General Presidential Campaign: Trump vs Hillary

Joe Fan said:
It is not obvious. It may be real, it may be fake.



It was legitimate when it was first questioned in this thread, some time back. Something you ridiculed people about at the time and ever since (until now it seems). You were wrong. A righteous poster would admit as much.
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OK, it was pretty obvious to me but I'm not inclined to believe any crazy internet picture associated with the Clinton's.

I don't believe it was initially legitimate. Do we need to revisit the "injection device", the stool and the pictures claiming the man assisting her was a doctor? How about the purported seizure that was a looped clip from a specific angle of which looked fine from a different angle and reporters on the scene saying nothing was abnormal?

The coughing fits were right to be questioned. This event leads even more fuel to the fire. The rest of the conspiracy garbage spread by amateur doctors was tripe and deserved to be called out as such, despite the politically biased cheering section.
 
Seattle Husker said:
....
.... Do we need to revisit the "injection device", the stool and the pictures claiming the man assisting her was a doctor? How about the purported seizure that was a looped clip from a specific angle of which looked fine from a different angle and reporters on the scene saying nothing was abnormal?............
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On her "handler," the question was asked "Who is this guy?" No factual assertion was made. No one knew who he was. Just that he was always there, near her, shadowing her, especially when things started gong poorly. You have to admit he looks pretty old and overweight to be an active SS agent in the field. Under the circumstances, that question was legitimate.

The pictures of the stool were legit as well. Once the fotos of her with a stool were collected and posted on twitter, she immediately stopped using a stool/chair. In so doing, she confirmed the story herself. Since then, there have been more pics of her constantly using hand rails or needing something or someone to lean on. As we just saw her doing on Sunday, right before the collapse. It's difficult to believe any reasonable person could conclude from all of that, as you seem to do here, that she is steady on her feet.

On the laughing-seizure in front of the press, I say the jury is still out about that. It is very odd looking and unnatural. I think that footage like this and wanting to avoid any more of it is one of the reasons she has been hiding from the press for so long. They were just trying to get her to the finish line, hoping nothing bad happened when she was in front of the cameras (like she almost got away with on 9/11). The truth is, they dont know when something will happen to her. They kept her away from the media as long as they could and now they are just medicating the hell out of her, hoping for the best.

Lastly, that was not an apology either.


 
Hollandtx said:
The Hillary supporters I have been exposed to are absolutely blinded by her. Any mention or question, no matter how benign, of an issue is met with a rush of scorn, indignation, and the belief that you are indeed in the basket of deplorables.
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Is this really driven by admiration and support for Hillary, or is it driven by an overwhelming hatred of Trump and a need to rally around anyone opposing him? Most Hillary supporters I know reluctantly admit that she's far less than ideal but would vote for pretty much any Democratic nominee and feel a unique motivation to deny the White House to Trump, whom they view as peddling overt racism and dangerous nationalism.

The only enthusiastic Hillary supporters I see are former bra-burners - Baby Boomer-aged feminists who see electing a female president (so long as she's a liberal female) as the fulfillment of their political dreams and have viewed Hillary as their greatest hope. Essentially, it's the same people who were excited about Geraldine Ferraro.

Hollandtx said:
Oh, she's so fierce. Attack the people voting for Trump instead of the man. That is how to win over the undecided. That comment made me so angry, I almost want to vote for Trump just to see her lose. Almost.
I have found that the hypocrisy of most people on the left is almost unbelievable.
Shouldn't every candidate be trying to win over every voter, and at least leave the door open to them if she wins? Instead, it was incredibly obvious she holds great disdain for anyone who doesn't agree with her...these next few weeks are going to be horrible.
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Ditto. There are a few things that could get me to hold my nose and vote for Trump (and then go take a shower). One is the hypocrisy of sanctimoniously demonizing Trump for attacking groups with a broad brush while doing the same thing to those who may choose to vote for Trump.

There are other factors as well. The unwillingness to admit that Hillary has major ethical problems concerns me, because it implies that her level of ethics is acceptable in a President. That's dangerous. Even if she wins, it's important that it not be assumed that her past conduct is tolerable.

Finally, if identity politics becomes a cornerstone of her policy agenda, I can't accept that. The reason I don't vote based on identity politics is that I presume that there's a general understanding that basic ideals of fairness, justice, and the rule of law override racial, gender, religious, and ethnic identity. If that presumption stops being reliable, then I have no choice but to"vote my identity" as a simple matter of self-preservation and defense.
 
From my experience, the "woman" support spans younger than baby boomer feminists. My wife is in the "it's time for a woman in the White House" and feels there is nobody more prepared that HRC. From her perspective, HRC has been more attacked (vetted?) than any previous female thus has demonstrated an ability to persevere said attacks. She acknowledges my points that much of the attacks are warranted and a result of self serving decisions (email scandal, "deplorable" comment) yet that doesn't deter her feeling that HRC is the right woman to trailblaze the path for a female POTUS.

She isn't the typical liberal though. As a financial conservative, she looks at our own federal tax bill with disdain. As you can expect, Trump is a running joke in our house.
 
Based on the rallies, Trump does seem to consistently have the enthusiasm factor.
Back when HRC was doing a handful of rallies, they would have to close sections of the halls she rented to they did not look empty
But it is another question entirely whether Trump's advantage on this translates


 
What bothered me has been the different people in the media pretending Hillary is perfectly well or her illness was not a big deal since Sunday. I was in the "hillary's health is being blown way out of proportion" camp. However, I saw clear proof that there is a health issue Sunday and they admitted she had pneumonia. She may very well be okay with rest and this will be forgotten, but this is beyond the "nothing to see here attitude" some in the media have had since Sunday. Maybe it really is just "never trump" dems, but like I said earlier, I think I am out of touch because I just do not understand being so invested in either of these candidates that I could try to cover up for either of them so obviously like that. Just my perspective from the "it is going to suck either way, voting for a third party in protest" camp.

Also, I am told on the football board I am apprently supporting Charlie Strong for president. Fine by me. Better than Trump or Hillary. It would be a rough first two years learning on the job, but with some key cabinet changes and early accomplishments in year 3 it would be clear that President Strong would have America on the right track.
 
Seattle Husker said:
From my experience, the "woman" support spans younger than baby boomer feminists. My wife is in the "it's time for a woman in the White House" and feels there is nobody more prepared that HRC.
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It undoubtedly goes beyond the Baby Boomers. However, I think the feminist boomers are the most enthusiastic and most blindly partisan about it. Your wife may think it's time for a woman president, but it sounds like she isn't blind to Hillary's many faults.
 
Htown77 said:
What bothered me has been the different people in the media pretending Hillary is perfectly well or her illness was not a big deal since Sunday. I was in the "hillary's health is being blown way out of proportion" camp. However, I saw clear proof that there is a health issue Sunday and they admitted she had pneumonia. She may very well be okay with rest and this will be forgotten, but this is beyond the "nothing to see here attitude" some in the media have had since Sunday. Maybe it really is just "never trump" dems, but like I said earlier, I think I am out of touch because I just do not understand being so invested in either of these candidates that I could try to cover up for either of them so obviously like that. Just my perspective from the "it is going to suck either way, voting for a third party in protest" camp.

Also, I am told on the football board I am apprently supporting Charlie Strong for president. Fine by me. Better than Trump or Hillary. It would be a rough first two years learning on the job, but with some early accomplishments in year 3 it would be clear that President Strong would have America on the right track.
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In a way, Hillary's health problems may be somewhat of a positive for me. I don't hope for anyone's death, but I could live with Tim Kaine as President if she passed away or became sick enough that she had to retire. I'd consider him a significant upgrade over her.
 
I have to say that Hillary's 'basket of deplorables" comment is outrageous and concerning. One of the 20 stupidest things I've heard a political candidate say. Of course, she's running against a guy that has 5 or 6 spots on that list.
 
Crockett said:
I have to say that Hillary's 'basket of deplorables" comment is outrageous and concerning. One of the 20 stupidest things I've heard a political candidate say. Of course, she's running against a guy that has 5 or 6 spots on that list.
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The HRC campaign typically doesn't allow press into fundraisers but in this case they did. WTF was HRC thinking?

Today (or yesterday) Trump stated that the President was holding interest rates down and leaving it up to the next POTUS to raise them and the stock market to fall. Someone needs to educate Trump on how the Federal Reserve system works. I don't think this guy knows anything beyond Real Estate.
 
Mr. Deez said:
In a way, Hillary's health problems may be somewhat of a positive for me. I don't hope for anyone's death, but I could live with Tim Kaine as President if she passed away or became sick enough that she had to retire. I'd consider him a significant upgrade over her.
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Deez, I don't know if you've watched or read the news in like the last month to month and a half, but it seems the roles have changed with Trump vs Hillary. Trump has been pretty mild and even stated concern about Hillary being ok. It doesn't matter if he's sincere or not. He's now saying the right things. The fact that he's changed and really hasn't said anything offensive in a while shows he's in to win. Meanwhile, Hillary is saying the most outlandish thing of any candidate ever calling millions of voters deplorable and many different phobias. Even you have to admit that he's figured it out. I know you hate this.
 
Seattle Husker said:
The HRC campaign typically doesn't allow press into fundraisers but in this case they did. WTF was HRC thinking?

Today (or yesterday) Trump stated that the President was holding interest rates down and leaving it up to the next POTUS to raise them and the stock market to fall. Someone needs to educate Trump on how the Federal Reserve system works. I don't think this guy knows anything beyond Real Estate.
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Husker, he didn't say Obama was holding interest rates down. He said Yellen was keeping them low to help the Administration's optics on the economy, which could potentially lead to a bubble and inflation. He specifically criticized Yellen (the person that really controls interest rates) and questioned the independence of the Fed.

I'm not sure I agree with him either on 1) if the Fed is truly apolitical and independent or 2) if interest rates are too low, but what I do know is that this is not an outrageous or new accusation about our monetary system.


9/9/2004 NBC News
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7089794/n...olitics-influence-fed-decisions/#.V9hunmUvKMQ

1986 Monetary Politics: The Federal Reserve and the Politics of Monetary Policy
http://www.cambridge.org/us/academi...-federal-reserve-and-politics-monetary-policy
Amazon product ASIN 0521312477
1/1922 - The Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science, JSTOR Read the last paragraph of the 1st column on p71 (This is an article p70-74)
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1014512?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
 
CsRE_XvVYAAw_gs.jpg
 
Dunno if true, but its out there now

"One of President Obama‘s senior advisors leaked sensational details of Hillary Clinton‘s secret battle with TWO mini-strokes during her tenure as Secretary of State, RadarOnline.com has exclusively learned.

Details of Hillary’s secret stroke crisis was first mentioned OPENLY amongst high-ranking Democrats in February last year, insiders told Radar....."

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-ne...ombshell-hillary-medical-details-two-strokes/
 
Another round of leaks is hitting
Should make for an interesting rest of the week
Click once to make more easily readable


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So the EiC of the National Enquirer thinks that Obama is feeding tabloids stories about Hillary's health to settle scores in the Clinton v. Obama 2008 drama? Plausible.
 
Horns11 said:
So the EiC of the National Enquirer thinks that Obama is feeding tabloids stories about Hillary's health to settle scores in the Clinton v. Obama 2008 drama? Plausible.
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Risky. Trump SCOTUS justices might be willing to roll back some of his pet projects.
 
Newly leaked emails reveal discussion b/w Jeffrey Leeds (a Dem mega donor) and Collin Powell
Basically - no love lost b/w Clintons and Obama
It is interesting to see these folks say the same exact stuff many of us do


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"Former Secretary of State Colin Powell vented to his associates earlier this year about Hillary Clinton’s attempts to rope him into her defense of her email practices, according to alleged leaked messages reviewed by POLITICO late Tuesday.

“I didn't tell Hillary to have a private server at home, connected to the Clinton Foundation, two contractors, took away 60,000 emails, had her own domain,” Powell said in one Feb. 4 email to former Reagan White House chief of staff Kenneth Duberstein, in the latest cache of hacked communications among top Washington insiders to emerge in the heat of this year’s presidential campaign.

In a separate email that day to Condoleezza Rice, who succeeded him as George W. Bush’s secretary of state, Powell wrote: “Been on the phone and email all afternoon. Hillary and Elijah Cummings have popped off.”

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/colin-powell-clinton-emails-228135
 
Oliver Stone says the Dem hack was an inside job --


"......... Stone called that idea (the Russians did it) a "great fiction."

The director ...... said the intelligence experts he has spoken with indicated that the DNC hack was "probably an inside job." He went on to specify that he believed the hack was perpetrated by Democrats within the committee. The revelations from the hack led directly to the resignation of DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz and other high-level officials."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats...ne-dnc-hack-was-an-inside-job-not-russia.html
 
Crockett said:
I have to say that Hillary's 'basket of deplorables" comment is outrageous and concerning. One of the 20 stupidest things I've heard a political candidate say. Of course, she's running against a guy that has 5 or 6 spots on that list.
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Yes, he has said plenty of crazy things, but I think it's more damaging for her. The reason is that the core of her appeal is that she's supposedly disciplined, measured, unifying, and inclusive, while he's unhinged, divisive, and says ugly things. By making a comment that's at least as offensive as his worst, she's helping to nullify one of her biggest perceived strengths.
 
Htown77 said:
What bothered me has been the different people in the media pretending Hillary is perfectly well or her illness was not a big deal since Sunday. I was in the "hillary's health is being blown way out of proportion" camp. However, I saw clear proof that there is a health issue Sunday and they admitted she had pneumonia. She may very well be okay with rest and this will be forgotten, but this is beyond the "nothing to see here attitude" some in the media have had since Sunday. Maybe it really is just "never trump" dems, but like I said earlier, I think I am out of touch because I just do not understand being so invested in either of these candidates that I could try to cover up for either of them so obviously like that. Just my perspective from the "it is going to suck either way, voting for a third party in protest" camp.

Also, I am told on the football board I am apprently supporting Charlie Strong for president. Fine by me. Better than Trump or Hillary. It would be a rough first two years learning on the job, but with some key cabinet changes and early accomplishments in year 3 it would be clear that President Strong would have America on the right track.
Click to expand...
Shawn Watson would be a terrible Vice President.
 
poor Colin Powell
he had to throw a "mini-tantrum at a Hamptons party" to get the HRC team's attention


"Sad thing, HRC could have killed this two years ago by merely telling everyone honestly what she had done and not tie me to it.”

“I told her staff three times not to try that gambit. I had to throw a mini tantrum at a Hampton’s party to get their attention. She keeps tripping into these ‘character’ minefields....”

--------------------

“They are going to dick up the legitimate and necessary use of emails with friggin record rules. I saw email more like a telephone than a cable machine. ..... As long as the stuff is unclassified. I had a secure State.gov machine. Everything HRC touches she kind of screws up with hubris.”


https://theintercept.com/2016/09/13/colin-powell-emails/

 
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