Eagles Requesting Campus Changes

Htown77 said:
I think what's lost on the anti-statue/building name group is WHY they were put up.

Why is there a statue of Joe Jamail? Why is the business school named after Red McCombs?

The university names this stuff after people who either greatly contributed academically or monetarily. They are why it exists at all. They are being honored for their university contributions. If someone wants to honor something else (Littlefield) and UT accepts the money and terms, then it is a done deal. If UT wants to remove stuff, they need to give the money back with interest.

Is the statue of George Washington there to honor a slave owner or to honor America's main founding father? Is the Martin Luther King Jr. statue there so honor his contributions in civil rights or is it there to honor his womanizing and anti-LGBT positions?

I mean you can literally look at the worst in ANYBODY as there are no perfect people. We build/name these things to honor the BEST in people. We honor them for what they achieved in creating a world class university that exists thanks to them and NOW creates opportunity for people of all races. We are not honoring them for whatever good or bad they did with the rest of their lives.

When we see Littlefield or Simkins or any of these other people, we are supposed to think "no matter how flawed you may have been, thank you for making this world class university I get to enjoy."

The thing is, with UT doing this, why would any big donor ever donate again. Believe me, Joe Jamail and Red McCombs made big mistakes. Their names/statutes are definitely coming down in the future. UT has sent a loud and clear message that is perfectly fine with taking down your name in the future if someone decides they do not like you. The message is "DO NOT DONATE TO THIS UNIVERSITY" if you want any long term say so in the architecture or long term recognition.

Tearing these down is not an F. U. to racism. It is an F. U. to donating to the University.
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I appreciate the response.

We're obviously not going to be putting up future statues of "the worse" on net, but there's something to be said for how these individuals are remembered now. I don't think anyone would disagree that Washington and MLK did things that wouldn't be seen favorably today. It's a step further to memorialize the ones who, for better or worse, fought to maintain a power system instead of bridging the divide.

Simkins dorm was renamed 10 years ago next month. I wouldn't say the university is any better or worse off for it, but I'm glad they at least listened to what students/faculty/staff had to opine about it and how measured the response was during the process. His transgressions were far greater than either Painter or RLM in my opinion, but that talk could lead to further digression from football here.

I'm with you on the "donate" side of things, but from the academic side, it's intellectually and morally within the purview of students, staff, or whoever to say "I'm working in a building named for a man who wouldn't want me here," with all of the greatness that UT can bestow, and ways to study or even rectify that sentiment. One of the ways was proposed by the student athletes, with regard to more public memory installations created by BIPOC and what those memorialize.

Thanks for not blaming me for antifa riots and what-not.
 
TEXnSEATTLE said:
...just like you don't KNOW the people you want to bash so badly because at some point 30 years ago, "I READ SOMETHING"....
I read the entire history of the Littlefield Fountain and found it interesting....just HISTORY...which I found INTERESTING....do I look at HISTORY and rip the pages out of the book that I don't like or don't agree with??? NO, it is F'n HISTORY....it's MORONIC to put today's standards on those that lived in a totally different time.

People that were Southern and who's friends and relative fought in the Civil War wanted to honor their memories.....like we want to honor those that fought in Vietnam...(talking about a SH*T SHOW). when Littlefield was making all his plans to honor those he fought with in the Civil War, the Civil War was closer in time than Vietnam is to us in time..it is HISTORY...it's what happened before...NOT NOW....and we can only change TOMORROW!!!

get a LIFE!!!
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Yep.....
Like with beliefs about Robert E Lee and many others, those who know little or nothing else about the people or events they criticize take one fact and falsely and prejudiciously arrive at broader, inaccurate, and unjust conclusions. Robert E Lee was well-respected by his peers and counterparts including Ulysses Grant, Lincoln and Northern abolishinests. He was credited to a large degree with helping reconciliation efforts after surrender and worked closely with northern counterparts, even in elected positions of authority supported by those counterparts, to help chart a new course for the country. He, like many northerners, did not support voting rights on the basis of lack of education. Many of those northerners, by the way, also supported segregation even after the abolition of slavery, so......I guess those racists need to be vilified even though they fought to end slavery, right?
Back to REL, aside from his reputation and apparent respect of peers, he was known to have a very difficult and contentious, even impossible, wife and humbly and faithfully loved her and their 7 children til death. So any man like that deserves at least a statue or something. :)
...I hope history is more gracious to those reviling these men
 
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Horns11 said:
...it's intellectually and morally within the purview of students, staff, or whoever to say "I'm working in a building named for a man who wouldn't want me here," ...
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You are really hitting on something here that, at least for me, is at the heart of some of the personal objections I have - not to say these students aren't entitled to their own views.
For me personally, this^^^^ type of thinking just doesn't mesh with my values, beliefs, and convictions. I was raised to take a very high level of responsibility. My kids have a "sit up straight" dad. More importantly, though we won't back down from a worthwhile fight, we don't go trying to change everything we don't like or are uncomfortable with, either. If I were one of these guys I'd view the fact that, there I am, climbing that ladder right there...making it...in the very same building (named after a racist or whatever the case might be) as a positive thing. What better testimony....what beautiful irony....what symbol of progress and the power we have to change, to overcome!
Nothing would have been more powerful, and better received and therefore more meaningfully impactful, than BE or whoever else coming out and saying I've got some issues with a few things at UT that have been pointed out to me, but I am a Longhorn, I am dedicated to this team and this school, and I am going to be the best I can be to represent and influence the school I'm committed to. .....And then gone and worked his butt off to be the best on the field, to be a leader, to garner respect and attention for his contributuon and his cause...and continue to tout that cause while gaining fans and influence and earning the right to lead.
See....that's my paradigm. It doesnt have to be his. We can all have opinions/views/beliefs.
Some are just better or more effective than others.
I have personally been taught by both my parents and by life experience itself that a low locus of control mentality....focusing on things you cant or shouldnt want or need to control to make you feel better.....is nothing more than an excuse or distraction from opportunities that lie before you.
I personally don't go around trying to change everything I don't like or am uncomfortable with...and don't force my views or version of reality on others. I find little value in such things and gratification (not to mention effectiveness) much higher when the desired effect occurs naturally, or organically, if you will.
 
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Take Zachary Taylor Fulmore....
He did more for black education than anyone in the history of the state after the war, owned no slaves, etc.. but because he was a clerk in the Rebel Army they took his name off a middle school.....Total ********* !!!! We are letting uneducated, gutless, POS change history and screw with our society.
 
TEXnSEATTLE said:
canyon....I was in charge of tutoring the athletes from '82-'85....your comments about "basket weaving" and "easily obtained" shows you are speaking of something you have ZERO knowledge of....in fact, it is equivalent to o.u. (it SUCKS)
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Let me tell you a story that was told to me by one of my dorm mates back in the day. He took a course called coaching high school football that Tommy Ford (yes that Tommy Ford) taught. Now, believe it or not, there were a lot of UT football players in that class. There was a final exam that was based on the rules of football. Some of the UT players were struggling in the class, so, for the final, Coach Ford wrote all the answers on the chalkboard, each student was encouraged to talk to his neighbor about the question/answer, raise their hand if they didn't understand the question, and so on. Point of the story was those players who were struggling to pass that class needed that 100% to pass the course. So Coach Ford made it impossible for anyone to make less than 100%. That's my only story. I wasn't there. However, if Texas had some players who didn't know the rules of football, how many would have a tough time with perhaps other (more important/harder) subjects? Maybe you got all the smart ones.....
 
TEXnSEATTLE said:
canyon....I was in charge of tutoring the athletes from '82-'85....your comments about "basket weaving" and "easily obtained" shows you are speaking of something you have ZERO knowledge of....in fact, it is equivalent to o.u. (it SUCKS)
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So are you talking about winning football games or academics?
 
Omniscient.one said:
Lol. A UT football team made of the top 6% of HS students is laughable. Nothing wrong with the current give and take. Those athletes that wouldn’t otherwise qualify bring so much to the university including millions of dollars and an experience unmatched by other sports.

Everybody needs to relax. Cooler heads will prevail and a compromise will be made that will largely appease the players and most fans.

I won’t hold a grudge because I don’t really give much of a fark about all of this. I just care about Foster cracking skulls, Eagles and Smith catching long balls, Sam trucking LBs, Jamison pick sixes, Cosmi pancaking the OU d-line, and watching the development of the guys stepping into new roles and getting more PT, namely Overshown, among many other things. Oh, and Bijan breaking ankles. Most of all I want to see us go to Death Valley and serve a big ol’ piece of humble pie.
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Good enough, Omniscient....although I feel like BMD's and ticket/merchandise make it possible for the players to have a pretty nice house/building to play/lift weights/study film/etc. When you go to work tomorrow, go up to the owner of your company or other muckety-muck and tell him "I know you set all of this up with money and effort and sleepless nights, but, I don't like it that you tend to not pat my head every time you walk past my office and tell me how special I am". See how that works out for you. As for football in September, I hope it exists.....
 
zuckercanyon said:
Good enough, Omniscient....although I feel like BMD's and ticket/merchandise make it possible for the players to have a pretty nice house/building to play/lift weights/study film/etc. When you go to work tomorrow, go up to the owner of your company or other muckety-muck and tell him "I know you set all of this up with money and effort and sleepless nights, but, I don't like it that you tend to not pat my head every time you walk past my office and tell me how special I am". See how that works out for you. As for football in September, I hope it exists.....
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I don’t follow. Probably because you’re not making sense
 
College sports is a big business and create revenue opportunities so that a program like Texas is the envy of its competitors.

As a graduate, a donor and a season ticket holder of the University of Texas I plan to attend many future Texas Football games in DKR.

I am grateful that CDC is the person responsible to guide the program in the coming weeks to listen, learn and address the requests expressed by the players so that we move forward in a positive way for all parties.

The new President will have a great support in CDC to make the right decisions.

I appreciate that the players made a thoughtful and intelligently worded request that avoided the deal breaker of a nuclear option type ultimatum.

The team deserves the best support off the field to produce the best results on the field.

Will follow closely what the team and CDC comes up with for the future of the program.

Hook'em Horns!
 
Omniscient.one said:
I don’t follow. Probably because you’re not making sense
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maybe so, trying to make the connection with a (perhaps racist) owner/contributor creating the environment in which you work/operate. You have made a minute contribution to the building/arena you've been granted access to. Yet, you decide there's many things about the environment you're not ok with, and you want to denegrate/eliminate the environment which allows for your success. You haven't done anything to create it, you just operate within it. So you take your supposed position of power to try to eliminate some things "just because you don't like them" (offended). Whining about attention from your boss(es) when you should keep the hole under your nose shut and do your job that's supported by prior efforts, done by racists/bad people or not.
 
zuckercanyon said:
maybe so, trying to make the connection with a (perhaps racist) owner/contributor creating the environment in which you work/operate. You have made a minute contribution to the building/arena you've been granted access to. Yet, you decide there's many things about the environment you're not ok with, and you want to denegrate/eliminate the environment which allows for your success. You haven't done anything to create it, you just operate within it. So you take your supposed position of power to try to eliminate some things "just because you don't like them" (offended). Whining about attention from your boss(es) when you should keep the hole under your nose shut and do your job that's supported by prior efforts, done by racists/bad people or not.
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I’m all for a good analogy but, and maybe it’s my fault, I’m not seeing the parallels. And of the tenuous ones I made out, I think the analogy doesn’t help. I’ll just stick to the facts
 
UTexRulz23 said:
How are they a mob? They’re students at UT who serve as ambassadors based on their participation in athletics. They’re not burning anything down. They’re publicly calling for change.

Equality feels like oppression when you’re accustomed to privilege.
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Equality ???? 4% of student body but 85% of athletic scholarships.... While Hispanics make up 20% but have nearly zero athletic scholarships on FB,MBB,WBB, & VB. Asians make up 10%.....but ZERO scholarships on those teams. EQUALITY ???
 
Thanks. I was given the number by a friend in DC, who knows of my encounters about admissions with Cunningham
 
So, at this point, we have Jr. WR Brennan Eagles, Jr. LB Juwan Mitchell, and Jr. CB Anthony Cook saying unless their demands (or requests) are met, they are not going to play football this season. If we get down to kickoff and they refuse to play, at that point, they will be in violation of the terms of the scholarship and may be dismissed from school. Perhaps they should put their names in the transfer portal and begin the process of finding another program to join.
 
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MajesticII said:
Equality ???? 4% of student body but 85% of athletic scholarships.... While Hispanics make up 20% but have nearly zero athletic scholarships on FB,MBB,WBB, & VB. Asians make up 10%.....but ZERO scholarships on those teams. EQUALITY ???
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Your statement appears to indicate the University should consider lowering the admissions and academic standards for minority applicants and in particular African American students. Anyone applying to UT should be able to meet the high standards as set, or apply to another school. That includes athletes. Texas has a number of high ranked academic programs in the country. Let's keep it that way. Meet the standards or, apply elsewhere.
 
Sorry, Bevo Joe, I'm not waiting for them to be told to "quit" on fourth & one against LSU or OU. You're either onboard or not; if not, don't showup and be a distraction in August. I'll sit through every play of a 100-0 beatdown from OU rather than continue with the problems.

Of course, my definition of "onboard" and Herman's may be drastically different.
 
I guess making Juneteenth a national holiday would save us from having to explain Juneteenth to every Yankee and Californian that moves to Texas.
 
SabreHorn said:
Sorry, Bevo Joe, I'm not waiting for them to be told to "quit" on fourth & one against LSU or OU. You're either onboard or not; if not, don't show up and be a distraction in August. I'll sit through every play of a 100-0 beatdown from OU rather than continue with the problems.

Of course, my definition of "onboard" and Herman's may be drastically different.
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Good points Sabre. I was looking at the legal implications of their statements. Yanking their 'ships now, might be unwise since come gameday, if they decide to sit out, they will have broken the terms of the scholarship contract. Dismissing them prior to that might be construed as a violation of the scholarship, even though the threat was manifested in a form of indirect communication in a written "tweet". Wait until they actually refuse to play on game day, and that bolsters the University's ability to declare the 'ship null and void. It sucks because it leaves gaps in the depth for those positions. However, I believe your example of them walking off in the middle of a game is a real and fairly high probability.

Players complain that the play their derrieres off for nothing. So, their scholarship is worth nothing? Here some amounts I found related to total costs to have a player on campus pursuant to a full scholarship for their 4 years:

Annual cost (Texas Residents)
Tuition..............................$10,610
Books and Supplies.................$700
Other Fees ................................$0
Room and Board................$10,804
Other Expenses Budget........$4,392

Total Annual Costs..............$26,506
Total 4 year Costs.............$106,024

In addition, the last figure I could find for the annual Cost of Attendance stipend paid by UT to student athletes was $4,875. Add in that annual stipend, and the total cost for 4 years incurred by the university is $125,524 per athlete. The amounts would be much higher if the athlete is a non-resident.

In addition, for an athletic scholarship to be tax-free, it cannot be a fee for services. According to the IRS, the college can expect, but not require the recipient of an athletic scholarship to participate in a particular sport. For example, if the student is unable to participate in the sport because they are injured, the college must continue the scholarship. If the school no longer expects their participation in football due to the statements made during the tax year 2020, then the IRS would have an opportunity to deem the total amounts received for the 8 months of the 2020 tax year to be taxable to the athlete, but the taxability might also be contingent on the players not landing a scholarship at another school. If they quit during a game or maybe just before kick off, the tax might apply and the University send the players a 1099 (the players are not employees) or other similar document indicating the taxable amount. Now, the players have a big and unanticipated problem. Just some info to think about.
 
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SabreHorn said:
Joe,

Don’t forget that they get three free tickets to each game. There are other perks as well.
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I remember we got to have STEAK every once in a while for Sunday lunch at Jester, does that count?? Didn't make enough A-1 to cover even that 1/4" piece of...
 
MajesticII said:
Equality ???? 4% of student body but 85% of athletic scholarships.... While Hispanics make up 20% but have nearly zero athletic scholarships on FB,MBB,WBB, & VB. Asians make up 10%.....but ZERO scholarships on those teams. EQUALITY ???
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I don't think these stats mean what you think they mean.
Growing up I used to hear that you could tell what part of the population was the most oppressed by who owned all the boxing titles.
Blacks to Italians to Irish, etc.
That's how they get out of their situation is by dominating sports.
 
BevoJoe said:
Thanks. I hit the major items I could verify. I'm sure they receive plenty of other perks as well.
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Like the adoration of 99% of the student body and Texas fans around the country. Yeah, they are really treated like crap I'm sure...
 
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