Another shooter -- usual suspects scramling on blame game

[Clean]

Were you expecting Obama to say something different than the local Police Chief? I'd hope the POTUS would be at least as measured as the local PD.

Before six this morning, Bill Bennett, on the Morning in America radio show, and a guest were was discussing it matter-of-factly as an act of terrorism. The guest was espousing stopping ALL Middle Eastern immigration to the U.S.

I'm pretty sure BO gets better intel than Bill does. If the FBI was watching this guy as reported, once he was identified, the President should have known it was terrorism. Of course, BO may decide to blame it on a YouTube video or something.

 

[Horn6721]

Isn't a shotgun a semi automatic long gun?

I wonder how many crimes have been committed by people openly carrying.

 

[texas_ex2000]

I know gun violence is a problem in Chicago, a city with strict gun laws and a gang problem. On a statewide basis though, rates of per capita gun violence in Illinois ranks far behind that in places like Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi where the gun laws are pretty much written the way the NRA lobbyists asked.

So what you're saying is rural Illinois, which likely has a higher per capita gun ownership then Chicago, dilutes the insanely high gun homicide rate in Chicago.

And when you say "gun violence" are you also including suicides by gun?

 

[Seattle Husker]

Before six this morning, Bill Bennett, on the Morning in America radio show, and a guest were was discussing it matter-of-factly as an act of terrorism. The guest was espousing stopping ALL Middle Eastern immigration to the U.S.

I'm pretty sure BO gets better intel than Bill does. If the FBI was watching this guy as reported, once he was identified, the President should have known it was terrorism. Of course, BO may decide to blame it on a YouTube video or something.

Wait, BO actually said it may have been "mixed motives". Could that be true? Some radicalized person that was planning an attack that ultimately decides to turn their wrath on their co-workers? Based on the evidence at hand, that may fall into the Occam's Razor category.

 

[Crockett]

So what you're saying is rural Illinois, which likely has a higher per capita gun ownership then Chicago, dilutes the insanely high gun homicide rate in Chicago.

My point is that "arm everybody and criminals will be deterred" is not a winning strategy.

 

[texas_ex2000]

Legal or no, I think it's bizarre as all hell to walk through the neighborhood carrying a rifle and two pistols and worthy of police attention. I don't hate firearms. I own them and shoot, but I don't have a lot in common with the Texas Open Carry folks.

I agree. The only time I carry open is when I'm fishing pretty far from the trailhead mainly if I accidentally stir a black bear when hiking by her den and cubs. That's very infrequent because I don't get to fish in the real holes as much as I used to.

Practically, in a modern age where we have conceal carry, it is ridiculous to be walking down the street with an AR-15. I do agree with open carry purely on a principle perspective (and there is merit to standing up for certain things based simply on principle), but if you're a pro-2nd Amendment person, there are better ways to use your energy to affect policy.

 

[Joe Fan]

That's a tremendous view from a right-wing lens. I wonder what a similar view with a left-wing lens would look like?

I bet one of those word cloud things limited to conservatives for the full 48 hour period would be dominated by some combination involving the word "terrorism." Maybe "prayers" second? Certainly showing some consistency. Not flip-flopping all over the place as professional activists dangled new buzz words out there like sizzling tofu gnudi balls before some famished pajama boy.

 

[texas_ex2000]

My point is that "arm everybody and criminals will be deterred" is not a winning strategy.

Crockett, the statistics on this issue can be interpreted any way someone wants to.

Over the past 30 years, gun crime and homicides are down. Some may attribute that to lower gun ownership, but one can also point to an exponential increase in conceal carry holders.

 

[Joe Fan]

I know gun violence is a problem in Chicago, a city with strict gun laws and a gang problem. On a statewide basis though, rates of per capita gun violence in Illinois ranks far behind that in places like Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi

The last one of these published stat lists I saw showed Obama's home of the District of Columbia leads this category. By a pretty wide margin. Home of probably the strictest gun laws in the land.

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[Joe Fan]

Where do we suppose they learned how to do this?

 

[Crockett]

Over the past 30 years, gun crime and homicides are down. Some may attribute that to lower gun ownership, but one can also point to an exponential increase in conceal carry holders.

It is complicated. A lot of it is from the would-be shooters state of mind. One overlooked factor is removal of lead from paint. Another is that we're doing a much better job of handling domestic violence. Back in the old days it was really easy for perps to intimidate domestic violence victims (spouses or girlfriends who wouldn't press charges) and the habit, unpunished, escalated. Now if the cops show up, a woman is battered and bruised and the husband had blood on his knuckles, they can file charges whether she cooperates or not. Domestic abusers who face consequences are much less likely to reoffend.

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[MudHorn]

Where do we suppose they learned how to do this?

As a practical matter it is almost impossible to "delete" emails so that they cannot be recovered from a server or backup somewhere. Once data is generated online the digital trail is usually deep and wide.

 

[Joe Fan]

That's a tremendous view from a right-wing lens. I wonder what a similar view with a left-wing lens would look like?

Geraldo was living in his own private narrative.

 

[Joe Fan]

As a practical matter it is almost impossible to "delete" emails so that they cannot be recovered from a server or backup somewhere. Once data is generated online the digital trail is usually deep and wide.

Hillary?

 

[MudHorn]

Hillary?

If she had a private mail server then obviously data on that machine can be destroyed, but it doesn't take into account the senders and recipients she communicated with, and their copies of the messages. I don't know the technical details in her case.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

That's a tremendous view from a right-wing lens. I wonder what a similar view with a left-wing lens would look like?

I suspect it would look pretty f'ing stupid.

 

[texas_ex2000]

It is complicated. A lot of it is from the would-be shooters state of mind. One overlooked factor is removal of lead from paint. Another is that we're doing a much better job of handling domestic violence. Back in the old days it was really easy for perps to intimidate domestic violence victims (spouses or girlfriends who wouldn't press charges) and the habit, unpunished, escalated. Now if the cops show up, a woman is battered and bruised and the husband had blood on his knuckles, they can file charges whether she cooperates or not. Domestic abusers who face consequences are much less likely to reoffend.

Nail on head. We've become better at this sort of preventive efforts, and given that the 2nd Amenment is in the Bill of Rights, this is where we should be putting our energy. I say that not only from a Constitutional princple perspective but also from a technocratic efficiency perspective.

Even though the media may not communicate it, gun deaths and especially gun homicides are down. I think part of that is technology has improved our macro quality of life. And when that happens people are less likely to commit crime. And as you point out, we're smarter about the preventive policing because we have better data anlaysis and models now. What will make a truly disruptive change to gun deaths is a cultural change in the revaluation of nuclear families. Everything else that has helped the problem has been tuning auxilary systems...but the nuclear family is the engine.

Now terrorism is another issue all together. And as Paris has shown, a gun prohibition did nothing to stop that massacre. In fact, if that happened in Texas it likely would have been slowed down by CCLs.

 

[Joe Fan]

Several news outlets are still calling it workplace violence this morning



Apparently she was making her Facebook ISIS-allegiance posting at the same moment Obama was giving an interview to CNN saying "Americans were safe from ISIS."

 

[Horn6721]

Concerning to learn there is apparently no record anywhere is the Arab world of this female named Tashfeen Malik. It seems that is a typically male name whose history dates back to an early muslim killer.
so again, tell us how strict the vetting is? think if her name had been Jengis( yes that Kerry) Khan someone doing the vetting MIGHT have noticed?

 

[Crockett]

So 6721, so you're saying maybe it was a joke name, like in Monty Python's the Life of Brian.

 

[Horn6721]

It might seem like a joke to you but she surely took her namesake seriously, murdering innocent people in cold blood.
No I don't think she meant it as a joke. She might have laughed at how naïve and gullible Americans are for letting her in. I don't know, that may qualify as a joke to you. Not to me.

 

[Joe Fan]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/03/polit...ed-to-buy-guns/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

 

[ProdigalHorn]

I think the idea of barring those on a no-fly list has wings (metaphorically speaking...), but the terrorist list will never work for one simple reason. Depending on who you ask, a right-to-life organization could be deemed a terrorist organization. Plenty of environmental groups could be deemed terrorist groups. PETA could be deemed a terrorist group. It's all in the eyes of whoever is in charge at the moment.

Unless there is a set-in-stone definition of a terrorist group, it will never work. And even then, it's unlikely it would ever be written in order to include people like Muslim Brotherhood - or any group linked to terrorist activity which denies its own involvement and publicly "condemns" those acts.

 

[ProdigalHorn]

BTW just read comments from a CNN reporter who asked an interview something along the lines of "couldn't there be some other motive behind her actions, maybe postpartum depression or something like that?"

It's like they're desperate to come up with ANYTHING...

 

[Horn6721]

I also saw the "family attorney" say that nothing makes sense, It is ridiculous to think they did it.. That the first time his clients are seen was in the back of a pick up handcuffed and shot dead. The attorney said Tashfeen only weighed 90 lbs so she couldn't have shot the long gun. I would expect an attorney to ay some of this. ( who is paying him?)
The left will jump all over his remarks to explain or as Kerry put it ' justify" this.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/04/us/tashfeen-malik-san-bernardino-shooting-what-we-know/index.html

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[Joe Fan]

I think the idea of barring those on a no-fly list has wings (metaphorically speaking...), .....

I was thinking that if they are on the no-fly list then we should not not let them fly into the country. This should largely alleviate the issues involved with allowing them make a legal gun purchase once inside the US.