I did. A lot of wishful thinking that may or may not be true. We know there's a lot of fraud in this election but can it be proven and will the amounts be enough to turn the states? I think we can win Pennsylvania in the courts. Arizona? Who knows? If we lose that state by a few thousand an internal audit may find several thousand illegals voted for Biden. Possibly, but not a given. What about Georgia? Are we going to be able to knock out over 10,000 votes to turn it red?
2020 Presidential Election: let the jockeying commence
- Thread starter ProdigalHorn
- Start date
I did. A lot of wishful thinking that may or may not be true. We know there's a lot of fraud in this election but can it be proven and will the amounts be enough to turn the states? I think we can win Pennsylvania in the courts. Arizona? Who knows? If we lose that state by a few thousand an internal audit may find several thousand illegals voted for Biden. Possibly, but not a given. What about Georgia? Are we going to be able to knock out over 10,000 votes to turn it red?
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
My position is that no matter the eventual outcome (even if it only confirms Biden) there must be full audits or perhaps even a re-vote in certain states
This is the only way to restore some level of confidence in this election
Without that, I admit I am somewhat concerned about what might happen
Our side wont loot or riot or start fires .... but ..... if 71 million think the election was stolen from them, it only takes one capable person to create a serious problem. And we have a lot of capable people. So if we are forced to remain under this current cloud of election corruption, it would not shock me at all if something big were to happen again (like 1995). Better to avoid that chance altogether with a full audit/re-vote
That's the thing. We know FOR A FACT there would have been riots and looting had Trump prevailed. Yet the b*stard lying totalitarian socialists now are screeching about Trump not accepting the results. Hillary questioned whether he would accept a loss and when he won we saw the Mueller Report, the impeachment and years of looting and burning protests.
And I'm not talking about the response to police shootings. I'm talking about the pathetic white triggered little Liberals.
And they have the arrogance to pretend otherwise. It's either pathological delusion born of the OCD that cannot handle reality or they are lying power hungry Machiavellians bent on intimidating the right into compliance.
That's why they hate Trump; he is not afraid.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
I dont think Al Gore conceded until Dec 13
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Moskman1215
25+ Posts
Since the day Trump took office it was a landslide of negativity from the news outlets and congress to make his life miserable. They divided the country and made sure there was no way in Hell he could get another 4 years. I think the George Floyd (horrible) situation and Trump attacking Fauci lost him the female vote. The Dems will blame everything that goes wrong on Trump for the next 3-4 years - Covid, the economy, and everything else. It's hard for a Republican to win and I sure hope they find a Candidate who can lead. It's been a rough week.
I read Trump did better among white women than 2016. Yes, he could have had more votes.
It's nice to see that the perp was caught and prosecuted. I guess Rudy, Eric, Don Jr. and I are all in agreement that all legal votes should be counted and none of the illegal ones. Of course the system is not perfect, but if they caught this guy altering a few dozen votes it's hard to imagine how in a presidential election under rigorous attention from lawyers and the public, thousand of illegally cast ballots will unnoticed, uncorrected and unprosecuted.
If the allegations of widespread vote fraud are true, something will come of it in the courts and less partisan media. If it's ********, it won't get any traction except among liars and the hyperpartisan right wing media that hangs on their every word.
Duck Dodgers
1,000+ Posts
"It's hard to imagine how in a presidential election under rigorous attention from lawyers and the public, thousand of illegally cast ballots will unnoticed, uncorrected and unprosecuted."
Don't know much about big cites do ya?
Don't know much about big cites do ya?
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Prior to the 2016 election, the Obama/Biden Admin spent six months chasing the Russia Collusion hoax story.
By Jan 20, 2017, both Brennon and Clapper were admitting they had nothing.
Despite that, Comey plowed ahead with the Russia hoax for another 5 months.
And then .... Robert Mueller dug into it for another 22 months (he came up with bupkis too)
So, please, can we at least have just a few weeks to look at ballot integrity?
No, but I've found political scandals pretty interesting over my lifetime. The hard-bitten partisans surrounding Nixon all eventually sang like birds. It's hard to imagine an election judge in Philadelpia, Phoenix, Detroit or Milwaukee could keep malfeasance under wraps ... since multiple people would have to be in the know and the physical evidence is onsite. Duck Dodger, (excluding what you hear from the Commander in Chief and his partisans) what do you know about big city vote counting? Do you have some special experience and expertise we should know about?
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Duck Dodgers
1,000+ Posts
Why would it be hard to keep the same big city vote fixing, that's been done since the days of Tammy Hall quiet?
Vote fixing benefits the people in control of the voting process. You honestly expect a Democrat DA to investigate voter fraud that benefits his party?
It's also done by the same political side that the entirety of the media votes for themselves, and donates money too.
You think the Philly Inquirer is going to investigate voter fraud? When it puts into office the candidates they endorse?
So it's not investigated and not prosecuted. Other than that, it's a free and fail process.
Vote fixing benefits the people in control of the voting process. You honestly expect a Democrat DA to investigate voter fraud that benefits his party?
It's also done by the same political side that the entirety of the media votes for themselves, and donates money too.
You think the Philly Inquirer is going to investigate voter fraud? When it puts into office the candidates they endorse?
So it's not investigated and not prosecuted. Other than that, it's a free and fail process.
One state... and Gore conceded after the vote recount was thwarted by an embarrassingly partisan Supreme Court and after he came out ahead in the popular vote. Biden's win seems much more clear cut, wider margins in more place. If there is real evidence of election-outcome-altering election fraud, I am sure the President's multi-million dollar legal team will turn it up. Not to mention Republicans handle the levers of power in Georgia and Arizona.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
His people never conceded and spent the next 4 years making sure everyone knew about it
Duck Dodgers
1,000+ Posts
Gore conceded in December, so plenty of time for this election to play out, by the Gore standard.
It was a 7-2 vote that the standards that the leftist Florida Supreme Court set for vote counting were in violation of the Equal Protection Clause. It was a 5-4 vote that it was too late to go back and set a proper and equal standard, so the current vote today which showed Bush ahead was the final one.
Interesting, various media outfits went back months later and attempted to do their own recount, to show that Gore had it stolen from him - these showed actually that Bush would have won by an even large margin, so into the memory hole for them.
Total popular vote means nothing - it's like W VA looking at number of first downs or conversions on 3rd down or total yards to claim a win. If the winner was by popular vote, the game would be played differently. Trump would have spent time in CA, IL, and NY to fire up his voters there, many of whom didn't bother to vote as their vote would not affect the outcome.
And Republicans control the Legislatures in AZ, GA, MI, WI, and PA, and all will need to certify the alleged results before they are official.
It was a 7-2 vote that the standards that the leftist Florida Supreme Court set for vote counting were in violation of the Equal Protection Clause. It was a 5-4 vote that it was too late to go back and set a proper and equal standard, so the current vote today which showed Bush ahead was the final one.
Interesting, various media outfits went back months later and attempted to do their own recount, to show that Gore had it stolen from him - these showed actually that Bush would have won by an even large margin, so into the memory hole for them.
Total popular vote means nothing - it's like W VA looking at number of first downs or conversions on 3rd down or total yards to claim a win. If the winner was by popular vote, the game would be played differently. Trump would have spent time in CA, IL, and NY to fire up his voters there, many of whom didn't bother to vote as their vote would not affect the outcome.
And Republicans control the Legislatures in AZ, GA, MI, WI, and PA, and all will need to certify the alleged results before they are official.
Duck Dodgers
1,000+ Posts
The standard plan is:
When Democrat behind - count every vote, every vote counts! Cheer when votes are being counted for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th time. No hurry on things, the integrity of the process is at stake. Process play out for however long it takes
When Republican behind - elections over, move on, nothing to see about 95% turnout in Philly, they just are really interested in politics!
WillUSAF
500+ Posts
I understand that you are partisan. But you can say that if there is no proof? I think I remember the same thing happening (pretty much the last 4 years) that Trump stole the election from Clinton.
If there is some irregularity in the voting then it needs changed. But there is no proof as of yet. I ask. If you replace Biden's name with Trump's and the exact same scenario was going on would ya'll be making these same statements? My guess is no.
The Coleman-Stuart Smalley senator race in MN took forever. Dems found enough votes to win.
WillUSAF
500+ Posts
I'm not a lawyer but the key word that keeps coming up in these conversations is the word "found". Now are these the same states that "found" votes for Trump in 2016?
Duck Dodgers
1,000+ Posts
The recounts are still ongoing, and in AZ, the first count. So there is no reason for anything to be declared now, or any concessions. That's all we'd hear if a Democrat was behind.
Found votes are votes that, as the name implies, were not included, mysteriously, in the first counting, but appear in later counts. Always in big cites run by Democrats.
2016 took everyone by surprise. Since it was thought to be mathematically impossible for Trump to to win then, the fraud machine was not cranked up, and they were caught flatfooted. Notice how MI WI PA all concluded their counts on election night in 16, while in this election its still on going.
Found votes are votes that, as the name implies, were not included, mysteriously, in the first counting, but appear in later counts. Always in big cites run by Democrats.
2016 took everyone by surprise. Since it was thought to be mathematically impossible for Trump to to win then, the fraud machine was not cranked up, and they were caught flatfooted. Notice how MI WI PA all concluded their counts on election night in 16, while in this election its still on going.
All these inconsistencies and yet the claims “show me the evidence”. How in the heck do you honestly expect evidence without investigation? For me all those ballots where Biden would have to have been the only vote is enough for me to go hmmmm? I certainly accept that there might be some people who only vote on a Pres, although I find it strange, but thousands, millions? No, not a chance.
If Trump behaves as honorably as Gore and "his team" over the next 4 days or 4 years, it will be a delightful surprise.
The difference was the Republican legislatures prevented early counting of ballots. In my state, the absentee ballots were ready to count and returns were released immediately on election night. Maybe the GOP will decide that's a good idea everywhere.
Duck Dodgers
1,000+ Posts
Gore crawfished on his concession, then spent the next 40 days fighting over the results of the FLA election. Please don't try to portray Gore as the second coming of Nixon in '60 when he didn't fight the vote fixing in Texas or Illinois.
Gore did everything he could to win. I expect President Trump to do the same.
Gore did everything he could to win. I expect President Trump to do the same.
WillUSAF
500+ Posts
There was not the amount of mail in votes in 2016 either. Every state has their own laws on how they count them. Most wait until after in person voting. Since Republicans do not agree there has to be fraud? Trump warned of "fraud" for weeks leading up to the election. The reason he played that card is he knew that Republicans don't vote overwhelming by mail. The Dems do not show up to the polls in numbers that Rs do, but if you mail them a ballot of course more Ds are going to vote. More states gave more opinions to vote this year due to covid (PA included, their R state legislature approved it). So your talking point of MI WI and PA counting all of their votes on election night has no footing.
There were only 2 outcomes to this election:
1. Trump wins - Rs shouting from the hills that Trump is the messiah and everything he does is great and he can not be beaten no matter what.
2. Biden wins - the voting is rigged. Trump still wins. Only shouting now is everyone is cheating.
Now I voted for Trump this time (Lord forgive me) but he has no proof and the talking points that being put out there just have no basis other than conspiracy theories IMO
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