VYFan said:
So is your ultimate point that Ehlinger shouldn’t be our quarterback? That he’s not good enough? I don’t want to go through all of your posts so just tell me honestly whether you’ been on record wanting Buchelle to be the QB all this time. It would greatly help me know what you are trying to say.
Click to expand...
I would have given Shane the edge to start the season, . And the Maryland and Tulsa games did nothing to change my mind. Then Sam turned up his play. He began to take care of the ball; no int's since Maryland; and the in game performance improved. He played winning ball from USC until he got hurt. His play clearly improved, and he is the clear starter. He's the best we have to play TH's offense. He gives us the best chance of winning. Case closed.

Sam is a big, strong kid, and he loves contact. He makes smaller D-backs pay for getting in his way. And I agree, he has been coached to slide more, try to avoid the big hit, etc.; and it has paid off until he got hurt in the BU game. Sam's instinct is to run like a fullback. That's obvious. It's one of the things that makes him a leader. He will sacrifice his body to make the extra yard when we need it.
Chinstrap said:
That is not what he is saying. With the current offense, Sam is definitely the man to be the quarter back. Caryhorn is simply saying that the offense and Sam's style of running is more subject to injury than MOST other running quarterbacks, with the exception of maybe Tebow. We will see if the run plays remain the same for Sam, and if so, time will only tell if the injuries add up for him. Everybody hopes for the best because this offense needs him and he is a great kid, a leader and a real gamer.
Click to expand...
This^^^.
 
Last edited:
This also sounds like good news
IT says the off week has also been good for Keaontay Ingram --

"He's feeling the best he's felt since fall camp and should be a big part of the game plan against OK State."​
 
Joe Fan said:
This also sounds like good news
IT says the off week has also been good for Keaontay Ingram --

"He's feeling the best he's felt since fall camp and should be a big part of the game plan against OK State."​
Click to expand...
Blow their doors off, Keaontay!
Oh wait. It's in Oklahoma, there are no doors in Oklahoma. My bad, but just a figure of speech.
 
Joe Fan said:
This also sounds like good news
IT says the off week has also been good for Keaontay Ingram --

"He's feeling the best he's felt since fall camp and should be a big part of the game plan against OK State."​
Click to expand...
I would be fine with a slow burn all game. 3 yards and a cloud of dust to keep our QBs from carrying the load. It will also keep the pokes' offense off the field. The only way the pokes win is if we get into a shootout.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Recent Threads

Back
Top