Way too early republican primary thread

I wish people would just listen to Carson discuss policy and opt for other candidates. But if supporters love him for his "life story" then I guess poking that life story full of holes might be the way to go. Not sure who is gathering political intelligence and feeding it to the media. At least somebody seems interested in "real" information instead of the conjured up bs.
 
I think he would be a pretty bad candidate for the republicans. Everything goes through a media filter unless you are very direct and articulate. If not, the media will explain what you "really mean". If you a dem, this is great because they will fill in all the gaps in a beautiful, positive way. If you bumble and stumble as a republican, they will fill in the gaps to fit their narrative. Although kooky on some things (the pyramids, for example), he's a really smart man. He has a hard time explaining things sometimes, which doesn't mean he's not intelligent, just not a great fit. If this gets him out of the race, trump will be having a party.
 
Who has the vested interest in outing Carson's backstory as less than 100% accurate? Trump? The RNC? I don't think it would be Rubio as Carson's is an immediate threat to Trump/Fiorina as an "outsider". I can't imagine it's the Democrats at this time as one would expect they'd love Carson to be the R nominee.

The fact that nobody can corroborate Carson's "I was a very angry young man" story casts further doubt on his story.
 
My guess for expert use of Political Intelligence would be Jeb, since he has political pros on his staff and a vested interest in getting the Republican electorate to start looking at "serious candidates." George W. and crew weren't hesitant to play hardball in 1999-2000 time frame.
 
I don't see Trump doing it. I can see Jeb or perhaps Rubio doing it. Personally, I do hope it ends his candidacy. He'd be a horrendous nominee.
 
Crockett said:
My guess for expert use of Political Intelligence would be Jeb, since he has political pros on his staff and a vested interest in getting the Republican electorate to start looking at "serious candidates." George W. and crew weren't hesitant to play hardball in 1999-2000 time frame.
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I can't make up my mind on this one. Carson getting knocked out would seem to consolidate the "outsider" vote behind trump instead of keeping it divided. That could be dangerous for Rubio and Bush. BUT, those guys plus the RNC may want to knock Carson out early, thinking that Trump will fade away or they can concentrate all of their attacks on one person.
 
Maybe there is a commonality between Trump and Carson that evades me. One is brash, belligerant and boastful and the other so quiet you have to shut down just to hear him.
 
Larry T Spider said:
I can't make up my mind on this one. Carson getting knocked out would seem to consolidate the "outsider" vote behind trump instead of keeping it divided. That could be dangerous for Rubio and Bush. BUT, those guys plus the RNC may want to knock Carson out early, thinking that Trump will fade away or they can concentrate all of their attacks on one person.
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They're so different in style and on issues that I can't imagine Carson's people going to Trump.
 
Mr. Deez said:
They're so different in style and on issues that I can't imagine Carson's people going to Trump.
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Don't underestimate the "outsider" craze in the Republican party. Trump or Fiorina would be the big winner. Seriously, what else does Carson have to offer as POTUS other than being an "outsider"?
 
A defense of Carson, and though it's clearly a conservative source, I think it makes some good points. Decide for yourselves what the truth is. I don't particularly care. I want Carson to lose, because he would guarantee a HRC victory.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Don't underestimate the "outsider" craze in the Republican party. Trump or Fiorina would be the big winner. Seriously, what else does Carson have to offer as POTUS other than being an "outsider"?
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No doubt the outsider craze is a big deal. However, I think we also have to keep in mind why people flocked to Carson in the first place. I think they flocked to him because they preferred a measured, calm, and kind personality over Trump's recklessness, coarseness, and belligerence. They may also be less militant about illegal immigration.

If they have the option of going to Fiorina, I think they'll take her over Trump. She's not as personable as Carson is, but she's not the blatant ******* that Trump is. Frankly, that would be my preference. I think she'd be a much better general election candidate than Trump or Carson.
 
NJlonghorn said:
Oy. I think there are far better reasons to sink Ben Carson's candidacy, but this just may be the one that does it. It's not quite the same as Stolen Valor, but it has some similar concerns.
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Fiorina has always been my first choice and I hope she wins, however I do like Carson. But this, "similar concerns" to Stolen Valor is, sorry NJ, F%#!ng RIDICULOUS. "Not quite the same," Are we serious?

Again, this is how it happens...and people are falling for it.

Stolen Valor is stealing VA benefits. Stolen Valor is wearing a fake Medal of Honor, Purple Heart, or SEAL Budweiser. I have met idiots at bars who pretended to be fighter pilots. Because of my very unremarkable appearance and stature they never would have guessed I was an intelligence officer at a Hornet squadron and CVW.

This is a media hack job and has nothing to do with or resemble or have any similarities to Stolen Valor. I'm not saying the media shouldn't scrutinize politicians and their stories. But if you're going after a world class brain surgeon and Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient, you better have some real facts.

1) CNN's - "Some of his classmates don't remember him having a berserker rage." I don't where to start on this one. All I can say is, you're a moron if you're using more than 1% of your brain on this.

2) Politico - "He was never accepted in West Point." Carson never said he applied to West Point, and his story - a verbal "if this is what you want, you can come" is completely credible especially after meeting Gen. Westmoreland, and especially for a gifted black JROTC cadet in the 60s. The application process to the service academies is not like a regular college application. I wouldn't expect him to go into the detailed minutia of the difference between college and service academy applications, especially if his audience is not familiar with the process. When I recruited high-school kids into officer programs, I referred to Annapolis as a full scholarship all the time.

He has been consistent in his telling of this story in the handful of times he has actually talked about West Point publicly.

Carson has come out swinging on these, much more so than he normally does. Deez' article below gets it right as far as what he and his campaign has said, and how the media reports it.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/960/no-ben-carson-didnt-lie-about-west-point-its-ben-shapiro

The media, there is no other way to put this, has made up headlines....lying to their readers. Who really is aboveboard?
 
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Mr. Deez said:
Decide for yourselves what the truth is. I don't particularly care. I want Carson to lose, because he would guarantee a HRC victory.
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Deez, you don't care what the truth is? If this is how he lost, you would be okay with how it went down?

There is more to all of this, our democracy, than just policy wonkishness.
 
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/06/politics/ben-carson-responds-violent-past-new-day/index.html

Politico also reported that West Point would have a record of whether he applied in 1969. But West Point spokeswoman Theresa Brinkerhoff told CNN there would be no records about Carson's interaction with the school unless he actually enrolled. Files on potential cadets from that time would have only been kept three years unless the person became a student, she said.

"No matter what at this point, because the records were so many years ago, we wouldn't have anything on him," she said.

While an official letter of admission would have come from the adjutant general of the Army, who was not Westmoreland, she said it was common for top military officials to recruit the best and brightest high school students. And she said she could imagine that the school's lack of tuition -- as a federally funded institution -- could have been communicated or interpreted as a scholarship.

"I wouldn't find that odd, that a general would pursue a discussion to kind of talk to him and say, 'Do you know what West Point would offer you?' And if you're using general terminology to a 17-year-old, I could see how you would call them scholarships. We don't use that terminology, (but) I could see how that could occur," Brinkerhoff said.
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texas_ex2000 said:
Deez, you don't care what the truth is? If this is how he lost, you would be okay with how it went down?

There is more to all of this, our democracy, than just policy wonkishness.
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I shouldn't say I don't care. I would rather he not go down this way, and the more I learn about this, the more it sounds like sloppy and/or biased media rather than true dishonesty on Carson's part.

However, his nomination is a de facto concession to Hillary Clinton, so in that sense, I do want him to go down. If this does it, that sucks, but I'd prefer that to him getting the nomination.
 
texas_ex2000 said:
... When I recruited high-school kids into officer programs, I referred to Annapolis as a full scholarship all the time.

He has been consistent in his telling of this story in the handful of times he has actually talked about West Point publicly.

...
The media, there is no other way to put this, has made up headlines....lying to their readers. Who really is aboveboard?
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Well said, 2000.

I, too, had the privilege to work with the "best & brightest" in our high schools as a USAFA admissions liaison.

Carson isn't my first choice, but he IS in the top 3. Integrity matters. It's going to be seriously challenged in office, compromise being our solution to everything, so it's likely to take hits, not improve. Need that integrity to start as high as we can get it. None have higher integrity than Carson.

Huckabee, Cruz, Carson are my favs in this spectacle of a POTUS election process ... I don't like deferring to the RNC & DNC for the "choice." The qualifying candidates should all be on the ballot & "super Tuesday" should be the first in a series of run offs through the summer to arrive at TWO in November .. oh, & the electors shouldn't be required to vote with the state, but the only the district they represent. it's a federal office and the only one in which the entire nation votes.
 
HRC hasn't won/been coronated/et al the other side of the "pre-approved" options ... do you not recall how she was the presumptive nominee this time in '07??? I certainly do, then FL & MI (?) democrat primaries were "invalidated" ... suddenly, the community organizer w/ all sorts of sealed records became "the one" ... while the dipsticks controlling the alternative offered whom???

Any of those 3 can beat HRC anyhow ... So ... No. ;)
 
ShAArk92 said:
HRC hasn't won/been coronated/et al the other side of the "pre-approved" options ... do you not recall how she was the presumptive nominee this time in '07??? I certainly do, then FL & MI (?) democrat primaries were "invalidated" ... suddenly, the community organizer w/ all sorts of sealed records became "the one" ... while the dipsticks controlling the alternative offered whom???
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There is no Barack Obama challenging her this time. She's going to be the nominee.

Any of those 3 can beat HRC anyhow ... So ... No. ;)
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Dream on, Bro. Rubio can beat her. John Kasich can beat her. Huckabee, Cruz, and Carson would get hammered. They'd win the slam dunk Republican states, but they'd have to fight to win the GOP leaning states like Indiana, North Carolina, Arizona, and Georgia and would probably lose some of them. They'd decisively lose all of the true swing states like Colorado, Ohio, Florida, Nevada, Virginia, etc. It would look like 2008, and Democrats would probably take the Senate.
 
Republican candidates with a chance to beat HRC:
Kasich
Rubio
Fiorina

Those are my top choices, simply because I think that any of them would beat HRC. The *maybe* could beat HRC candidates are:
Bush
Cruz

Supporting anybody other than those 5 is the same as supporting HRC IMHO.
 
Mr. Deez said:
There is no Barack Obama challenging her this time. She's going to be the nominee.
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Who here who isn't a poly scie major or the then-senator's page had even heard of Barack Obama in November '07. Too many of my liberal buddies with integrity aren't voting for her.

IDK who'll be crowned worthy to be on the ticket ... again, since we don't get to pick 'em ... but I don't think it'll be HRC.
 
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