Eagles Requesting Campus Changes

[TEXnSEATTLE]

If you read this, and then still think their concerns are "misguided," then they're probably not going to have the conversation with you.

This whole thread is filled with "I reject your premise on the grounds that it's stupid" (or something along those lines) and altering the argument to be about stuff that's not in the letter.

does anyone find their demands racist?

the ONLY color that matters at UT Austin is BURNT ORANGE....embrace it!

 

[Horns11]

I think they are full of ****. Like Larry Elder said, show me the systemic racism. Go ahead, I'll wait. And, no, I don't care about having a conversation with them, or you, for that matter.

Edit: I can only do one reaction, so I chose "Disagree", but I would I also Dislike, Poop, and WTF yiuyr comment if I could.

It's the conversation they seek. If you don't want to hear it, then don't hear it. If your conversation points are coming from conservative talk radio like Larry Elder and not representatives of the university, then you're more closely allied to your ideology than the university or its athletes. And that's fine.

I was inside the inside circle for YEARS and all I can say is....these kids are treated like conquering heroes, EVEN when they don't conquer.....the facilities and perks would make the EMPORER HADRIAN jealous....for most, this will be the pinnacle of their lives....and they want more? what they are asking for can't be given it is earned....no one has the power to give them what they want...it HAS to be earned !!!

Phrasing it as "these kids are treated so well, and yet they WANT THINGS" is about as compelling as "you participate in public life, yet criticize it!" What should they do to "earn" building name changes? More turnovers forced next year? Not lose to TCU?

 

[TEXnSEATTLE]

I'm hoping it's like a form of negotiation.
They are upset.
They want change.
I can empathize with that.

So, you throw a bunch of demands out there even including the freaking school song and see how much you end up with.
There will be conversations with the powers that be.
Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail.

Outside of the football program I do believe change needs to happen.
In the greater scheme of things.
But these demands I believe will accomplish nothing more than a feel good moment for them that will soon pass.

FOR starters....wake up in the morning and don't drive drunk
......wake up in the morning and don't take METH or fentanyl....

I have not heard one person suggest that, yet....I know of 17 people that would be alive, today, had they lived that advice....

 

[TEXnSEATTLE]

It's the conversation they seek. If you don't want to hear it, then don't hear it. If your conversation points are coming from conservative talk radio like Larry Elder and not representatives of the university, then you're more closely allied to your ideology than the university or its athletes. And that's fine.



Phrasing it as "these kids are treated so well, and yet they WANT THINGS" is about as compelling as "you participate in public life, yet criticize it!" What should they do to "earn" building name changes? More turnovers forced next year? Not lose to TCU?

honestly, what does a building's name change anything? I spent 9 years at UT Austin getting 4 degrees and I knew that Littlefield left a bunch of money to the University and I thought his house was cool.....I don't LOOK for negative things, I look forward looking for the best in everyone...those people lived in different times....coming up with how evil we THINK they were is lame....NO ONE today could tell you that....
what got you on the change the name bandwagon???

 

[zuckercanyon]

I have a longtime UT friend who is black (token comments come on ahead). ANYWAY, back when Texas was rolling with Vince & Co and winning Rose Bowls, my friend (who got his law degree just to see if he could do it) said his idea was to sue the NCAA to pay these players for making money for the university because universities are letting in unqualified players (mostly black) to play sports for these universities even though they wouldn't otherwise qualify academically. Either pay them, or create a semi-pro league for them to go to and get paid for playing. I was angry then, basically telling him he was going to make college football (COLLEGE FOOTBALL?!?!?!?!?) look like college baseball (smaller/slower/less athletic). In other words, a diminished product. I told him I hoped the scenario he described would never happen. Today, I have a different perspective. These black athletes (and some of their white teammates) are demanding change for their betterment/treatment/etc. My perspective is that many of these disgruntled players are given a pass academically to come show off their athleticism. Degrees are created that can be easily obtained (I'll call it 'basket weaving') and perhaps jobs promised upon graduation for "bleeding for the university".
My new idea is that the coddling should stop immediately, and the university should make the academic requirements for the athletes the exact same as for any "regular" student. Make the grades/requirements or you go play somewhere else. I no longer care if this makes Texas more like Harvard or Yale with lesser teams that can't compete with schools who have less standards. This rule would affect players of all colors/stripes/etc. Never thought I would say this because I LOVED watching the Longhorns roll in the 2000s (just like some of our brethren LOVED the 60s), but I'm with my friend. No one is being helped by gaining admission to a university they may not qualify for otherwise. Go to a school equivalent to your academics not your athletics. Bide your time at a D-III school known for developing athletes. Then try out for the NFL, or go get a job commensurate with your academic success you've achieved. But don't do it anymore at the expense of a top-notch university just because you're gifted athletically.

 

[TEXnSEATTLE]

It's the conversation they seek. If you don't want to hear it, then don't hear it. If your conversation points are coming from conservative talk radio like Larry Elder and not representatives of the university, then you're more closely allied to your ideology than the university or its athletes. And that's fine.



Phrasing it as "these kids are treated so well, and yet they WANT THINGS" is about as compelling as "you participate in public life, yet criticize it!" What should they do to "earn" building name changes? More turnovers forced next year? Not lose to TCU?

and FURTHERMORE....your bashing Larry Elder....NOTHING to do with conservative or liberal, it has to do with REASON....which, most LIBERALS have a terrible time coming to grips with....TRUST, me, I know...I've been up in Seattle taking it in for 30+ years....
Because of what I've observed I am TOTALLY CONVINCED after DRUG ADDICTED ZOMBIES are allowed to stagger through our city and now, the allowing of part of our city being taken over.....LIBERALISM is a MENTAL DISORDER

ie....someone that takes LARRY ELDER's wisdom and tries to make it something else, JUST because he knows he's conservative....

well, 11, I'd much rather get my advice from Mr. Elder than you, sir....just like these PERFECT idiots occupying part of my city, when the **** went flying and they got hurt trying to be tough guys....guess who they called???

THE POLICE!!!

 

[Horns11]

honestly, what does a building's name change anything? I spent 9 years at UT Austin getting 4 degrees and I knew that Littlefield left a bunch of money to the University and I thought his house was cool.....I don't LOOK for negative things, I look forward looking for the best in everyone...those people lived in different times....coming up with how evil we THINK they were is lame....NO ONE today could tell you that....
what got you on the change the name bandwagon???

At a basic level, the arguments made to force Sweatt to go to a separate, unequal college, and RLM's personal comments about black people and women. But that was back in the late 80s/early 90s when I read about that stuff.

I have little deference to Hogg or his statue. Same for Littlefield... he was the son of a Confederate and basically paid to make UT follow the Lost Cause narrative in glorifying those types of things, but he personally wasn't involved in the kind of stuff that Painter and RLM were.

I have a longtime UT friend who is black (token comments come on ahead). ANYWAY, back when Texas was rolling with Vince & Co and winning Rose Bowls, my friend (who got his law degree just to see if he could do it) said his idea was to sue the NCAA to pay these players for making money for the university because universities are letting in unqualified players (mostly black) to play sports for these universities even though they wouldn't otherwise qualify academically. Either pay them, or create a semi-pro league for them to go to and get paid for playing. I was angry then, basically telling him he was going to make college football (COLLEGE FOOTBALL?!?!?!?!?) look like college baseball (smaller/slower/less athletic). In other words, a diminished product. I told him I hoped the scenario he described would never happen. Today, I have a different perspective. These black athletes (and some of their white teammates) are demanding change for their betterment/treatment/etc. My perspective is that many of these disgruntled players are given a pass academically to come show off their athleticism. Degrees are created that can be easily obtained (I'll call it 'basket weaving') and perhaps jobs promised upon graduation for "bleeding for the university".
My new idea is that the coddling should stop immediately, and the university should make the academic requirements for the athletes the exact same as for any "regular" student. Make the grades/requirements or you go play somewhere else. I no longer care if this makes Texas more like Harvard or Yale with lesser teams that can't compete with schools who have less standards. This rule would affect players of all colors/stripes/etc. Never thought I would say this because I LOVED watching the Longhorns roll in the 2000s (just like some of our brethren LOVED the 60s), but I'm with my friend. No one is being helped by gaining admission to a university they may not qualify for otherwise. Go to a school equivalent to your academics not your athletics. Bide your time at a D-III school known for developing athletes. Then try out for the NFL, or go get a job commensurate with your academic success you've achieved. But don't do it anymore at the expense of a top-notch university just because you're gifted athletically.

I'm totally in favor of the Power-5 breaking off of the NCAA and forming their own semipro version of football. That's basically what it is now anyhow.

and FURTHERMORE....your bashing Larry Elder....NOTHING to do with conservative or liberal, it has to do with REASON....which, most LIBERALS have a terrible time coming to grips with....TRUST, me, I know...I've been up in Seattle taking it in for 30+ years....
Because of what I've observed I am TOTALLY CONVINCED after DRUG ADDICTED ZOMBIES are allowed to stagger through our city and now, the allowing of part of our city being taken over.....LIBERALISM is a MENTAL DISORDER

ie....someone that takes LARRY ELDER's wisdom and tries to make it something else, JUST because he knows he's conservative....

well, 11, I'd much rather get my advice from Mr. Elder than you, sir....just like these PERFECT idiots occupying part of my city, when the **** went flying and they got hurt trying to be tough guys....guess who they called???

THE POLICE!!!

I didn't bash Elder. I said if you align yourself more with his ideology than you do with current representatives of the university, then fine. Hartzell is open to hearing what the student athletes have to say. Many on this board are not.

 

[TEXnSEATTLE]

I have a longtime UT friend who is black (token comments come on ahead). ANYWAY, back when Texas was rolling with Vince & Co and winning Rose Bowls, my friend (who got his law degree just to see if he could do it) said his idea was to sue the NCAA to pay these players for making money for the university because universities are letting in unqualified players (mostly black) to play sports for these universities even though they wouldn't otherwise qualify academically. Either pay them, or create a semi-pro league for them to go to and get paid for playing. I was angry then, basically telling him he was going to make college football (COLLEGE FOOTBALL?!?!?!?!?) look like college baseball (smaller/slower/less athletic). In other words, a diminished product. I told him I hoped the scenario he described would never happen. Today, I have a different perspective. These black athletes (and some of their white teammates) are demanding change for their betterment/treatment/etc. My perspective is that many of these disgruntled players are given a pass academically to come show off their athleticism. Degrees are created that can be easily obtained (I'll call it 'basket weaving') and perhaps jobs promised upon graduation for "bleeding for the university".
My new idea is that the coddling should stop immediately, and the university should make the academic requirements for the athletes the exact same as for any "regular" student. Make the grades/requirements or you go play somewhere else. I no longer care if this makes Texas more like Harvard or Yale with lesser teams that can't compete with schools who have less standards. This rule would affect players of all colors/stripes/etc. Never thought I would say this because I LOVED watching the Longhorns roll in the 2000s (just like some of our brethren LOVED the 60s), but I'm with my friend. No one is being helped by gaining admission to a university they may not qualify for otherwise. Go to a school equivalent to your academics not your athletics. Bide your time at a D-III school known for developing athletes. Then try out for the NFL, or go get a job commensurate with your academic success you've achieved. But don't do it anymore at the expense of a top-notch university just because you're gifted athletically.

canyon....I was in charge of tutoring the athletes from '82-'85....your comments about "basket weaving" and "easily obtained" shows you are speaking of something you have ZERO knowledge of....in fact, it is equivalent to o.u. (it SUCKS)

 

[TEXnSEATTLE]

At a basic level, the arguments made to force Sweatt to go to a separate, unequal college, and RLM's personal comments about black people and women. But that was back in the late 80s/early 90s when I read about that stuff.

I have little deference to Hogg or his statue. Same for Littlefield... he was the son of a Confederate and basically paid to make UT follow the Lost Cause narrative in glorifying those types of things, but he personally wasn't involved in the kind of stuff that Painter and RLM were.



I'm totally in favor of the Power-5 breaking off of the NCAA and forming their own semipro version of football. That's basically what it is now anyhow.



I didn't bash Elder. I said if you align yourself more with his ideology than you do with current representatives of the university, then fine. Hartzell is open to hearing what the student athletes have to say. Many on this board are not.

TOO MUCH NEGATIVE AND TOO MUCH HATE, 11....it's eating you from the inside....and you don't know me or anything I might "align" myself with...just like you don't KNOW the people you want to bash so badly because at some point 30 years ago, "I READ SOMETHING"....
I read the entire history of the Littlefield Fountain and found it interesting....just HISTORY...which I found INTERESTING....do I look at HISTORY and rip the pages out of the book that I don't like or don't agree with??? NO, it is F'n HISTORY....it's MORONIC to put today's standards on those that lived in a totally different time.

People that were Southern and who's friends and relative fought in the Civil War wanted to honor their memories.....like we want to honor those that fought in Vietnam...(talking about a SH*T SHOW). when Littlefield was making all his plans to honor those he fought with in the Civil War, the Civil War was closer in time than Vietnam is to us in time..it is HISTORY...it's what happened before...NOT NOW....and we can only change TOMORROW!!!

get a LIFE!!!

 

[RainH2burntO]

Well, my opinion is, someone should educate the players on the totality of history of America... then ask them why they have a problem with the song and not the football team, the university or america as a whole.

And that is part of the problem......they barely teach history most places anymore and, if so, not very accurately or thoroughly and certainly not without an agenda

 

[TEXnSEATTLE]

And that is part of the problem......they barely teach history most places anymore and, if so, not very accurately or thoroughly and certainly not without an agenda

I've heard that....hard to believe...

 

[TEXnSEATTLE]

At a basic level, the arguments made to force Sweatt to go to a separate, unequal college, and RLM's personal comments about black people and women. But that was back in the late 80s/early 90s when I read about that stuff.

I have little deference to Hogg or his statue. Same for Littlefield... he was the son of a Confederate and basically paid to make UT follow the Lost Cause narrative in glorifying those types of things, but he personally wasn't involved in the kind of stuff that Painter and RLM were.



I'm totally in favor of the Power-5 breaking off of the NCAA and forming their own semipro version of football. That's basically what it is now anyhow.



I didn't bash Elder. I said if you align yourself more with his ideology than you do with current representatives of the university, then fine. Hartzell is open to hearing what the student athletes have to say. Many on this board are not.

11, it just dawned on me your perspective that I find fascinating....how were you brought up that you look at things and critique them and if you don't like them, you feel you have the power to have them removed??? HOW THE HELL does one come to feeling that that is your RIGHT????

I see stuff all the time that doesn't please me or that I wish were different....BUT, NOT ONCE in all my years did I think I needed to get rid of anything....WHY DO YOU!!!????

 

[horninchicago]

So, before the Floyd death, these guys were all okay with the way things are at UT, or were they somehow forced to come play for Texas?

Again, I fail to see what the issues are for these guys. The eloquent comments from Horns11 notwithstanding.

 

[RainH2burntO]

I've heard that....hard to believe...

Oh yeah....
INDOCTRINATION

 

[TEXnSEATTLE]

So, before the Floyd death, these guys were all okay with the way things are at UT, or were they somehow forced to come play for Texas?

Again, I fail to see what the issues are for these guys. The eloquent comments from Horns11 notwithstanding.

I wonder why I don't hear black Mom's and Dad's tell there kids that being a criminal your whole life and doing METH and fentanyl is not going to get you where you want to go.

 

[Omniscient.one]

I have a longtime UT friend who is black (token comments come on ahead). ANYWAY, back when Texas was rolling with Vince & Co and winning Rose Bowls, my friend (who got his law degree just to see if he could do it) said his idea was to sue the NCAA to pay these players for making money for the university because universities are letting in unqualified players (mostly black) to play sports for these universities even though they wouldn't otherwise qualify academically. Either pay them, or create a semi-pro league for them to go to and get paid for playing. I was angry then, basically telling him he was going to make college football (COLLEGE FOOTBALL?!?!?!?!?) look like college baseball (smaller/slower/less athletic). In other words, a diminished product. I told him I hoped the scenario he described would never happen. Today, I have a different perspective. These black athletes (and some of their white teammates) are demanding change for their betterment/treatment/etc. My perspective is that many of these disgruntled players are given a pass academically to come show off their athleticism. Degrees are created that can be easily obtained (I'll call it 'basket weaving') and perhaps jobs promised upon graduation for "bleeding for the university".
My new idea is that the coddling should stop immediately, and the university should make the academic requirements for the athletes the exact same as for any "regular" student. Make the grades/requirements or you go play somewhere else. I no longer care if this makes Texas more like Harvard or Yale with lesser teams that can't compete with schools who have less standards. This rule would affect players of all colors/stripes/etc. Never thought I would say this because I LOVED watching the Longhorns roll in the 2000s (just like some of our brethren LOVED the 60s), but I'm with my friend. No one is being helped by gaining admission to a university they may not qualify for otherwise. Go to a school equivalent to your academics not your athletics. Bide your time at a D-III school known for developing athletes. Then try out for the NFL, or go get a job commensurate with your academic success you've achieved. But don't do it anymore at the expense of a top-notch university just because you're gifted athletically.

Lol. A UT football team made of the top 6% of HS students is laughable. Nothing wrong with the current give and take. Those athletes that wouldn’t otherwise qualify bring so much to the university including millions of dollars and an experience unmatched by other sports.

Everybody needs to relax. Cooler heads will prevail and a compromise will be made that will largely appease the players and most fans.

I won’t hold a grudge because I don’t really give much of a fark about all of this. I just care about Foster cracking skulls, Eagles and Smith catching long balls, Sam trucking LBs, Jamison pick sixes, Cosmi pancaking the OU d-line, and watching the development of the guys stepping into new roles and getting more PT, namely Overshown, among many other things. Oh, and Bijan breaking ankles. Most of all I want to see us go to Death Valley and serve a big ol’ piece of humble pie.

 

[Horns11]

TOO MUCH NEGATIVE AND TOO MUCH HATE, 11....it's eating you from the inside....and you don't know me or anything I might "align" myself with...just like you don't KNOW the people you want to bash so badly because at some point 30 years ago, "I READ SOMETHING"....
I read the entire history of the Littlefield Fountain and found it interesting....just HISTORY...which I found INTERESTING....do I look at HISTORY and rip the pages out of the book that I don't like or don't agree with??? NO, it is F'n HISTORY....it's MORONIC to put today's standards on those that lived in a totally different time.

People that were Southern and who's friends and relative fought in the Civil War wanted to honor their memories.....like we want to honor those that fought in Vietnam...(talking about a SH*T SHOW). when Littlefield was making all his plans to honor those he fought with in the Civil War, the Civil War was closer in time than Vietnam is to us in time..it is HISTORY...it's what happened before...NOT NOW....and we can only change TOMORROW!!!

get a LIFE!!!

Indeed, instead of ripping out the pages that I read about Painter, Sweatt, or RLM, I think the whole point is that we take a critical look at those pages. Naming buildings after people is not an asymbolic gesture. I'll readily admit that they lived in a much different time, but their exact words, primary sourced literature, and beliefs about race do not stand the test of time to the point where people SHOULD have conversations about renaming the buildings. I don't know if/when it could happen, nor do I have that kind of authority.

I hear liberals say the same thing about the Bible or whatever. "It's MORONIC to put standards from 3000 years ago on those that live in a totally different time." And I disagree with that premise too. The university has an allegiance to truth, just like the Main Building says. A critical eye is important, and I can see why what the athletes did is pissing people on this board off. You feel strongly about representing the university, and when you witness something that doesn't jibe with that view, there are whole stages of grief that seem to take place.

I've never advocated for Vietnam memorials, nor do I see what that has to do with how UT venerated the Lost Cause persona.

11, it just dawned on me your perspective that I find fascinating....how were you brought up that you look at things and critique them and if you don't like them, you feel you have the power to have them removed??? HOW THE HELL does one come to feeling that that is your RIGHT????

I see stuff all the time that doesn't please me or that I wish were different....BUT, NO ONCE in all my years did I think I needed to get rid of anything....WHY DO YOU!!!????

I think I addressed that in my last comment, but as an individual, I don't think I wield any special magic wands of authority. It is my right to side with the athletes, Herman, Hartzell, etc. and think that we at least need a conversation about it. Just like it's your right to all-caps me to kingdom come, I feel that we could assign values to "things we see that we wish were different." I don't wish you to continue using all-caps, but I can evaluate why you keep doing it. If you don't feel strongly enough to take action over things that students might deem offensive, let alone have a conversation about it, that's fine by me.

 

[Omniscient.one]

Indeed, instead of ripping out the pages that I read about Painter, Sweatt, or RLM, I think the whole point is that we take a critical look at those pages. Naming buildings after people is not an asymbolic gesture. I'll readily admit that they lived in a much different time, but their exact words, primary sourced literature, and beliefs about race do not stand the test of time to the point where people SHOULD have conversations about renaming the buildings. I don't know if/when it could happen, nor do I have that kind of authority.

I hear liberals say the same thing about the Bible or whatever. "It's MORONIC to put standards from 3000 years ago on those that live in a totally different time." And I disagree with that premise too. The university has an allegiance to truth, just like the Main Building says. A critical eye is important, and I can see why what the athletes did is pissing people on this board off. You feel strongly about representing the university, and when you witness something that doesn't jibe with that view, there are whole stages of grief that seem to take place.

I've never advocated for Vietnam memorials, nor do I see what that has to do with how UT venerated the Lost Cause persona.



I think I addressed that in my last comment, but as an individual, I don't think I wield any special magic wands of authority. It is my right to side with the athletes, Herman, Hartzell, etc. and think that we at least need a conversation about it. Just like it's your right to all-caps me to kingdom come, I feel that we could assign values to "things we see that we wish were different." I don't wish you to continue using all-caps, but I can evaluate why you keep doing it. If you don't feel strongly enough to take action over things that students might deem offensive, let alone have a conversation about it, that's fine by me.

CDC tweeted that a conversation is going to occur. So you can cross that one off your list.

 

[Horns11]

CDC tweeted that a conversation is going to occur. So you can cross that one off your list.

I know, as did Hartzell. The fact that the conversation is even happening is making people mad, and I was just explaining why I thought it was ok.

 

[Omniscient.one]

I know, as did Hartzell. The fact that the conversation is even happening is making people mad, and I was just explaining why I thought it was ok.

“It is my right to side with the athletes, Herman, Hartzell, etc. and think that we at least need a conversation about it.”

You’re not one of those people that’s never wrong, are you?

 

[TEXnSEATTLE]

Indeed, instead of ripping out the pages that I read about Painter, Sweatt, or RLM, I think the whole point is that we take a critical look at those pages. Naming buildings after people is not an asymbolic gesture. I'll readily admit that they lived in a much different time, but their exact words, primary sourced literature, and beliefs about race do not stand the test of time to the point where people SHOULD have conversations about renaming the buildings. I don't know if/when it could happen, nor do I have that kind of authority.

I hear liberals say the same thing about the Bible or whatever. "It's MORONIC to put standards from 3000 years ago on those that live in a totally different time." And I disagree with that premise too. The university has an allegiance to truth, just like the Main Building says. A critical eye is important, and I can see why what the athletes did is pissing people on this board off. You feel strongly about representing the university, and when you witness something that doesn't jibe with that view, there are whole stages of grief that seem to take place.

I've never advocated for Vietnam memorials, nor do I see what that has to do with how UT venerated the Lost Cause persona.



I think I addressed that in my last comment, but as an individual, I don't think I wield any special magic wands of authority. It is my right to side with the athletes, Herman, Hartzell, etc. and think that we at least need a conversation about it. Just like it's your right to all-caps me to kingdom come, I feel that we could assign values to "things we see that we wish were different." I don't wish you to continue using all-caps, but I can evaluate why you keep doing it. If you don't feel strongly enough to take action over things that students might deem offensive, let alone have a conversation about it, that's fine by me.

you sound like a real FUN guy....!!!

 

[TEXnSEATTLE]

Indeed, instead of ripping out the pages that I read about Painter, Sweatt, or RLM, I think the whole point is that we take a critical look at those pages. Naming buildings after people is not an asymbolic gesture. I'll readily admit that they lived in a much different time, but their exact words, primary sourced literature, and beliefs about race do not stand the test of time to the point where people SHOULD have conversations about renaming the buildings. I don't know if/when it could happen, nor do I have that kind of authority.

I hear liberals say the same thing about the Bible or whatever. "It's MORONIC to put standards from 3000 years ago on those that live in a totally different time." And I disagree with that premise too. The university has an allegiance to truth, just like the Main Building says. A critical eye is important, and I can see why what the athletes did is pissing people on this board off. You feel strongly about representing the university, and when you witness something that doesn't jibe with that view, there are whole stages of grief that seem to take place.

I've never advocated for Vietnam memorials, nor do I see what that has to do with how UT venerated the Lost Cause persona.



I think I addressed that in my last comment, but as an individual, I don't think I wield any special magic wands of authority. It is my right to side with the athletes, Herman, Hartzell, etc. and think that we at least need a conversation about it. Just like it's your right to all-caps me to kingdom come, I feel that we could assign values to "things we see that we wish were different." I don't wish you to continue using all-caps, but I can evaluate why you keep doing it. If you don't feel strongly enough to take action over things that students might deem offensive, let alone have a conversation about it, that's fine by me.

again, you go and project my thoughts and feelings....not even closer to correct....what is your allegiance to 11?

 

[Horns11]

“It is my right to side with the athletes, Herman, Hartzell, etc. and think that we at least need a conversation about it.”

You’re not one of those people that’s never wrong, are you?

I'm not sure that thinking we need a conversation about the athletes' list makes me wrong, but I guess it does to the majority on this board.

again, you go and project my thoughts and feelings....not even closer to correct....what is your allegiance to 11?

For someone who wants to put me in my place so badly with the insults and how poorly I was raised to think I have the right to change something, and how little my reading about causes for concern 30 years ago matters today, you sure seem bent on making sure you're heard.

And that's part of the whole shebang... if athletes and people who supported them met and got a better understanding of where both sides were coming from, and compromised on the items I previously mentioned, then this would smooth over and the university wouldn't crumble and we can all go back to watching football, assuming coronavirus doesn't take that away too. It's almost sad that OK State basically resolved this in a 48-hour period and we're still discussing whether it's "OK" to have a conversation about this stuff.

 

[TEXnSEATTLE]

I'm not sure that thinking we need a conversation about the athletes' list makes me wrong, but I guess it does to the majority on this board.



For someone who wants to put me in my place so badly with the insults and how poorly I was raised to think I have the right to change something, and how little my reading about causes for concern 30 years ago matters today, you sure seem bent on making sure you're heard.

And that's part of the whole shebang... if athletes and people who supported them met and got a better understanding of where both sides were coming from, and compromised on the items I previously mentioned, then this would smooth over and the university wouldn't crumble and we can all go back to watching football, assuming coronavirus doesn't take that away too. It's almost sad that OK State basically resolved this in a 48-hour period and we're still discussing whether it's "OK" to have a conversation about this stuff.

the SHEBANG comes with one event that I had NO CONTROL over, nor did anyone else and the world was different and LOOTING, KILLING and LAWLESSNESS started....I was raised an ANTI-RACIST and that is how I have conducted my entire life....since THE EVENT I have been sighted for my WHITE PRIVELEGE and my INHERENT Racism....BOTH I do not possess and am not taking ownership for.....where I am coming from is to say there is nothing anyone has done to anyone to "see where both sides are coming from" ...are you kidding me....??? the images of the last two weeks of what I have seen and witnessed has totally changed my mind on such things....I did not say you were raised any way...I asked HOW your were raised to come to the conclusions that YOU should decide how everything is....WE HAVE DONE NOTHING TO DESERVE YOUR "RIGHT" of changing anything....I am still the same kind, ANTI-RACIST person I was a month ago, just less likely to take your B.S.

 

[Horns11]

the SHEBANG comes with one event that I had NO CONTROL over, nor did anyone else and the world was different and LOOTING, KILLING and LAWLESSNESS started....I was raised an ANTI-RACIST and that is how I have conducted my entire life....since THE EVENT I have been sighted for my WHITE PRIVELEGE and my INHERENT Racism....BOTH I do not possess and am not taking ownership for.....where I am coming from is to say there is nothing anyone has done to anyone to "see where both sides are coming from" ...are you kidding me....??? the images of the last two weeks of what I have seen and witnessed has totally changed my mind on such things....I did not say you were raised any way...I asked HOW your were raised to come to the conclusions that YOU should decide how everything is....WE HAVE DONE NOTHING TO DESERVE YOUR "RIGHT" of changing anything....I am still the same kind, ANTI-RACIST person I was a month ago, just less likely to take your B.S.

I can't read the athletes' letter out loud to you for emphasis. They're not calling for revenge or your head or whatever it is that you think is going to cost you so dearly.

My "both sides" comment is not aimed at antifa or whatever you think is propagating the looting. It's aimed at people who look at the list of the athletes' action items and disagree. Or at least have merited thought as to why they disagree. I already gave my thoughts about some of the problem areas like donating to BLM and unexplainable "inner city" programs that they aren't already doing. I think it would be something upon which to build consensus. Fenves ordered the Hogg statue back up after it was taken down in the Charlottesville aftermath... there were reasons why and it's something I think the athletes could hear.

I'm sorry that this seems to be hitting closer to home with everything Seattle is going through.

 

[Omniscient.one]

I'm not sure that thinking we need a conversation about the athletes' list makes me wrong, but I guess it does to the majority on this board.

You think something should happen that’s already happened (agreement made), a decision that’s been widely supported in the comments of CDC’s tweet. I think it may be time to step off the pedestal and join the majority of fans in finding a resolution.

 

[AustinBat]

And that is part of the problem......they barely teach history most places anymore and, if so, not very accurately or thoroughly and certainly not without an agenda

As a retired history and government teacher, you are absolutely right. And what is taught now is taught by primarily liberal teachers. I met one of my former students for HH several years ago and during our conversation it was obvious that she assumed I was liberal too. When I told her I was very conservative she just looked at me and said she never would have guessed that from being in my class. THAT IS THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE- teachIng, not indoctrination.

 

[SabreHorn]

11,

I have not held back my opinions from anyone including Chris or our new president. I am very angry at the way things were done. Heads need to roll WHEN we get the facts.

The players - no one will convince me that this is not the results of outside sources. That said, if the kids had their own beliefs, and did NOT take them to Herman, then it is on them for not knowing the correct way things are done. If, however, they went to Herman and got no response or attention, then it is on Herman, and he needs to be sent packing. Why did Gundy get things resolved in 48 hours? He is a players coach and always has his kids' backs. People laugh and make fun of him, but I said at the time and frequently since, his defense of Bobby Reid against that stupid ***** from Kansas City started a tidal wave through recruits that has lasted all this time and continues.

This is a learning experience for all concerned (not necessarily the fans). The players should learn proper handling of their grievances and the consequences for not doing that and involving people outside the program.

The coaches need to learn that they are getting paid 10 times what they are worth to win, but also nurture and produce young men of highest character. Failure to listen, respond, and perform all these duties have consequences.

For now, I remain pissed at all of the above (except Chris), but will save my unleashing until I find out whom is the deserving culprit.

I hope that never again is anything at The University of Texas is handled in such a disgraceful manner.

 

[Htown77]

I think what's lost on the anti-statue/building name group is WHY they were put up.

Why is there a statue of Joe Jamail? Why is the business school named after Red McCombs?

The university names this stuff after people who either greatly contributed academically or monetarily. They are why it exists at all. They are being honored for their university contributions. If someone wants to honor something else (Littlefield) and UT accepts the money and terms, then it is a done deal. If UT wants to remove stuff, they need to give the money back with interest.

Is the statue of George Washington there to honor a slave owner or to honor America's main founding father? Is the Martin Luther King Jr. statue there so honor his contributions in civil rights or is it there to honor his womanizing and anti-LGBT positions?

I mean you can literally look at the worst in ANYBODY as there are no perfect people. We build/name these things to honor the BEST in people. We honor them for what they achieved in creating a world class university that exists thanks to them and NOW creates opportunity for people of all races. We are not honoring them for whatever good or bad they did with the rest of their lives.

When we see Littlefield or Simkins or any of these other people, we are supposed to think "no matter how flawed you may have been, thank you for making this world class university I get to enjoy."

The thing is, with UT doing this, why would any big donor ever donate again. Believe me, Joe Jamail and Red McCombs made big mistakes. Their names/statutes are definitely coming down in the future. UT has sent a loud and clear message that is perfectly fine with taking down your name in the future if someone decides they do not like you. The message is "DO NOT DONATE TO THIS UNIVERSITY" if you want any long term say so in the architecture or long term recognition.

Tearing these down is not an F. U. to racism. It is an F. U. to donating to the University.

 

[Htown77]

I think what frustrates me even more is the people who put up or had buildings named after them earned them with their academic or monetary contributions. The people want them taken down are not making any major contributions and are not even paying to take them down. They are not earning their removal. In fact, they are costing the university more money with their demands. The same goes forstatues in general. They were generally paid for by donations of local groups or individuals, yet it is the taxpayer who pays for taking them down.

It is easy to naysay anything and demand its destruction. It is harder and more costly for an individual to make a great contribution and build something.

We now honor those who destroy, not those who create... and we wonder why the focus of people and our political parties is to destroy each other rather than build the country up. We value destruction of opposition, not creation and compromise.