For Real ....Herman “IS” Done!!!

[Orangeyman]

But...dealing with "Big Cigars" and different factions, etc. Mack Brown united all that for a long time. That is part of the job, so, again, do actual coaches consider the job to be that great and desirable?

I think we have a particularly irritating arrogance and self-defeating behavior that helps perpetuate this under achieving.

No, I think it was another assistant whose name escapes me.

mike Campbell

 

[Chop]

As for me, I don't give a rat's a$$ whether our coach does interviews, appears on LHN, schmoozes the big wig $$$$$ alumni, etc. If all that crap takes away from his effectiveness as a coach, I'd rather he not even do it. Bring in his lawyer/agent to draft around having to do all that mess and sign him up.

 

[MajorRules00]

I'm not sure why Urban left Florida but there were (supposedly) health issues. Didn't take long and he was the head coach of Ohio State (believe he was born in Ohio). Started winning at his usual 85% clip and won a natty. Then he got suspended for one his assistant coaches' marital problems (yeah that's football related). Not long after that suspension was over he threw the game against Mizzou on a Thursday night, won the rest of his games including the bowl and said adios mo fo. One of the reasons I don't think he'll come to Texas is there's way too many people with money (and not) that will pester the hell out of UM about what color tie he wears, are his players nice to their girlfriends, do they own guns, etc etc and then (if he was head coach), we'd lose a game to mediocre u, and he'd announce his health issues are back and adios mo fo. There's folks out there who wonder if it's the hires Texas makes or Texas itself. I'm leaning towards Texas itself as the issue. Way too many off-the-field things that make us "T-sips". Oklahoma wins because they get a coach, get behind that coach, and only when that coach just cannot win (John Blake) is that coach run out. Texas has made the head coaching job a whole different animal, shaking hands and kissing babies. All of the universities who win don't do that crap. Until Texas ditches the politics, there won't be any Natty's and there'll continue to be few and far between conference titles.

A lot of people assume the UM health issues are all BS. I suspect there's some truth to the matter, however. I believe UM is empathic. In that he internalizes the energy around him to the degree that it eventually manifests into physical health issues.

Seeing as how the political side of the job isn't likely to go away any time soon, and that I don't really see UM as a bong/bongos type of guy, I would make a meditation/energetic detox assistant part of the job offer.

That would certainly raise some eyebrows and get some chuckles. But the on-field results would quickly overshadow all of that.

 

[Duck Dodgers]

But that's all part of the job. As head coach, you are the front man for the program to give interviews, talk with the donors at events, etc. If all you want to do is X and O's then either be a coordinator, or get a job at NW Dakota State at Winsor, or some such.

All water under the dam now anyway, looks like He-Man's going to be coach for another year, so I'd expect similar results as the past four years. 8-4, and watching the B12 game from home. Plus a new QB to train up and hope is good, so more downside that upside.

 

[dukesteer]

If we had stayed with Mack, I can promise you we would be better off today. He deserved better and so does the University of Texas.”

Better off is isn't good enough, and that’s the point.

 

[PecosBill]

@Duck Dodgers the person that can answer your question about why UM retired for health issues at tOSU is his former agent of 15 years Trace Armstrong who resigned during the tOSU Zack Smith saga.
I paraphrase but the quote is out there I can no longer represent you as a client in the NCAA. Something about talking to the video 5 different times ending in 3 game suspension rather than taking good advice from his agent and remaining silent.
A couple of the links posted previously.
I wonder if Trace Armstrong still represents TH?

 

[22Horn]

Maybe you should try out!!!

*Also, Dicker aint that good. He misses too many he should make. But yeah, he has a strong leg and hits them when the game is on the line. But I think he is kinda always 75% and misses many under 45. I guess you have to take the clutch, big leg over the automatic 45 and in...maybe.

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[22Horn]

Most will agree with this, starting with Strong. Would prefer TH over CS any day of the week!!! The worst coach ever to wear burnt orange

What a clown show we have become since the end of Mack Brown.

 

[Joe Fan]

@Duck Dodgers the person that can answer your question about why UM retired for health issues at tOSU is his former agent of 15 years Trace Armstrong who resigned during the tOSU Zack Smith saga.
I paraphrase but the quote is out there I can no longer represent you as a client in the NCAA. Something about talking to the video 5 different times ending in 3 game suspension rather than taking good advice from his agent and remaining silent.
A couple of the links posted previously.
I wonder if Trace Armstrong still represents TH?

There was a published concern of a heart issue
However, there were also rumors of activities outside the marriage and demands made of what had to be done in order to keep the family together

 

[22Horn]

Historical records speak for themselves!!!

Who, besides Texas fans, ever really thought it was one of the top jobs? Not saying it wasn't or may be again, just wondering if that was another myth floating around about "We're Texas" and so on and so forth.

 

[dukesteer]

I thought Fred Akers was DKR's pick for head coach? He certainly righted the ship the year after Royal left, and went 11-0 that year, only losing to Notre Dame in the Cotton Bowl.

Royal and Brown had very similar careers - good early success, down turns in the middle, ramped it back up for an even better run, then a slow slide down to not being good coaches anymore. Both should have been let go a few years before they were, but that's obviously very hard to do for a legacy coach.

Royal did not want Akers. The BOR did. Akers always had political headwinds during his tenure.

 

[horninchicago]

Historical records speak for themselves!!!

Who, besides Texas fans, ever really thought it was one of the top jobs? Not saying it wasn't or may be again, just wondering if that was another myth floating around about "We're Texas" and so on and so forth.

Try to follow along. I'll say it again. I didn't offer an opinion on whether Texas is one of the top jobs or not. See? That's what people do on message boards. We ask questions like that.

Besides DKR and Mack, what historical records are you referring to?

 

[Sydhank]

Maybe you should try out!!!

*Also, Dicker aint that good. He misses too many he should make. But yeah, he has a strong leg and hits them when the game is on the line. But I think he is kinda always 75% and misses many under 45. I guess you have to take the clutch, big leg over the automatic 45 and in...maybe.

Just an opinion, seems like a good place to offer it.

 

[Sydhank]

2020 SEASON STATS

• FG%
  72.2
  87th
• XP%
  97.7
  102nd
• LNG
  43
  Tied-95th
  
  87th most accurate kicker with a long of 43 feels “not that great.”

 

[dukesteer]

I still have hope that this works out, although the Meyer angle sure seems unlikely. (Notice that I am not saying dead.)

Here’s why:

> I believe in CDC and his competence, and have seen nothing so far to change my mind. I keep going back to the reality that we do things a certain way at Texas. That might preclude a decision “prior to the end of the season.”

> Herman has zero political capital. He is despised by so many, including most of those who matter. So even if he was the best choice for 2021, I believe that the momentum against him will result in his ouster, and no later than the 14th, the Monday after the end of the season.

If I’m right, then we either still a) persuade UM to come, b) go the short term coach route with Yurcich or Ash, or c) pull a rabbit out of the hat with someone we are not expecting. Again, I like Campbell. I just cannot see CDC sticking with TH in 2021, regardless of the cost to ditch him.

Finally, this angle/analogy. How many of the experts correctly picked the 2016 presidential race? Part of me wonders if all of the experts — Bohls, Burton, 247, SI, ESPN, Orangebloods — all of them are being played by a very saavy CDC.

 

[zuckercanyon]

If it's me, you can be assured I'm no egomaniac. I'll readily admit that I don't know nearly as much about football and coach/alumni relations as many of you.

However, I do know considerably more than zuckercanyon.

No way Chop, I thought I was responding to the idea that URBAN is an egomaniac and that's why we don't want him at Texas. I'll be WAY less subtle if I'm talkin about/to you.

 

[zuckercanyon]

OSU didn't play Missouri that year. Maybe you're thinking of their game against Purdue, but OSU didn't throw that game - they didn't play that well, but didn't try to lose it at a coaching level.

All head coaches at top level schools will have to deal with the scum media, talk to donors, fans, be the face of the program, etc. No one's just doing X and O's and such. OU has had two good coaches in a row, but had Gary Gibbs who was very similar to Herman in production, then the Howard S and John Blake years as well.

YES PURDUE HE THREW THAT GAME THANK YOU I HATE THAT I MADE THAT ERROR!

 

[Joe Fan]

Most will agree with this, starting with Strong. Would prefer TH over CS any day of the week!!! The worst coach ever to wear burnt orange
What a clown show we have become since the end of Mack Brown.

I would argue the last 2-3 years of Mack Brown were also very bad. Maybe not clown show bad, but still bad.

Mack's recruiting had already fallen apart. It takes a couple years to actually see that result on the field, so the folks who only watch the football and dont follow recruiting were not fully aware. IMO, there a big disconnect there. If you wait to see it on the field, then it is already too late. We let that happen from ~2009 forward.

Mack's assistants were no longer putting in the work. They were on the road less. Not going to games and the schools. Even phoning in offers to recruits from the golf course based on ratings made by other people. Another thing Mack liked to do more and more was offer guys who he personally liked at junior camps (often based off a phone call from a hs coach Mack liked). That player would accept and suddenly they got an undeserved rankings boost a full year or more before NSD*. I remember one of those classes was ranked very high, like #1 or #2 nationally. Someone even called it "Macks' Best Class Ever" - which bounced all around the internet. But those of us who follow it more closely were screaming, "this is fools gold, the rankings are baloney!" And this is how it passed. Many of them had "character issues" and were gone fairly quickly. Others were not just very good. If you actually go back and look at who finished out "Mack's Best Class," it was almost no one. Seriously, just a couple guys from the whole class. My memory is that just one guy from that entire overrated class got drafted - from the "Best Class Ever." Compare that to the number of players Bama, LSU and Clemson get drafted every year. The point is the signs were there that the foundation of "Mack Brown Football" at Texas had already crumbled for those willing to look. Most fans were not. I think it skews the memory of Mack's exit. Some think everything was fine and Mack got the boot unfairly. But everything was not fine. Far from it.

Recruiting was Mack's base from beginning to end, it was everything really. He never had the best assistants. But for one or two exceptions, other teams were not trying to steal our coaches. We didnt win games outcoaching our opponents. We didnt win games with in-game or half-time adjustments. We won games by overcoming our opponents with superior talent. So, take away recruiting and it falls apart, which is what happened.

And then you pile on top of all of that his reaction to the Saban rumor and maneuverings -- Mack said "there is no way I am going to let Saban win a national championship with my players!" We have been stuck in a cycle of suck ever since.

Lastly, I disagree with whoever above put Mack equal to DKR. The facts and the history dont support that opinion. I do agree it's a clear #1 and clear #2 though.


*I even think some of the anti-Texas recruiting ranking stuff we still see now goes back to these days. I think because we had such a great run under Mack, the paysite services trusted our evaluations. Later. when the rankings turned out to be bunk, they resented us for it bc it made them look bad. But it was their own fault for not doing their own work.

 

[zuckercanyon]

YES PURDUE HE THREW THAT GAME THANK YOU I HATE THAT I MADE THAT ERROR!

AND HE THREW THAT GAME! No way he's that UNPREPARED!

 

[zuckercanyon]

and it's no way he's that unprepared

 

[horninchicago]

@Joe Fan maybe you were referring to my comment above about DKR and Mack. I wasn't saying they are equal, but they are the only 2 really historically significant coaches. That's what I meant.

 

[Joe Fan]

So there you go!

Tom Herman is undefeated in Bowl Games as Head Coach.

Lincoln Riley is winless in Bowl Games as Head Coach.​

 

[SabreHorn]

I thought Fred Akers was DKR's pick for head coach?

Duck,

You didn't put Fred & Coach Royal in the same room. Fred was hired by Governor Shivers and Frank Erwin. The results were some of the ugliest parts of Texas history, which are not discussed and certainly not written about. Fred was an outstanding coach, far better than Mack Brown (DKR's handpicked choice), but NO coach at UT ever had to endure what Fred went through. A few of us involved in recruiting lived it. Little things like Fred not being able to hire his best friend as an assistant. The man remains the best coach I've ever been around, and that includes DKR, Coach Broyles, Barry, Jackie, and OA Phillips. There was an internal war in Bellmont from day one, yet Fred was a winning coach, with a record against Top 20 teams likely to never be matched. That's the "clean" part of the story.
In spite of being friends with Fred, I remained friends with Coach Royal, but we only once talked abut Fred.

Was Coach Royal forced out by Frank Erwin and Governor Shivers? Almost at halftime of the Tech game in Lubbock in 1968, but not in 1976. Earl was hurt almost all of 1976 - thank you Terry Allen for his Hype$man. In a personal conversation with Coach Royal, Ray Poage, a couple of friends after a golf tournament, Coach Royal shared that he stepped down because he had trouble relating to the kids. In his words, The Tower, Bevo, Hook em, Texas Fight, The Eyes of Texas no longer meant anything to "today's kids" (1980ish), and there were fewer kids growing up living to be a Longhorn. Forty years later, we are still seeing it.

Lots of people hold a grudge over Coach Campbell being passed over and still do.

As for Frank, he was intent on building a world class university. If was Frank who went to MIT, put a blank check on the desk and told the man to fill in the blank because he was moving to Austin. When the man refused because he had the only IBM computer of its kind in the world, Frank had him call IBM in Phoenix to ask (1) how soon they could build a new one; (2) how much space they needed for the machine; (3) where he needed to mail the check. George Kozmetsky became the Dean of the Business School, then of the Graduate School of Business, all while creating multiple successful and semi-successful new businesses and think tanks. That one trip helped elevate the business school from regional to national prominence. EGO? Maybe, but I am a nobody, and was NEVER anywhere that when Frank Erwin walked in that he did not come over, shake hands, and say hello to everyone at the table. Obviously, I have great admiration for the man.

 

[Joe Fan]

@Joe Fan maybe you were referring to my comment above about DKR and Mack. I wasn't saying they are equal, but they are the only 2 really historically significant coaches. That's what I meant.

I cant recall who wrote that. Doesnt matter bc I wanted to make the point anyway. They are not two #1s. They are a 1 and a 2. And i dont think its hard to see if you rely upon facts and history rather than emotion. But, sure, they were the best two coaches in Texas history

 

[SabreHorn]

What a clown show we have become since the end of Mack Brown.

22,

Perhaps you are a huge Mack Brown fan, or perhaps you are not aware of our history, but this "clown show" began with, was nurtured by, and perpetuated by Mack Brown and his "exit policy. It was then fertilized by Billie Powers.

 

[horninchicago]

I cant recall who wrote that. Doesnt matter bc I wanted to make the point anyway. They are not two #1s. They are a 1 and a 2. And i dont think its hard to see if you rely upon facts and history rather than emotion. But, sure, they were the best two coaches in Texas history

I agree.

 

[Joe Fan]

....Coach Royal shared that he stepped down because he had trouble relating to the kids. In his words, The Tower, Bevo, Hook em, Texas Fight, The Eyes of Texas no longer meant anything to "today's kids" (1980ish), and there were fewer kids growing up living to be a Longhorn. Forty years later, we are still seeing it. .....

Kind of remarkable in light of the last year in Austin

 

[huisache]

Sabre——-thanks for the words about Akers. I was a Horns fan when I was 10 years old and loved Royal but my favorite games as a fan (season tickets since around ‘82 and a student from ‘69 to ‘74) were when Fred was coach. Those defenses were the most dominant of any I have seen and he was doing it while competing for talent with their satanic majesties.
Never met him but loved his work.

 

[erbutch]

Kind of remarkable in light of the last year in Austin

There once was a group of fans at a University long long ago that were not satisfied with their coach. They demanded a new coach and wanted this young one from a galaxy not far away called Houston. They said he was young and an upcoming coach and we needed to hurry and hire him before someone else scooped him up. Afterall he kissed his players and was coached by the the great guru from the north.This group of fans made fun of another university in the galaxy for hiring this old has been coach named Fisher. So the university jumped in and hired this upcoming young hero from Houston. Low and behold .years later after the young hero lost games and tore down the traditions of the University, the fans were in worse shape than when they started. And low and behold the other university in the galaxy who hired the old worn out coach were #5 in the nation and in a position to make the vaunted CFP. But wait the university still has a great girls volleyball team: and we can still reach a bowl game so everything will be ok.