Trump!!!

[Mr. Deez]

Man, you guys are way off on the appeal of Trump. If you think the GOP wants him, you are off your meds.

Who says the GOP wants Trump? Clearly a significant number of GOP voters do, but the party leadership and insiders so not. Why not? Two reasons. First, he's not a fiscal conservative. Second, he pretty much guarantees a Democratic win.

To tell people that shutting down Muslim immigration to US temporarily is anti-American and "not that simple" is why people are running to Trump, because, frankly, it IS that simple.

Not everything has to be complicated, but some suggestions are are overly simplistic. Codifying overt religious discrimination into our immigration laws isn't simple at all. First, though it's not unconstitutional, it very much goes against conventional American values, and it would not surprise me to see the Supreme Court strike it down.

Second, if you think it won't have international implications, you're nuts. We have very significant and friendly economic, military, and diplomatic relations with several nations with large Islamic populations. Are we ready to tell them all to **** off?

 

[Phil Elliott]

Who says the GOP wants Trump?

The following was not talking about Trump? I thought that was the point of the thread.

It's a self immolating ideological political organization trying to find any leader that's willing to espouse it's views even if they have no hope of ever winning an election, or even are genuine believers.

Second, if you think it won't have international implications, you're nuts. We have very significant and friendly economic, military, and diplomatic relations with several nations with large Islamic populations. Are we ready to tell them all to **** off?

Who is saying **** off? All he said was we needed to halt this type of immigration until we can figure out how to get a handle on things. I am not seeing why that is so unreasonable given the problems we already have. Jimmy Carter did it with Iranian immigrants in the 70s, nobody screamed how un-American he was. To say there is not any kind of religious test or requirement to enter the US is not correct and is counter to current US law.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Jimmy Carter did it with Iranian immigrants in the 70s, nobody screamed how un-American he was.

Country (Iran - 78.4M citizens) = Religion (Muslim 2B+ members from every country in the world)

Seriously, that's the equivalency you want to go with? A single contained country that was our enemy vs. the worlds second largest religion?

For your next carnival act can you elaborate on how you'd test for "Muslim"? I'd also like to know what type of religious test you think is already in place to enter the US.

 

[Joe Fan]

....BTW- Al-Shabab is now using Trump's anti-Muslim rhetoric in a recruiting video.

They were not at the time of her statement/lie.
Indeed, it would appear she gave them the idea.

 

[Seattle Husker]

They were not at the time of her statement/lie.
Indeed, it would appear she gave them the idea.

Agree at the time it was a lie. She gave them the idea though? Yeah, ISIS have demonstrated social media immaturity.

 

[Mr. Deez]

The following was not talking about Trump? I thought that was the point of the thread.

Trump is the point of the thread, but most people can distinguish between the grassroots and the leadership. Some of the grassroots want Trump. None of the leadership does.

Who is saying **** off?

If we summarily ban Muslims from entering the United States, then we are.

Jimmy Carter did it with Iranian immigrants in the 70s, nobody screamed how un-American he was.

Banning immigration from a sworn enemy nation is not the same as banning immigration of all persons of a particular religion regardless of origin. The scenarios aren't remotely analogous.

All he said was we needed to halt this type of immigration until we can figure out how to get a handle on things. I am not seeing why that is so unreasonable given the problems we already have.

It's unreasonable because it will lead to a backlash that would hurt us far more than any benefit that would come from it. There are much smarter ways to keep bad apples out.

 

[Joe Fan]

.... She gave them the idea though? ....

Yes, she sent them the idea in an email.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Yes, she sent them the idea in an email.

Or it was a very obvious idea that didn't take a weak candidate like HRC to point out.

 

[Joe Fan]

Or it was a very obvious idea that didn't take a weak candidate like HRC to point out.

I will prove to you she sent them the idea by email in 10 years -- after 54 FOIA requests, 3 lawsuits and the appointment of a special prosecutor.

 

[Seattle Husker]

LOL! I loathe HRC and recognize that she completely obfuscated any investigation but I think the Clintons, as a couple, have had more tax payer money dedicated to frivolous investigations than any set of US politicians in our history. It's my primary argument how hypocritical the Republicans are when it comes to government spending.

 

[Phil Elliott]

It's unreasonable because it will lead to a backlash that would hurt us far more than any benefit that would come from it.

Putting the feelings of these "other nations" ahead of the security of American citizens is what is making Donald Trump so popular. Many Americans are tired of politicians and elites telling them that they must put their own safety on a back-burner so we don't make these guys mad. The very idea that just being nice to them will make them like us is incredibly stupid.

There are much smarter ways to keep bad apples out.

And you expect our government to be able to do something "smart"?

I'm not trying to tell you whether DT's plan will work or will not work, I am only explaining why he is leading most polls. Dismissing his supporters as stupid tells them they are right to support him, because they've been told that all along by Dems, and betrayed by the GOP.

 

[Phil Elliott]

It's my primary argument how hypocritical the Republicans are when it comes to government spending.

And you are complaining about my "equivalency" problems? You are saying that to be in favor of spending money to enforce the Constitution means you cannot be against any other spending? Dude, please.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Putting the feelings of these "other nations" ahead of the security of American citizens is what is making Donald Trump so popular. Many Americans are tired of politicians and elites telling them that they must put their own safety on a back-burner so we don't make these guys mad. The very idea that just being nice to them will make them like us is incredibly stupid.

Typical Trump supporter response - presume that the only implications are political correctness and feelings. I'm not concerned with feelings, but I am concerned with actions. Take for example, a country like Djibouti. They are predominantly pro-Western, and US troops and personnel are stationed there, along with their families. In fact, it's one of the more important overseas US military installations, because of its strategic location. It's a rare safe country (safe enough that our troops can bring their families with them) that's also close to Middle East hot spots. It's also almost entirely Islamic. Do you think that if we tell them that virtually their entire country is unwelcome in the United States that it will improve or worsen our relations with them? How do you think they'll treat US troops who are currently stationed there? I don't necessarily care about their feelings, but I do care about how our troops and their families are treated overseas.

In addition, I'm not convinced that this actually improves our safety. For one thing, it helps polarize the Islamic world. That's not safe. It's dangerous and stupid if done needlessly. Furthermore, it creates a logistical mess. How do you verify objectively that someone is or is not a Muslim? Do you think that a terrorist trying to enter the US is going to tell you he's a Muslim if he knows it's going to prevent his entry? Not likely. The most likely implication is global alienation with little or no benefit on the safety front.

And you expect our government to be able to do something "smart"?

No, but there are degrees of stupidity.

I'm not trying to tell you whether DT's plan will work or will not work, I am only explaining why he is leading most polls. Dismissing his supporters as stupid tells them they are right to support him, because they've been told that all along by Dems, and betrayed by the GOP.

His supporters are colossal morons, but I certainly don't dismiss them. On the contrary, I take them very seriously, because of the political impact they can have. They present the strongest risk of electing Hillary Clinton and are by far her biggest political asset. If they get their way, she wins the election with little to no effort.

 

[OrngNugz]

Donald Trump is saying stuff that the average Joe on the street knows to be true, but nobody else will say. This is why he is popular.

Can you please give me some examples of the stuff that he says that the avg Joe on the street knows to be true? I am really curious, seriously, please.

 

[Phil Elliott]

Typical Trump supporter response

Typical assumption by someone who thinks Trump's supporters are morons. While I will vote for anyone running against the fraud that is HRC, Trump is about #4 on my list.

 

[Phil Elliott]

Can you please give me some examples of the stuff that he says that the avg Joe on the street knows to be true? I am really curious, seriously, please.

”If Hillary thinks she can unleash her husband, with his terrible record of women abuse, while playing the women's card on me, she's wrong!”

"The Iran deal is so bad, it's suspicious."

"We [America] don't win anymore."

 

[Phil Elliott]

From Michael Walsh:

"In the movie business, there’s something called the “cheer moment,” when the long-suffering hero finally decks his tormentor with a satisfying right cross. What the Beltway Republicans fail to understand is that their conservative base — which gave them stunning congressional victories in 2010 and 2014 and has nothing to show for it — has been longing for precisely that moment since Reagan crushed Mondale 49-1 in 1984.

The Trumpkins are sick of winning and having nothing to show for it, and their vengeance will be terrible. Maybe the Establishment should stop belittling them and listen instead."

 

[Phil Elliott]

Take for example, a country like Djibouti. They are predominantly pro-Western, and US troops and personnel are stationed there, along with their families. In fact, it's one of the more important overseas US military installations, because of its strategic location. It's a rare safe country (safe enough that our troops can bring their families with them) that's also close to Middle East hot spots. It's also almost entirely Islamic. Do you think that if we tell them that virtually their entire country is unwelcome in the United States that it will improve or worsen our relations with them?

I'd like to know why you are so sure this is such a hot button for this country? Is everyone there just itching to immigrate to the US? Why is immigrating to the US a RIGHT that we dare not take away from people who may or may not be considering such a move? If all Muslims are going to be so offended that they turn into terrorists, or at the very least start hating on the US, just because we say the .001 % of their membership that would like to move to the US, you are not currently allowed to do that while we sort out our own issues, then they are unhinged and that right there seems justification enough for us to act.

 

[OrngNugz]

”If Hillary thinks she can unleash her husband, with his terrible record of women abuse, while playing the women's card on me, she's wrong!”

"The Iran deal is so bad, it's suspicious."

"We [America] don't win anymore."

Those are your facts that everyone knows are true? Those seem to be more opinions than facts to me. I guess the definition of fact has changed from this: something that actually exists; reality; truth. I mean he has a right to his opinion as you do, but dont tell me these are facts. It makes you look like the moron people claim that you are.

 

[Phil Elliott]

I didn't say facts, I said "stuff". You moved the goal posts about like I figured you would. And you lied when you said "I am curious" and "seriously" as if you did not know anything about his statements. So nyah.

 

[OrngNugz]

Donald Trump is saying stuff that the average Joe on the street knows to be true, but nobody else will say. This is why he is popular.

I asked: "Can you please give me some examples of the stuff that he says that the avg Joe on the street knows to be true?"

It seems that you took it as give me some examples of stuff he says. Dont worry Phil, I dont think anyone would be able to defend what your talking about since it doesn't make any sense.
BTW I hate Hillary.

 

[Seattle Husker]

I'd like to know why you are so sure this is such a hot button for this country? Is everyone there just itching to immigrate to the US? Why is immigrating to the US a RIGHT that we dare not take away from people who may or may not be considering such a move? If all Muslims are going to be so offended that they turn into terrorists, or at the very least start hating on the US, just because we say the .001 % of their membership that would like to move to the US, you are not currently allowed to do that while we sort out our own issues, then they are unhinged and that right there seems justification enough for us to act.

Immigration? Trump said stop all Muslims from entering the country temporarily. One could safely assume that "all" would apply to vacationers, students, work related and any number of other valid reasons for a Muslim person to travel to the US. It seems you are narrowing the goalposts with the term "immigrate" when Trump very clearly stated stop all Muslims. Could it be that you are twisting Trumps words to what you want to hear which is a more ration able position?

 

[Seattle Husker]

And you are complaining about my "equivalency" problems? You are saying that to be in favor of spending money to enforce the Constitution means you cannot be against any other spending? Dude, please.

I'm saying frugality only counts for either party when it comes to the other party's pet programs. Most of the hundreds of millions of dollars spent investigating the Clintons, exacerbated by their obfuscation, had no merit and was driven for political means than a desire for "justice".

 

[Phil Elliott]

I asked: "Can you please give me some examples of the stuff that he says that the avg Joe on the street knows to be true?"

And you changed the word to "facts". OK, Mr. Grammar Police, perhaps it would have been better if I said "that the avg. Joe on the street feels is true". You just wanted a platform to call me stupid because I can see why Trump is so popular, and you can't, and I gave you that. Score one for you. Let's just move on.

 

[Phil Elliott]

Could it be that you are twisting Trumps words to what you want tohear which is a more ration able position?

It ain' just me.

The Atlantic: "Donald Trump is now calling for an end to all Muslim immigration into the United States."

Cleveland Plains Dealer: "Donald Trump's Muslim immigration comments are not a bridge too far"

The Washington Post: "...Donald Trump reached an inevitable new nadir in his campaign's fixation on the Islamic State and Muslim immigrants."

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[Mr. Deez]

Typical assumption by someone who thinks Trump's supporters are morons. I am for Ted Cruz.

Some Cruz supporters think like Trump supporters. In fact Cruz appeals to a similar but not identical sentiment.

I'd like to know why you are so sure this is such a hot button for this country? Is everyone there just itching to immigrate to the US? Why is immigrating to the US a RIGHT that we dare not take away from people who may or may not be considering such a move? If all Muslims are going to be so offended that they turn into terrorists, or at the very least start hating on the US, just because we say the .001 % of their membership that would like to move to the US, you are not currently allowed to do that while we sort out our own issues, then they are unhinged and that right there seems justification enough for us to act.

No, they don't necessarily want to move to the US. However, if you tell a nation that cooperates with and is generally friendly with you that its citizens can't move to the US for no reason other than their religious beliefs, they are going to take it as a slight. That's not unhinged. Few nations wouldn't take that as an act of disrespect.

And tell me again how we're going to verify who is and is not a Muslim.

 

[Phil Elliott]

And tell me again how we're going to verify who is and is not a Muslim.

How are we going to ascertain that the Syrian refugees that we are currently bringing in are not terrorists? I bet finding out if someone is a Muslim is easier. Make 'em quote The Bible, or explain the Trinity. ISIS makes people it suspects of being Christians quote the Koran.

You keep confusing me with someone who is a Trump supporter and is writing his policy. I only said I understand why he is popular, and the things he says are not was whackado as you seem to make them. I am sure your opinion of Mr. Trump is that we will just go by skin color.

 

[Phil Elliott]

Some Cruz supporters think like Trump supporters. In fact Cruz appeals to a similar but not identical sentiment.

You mean they believe in the sanctity of the Constitution.

 

[Seattle Husker]

You mean they believe in the sanctity of the Constitution.

Which interpretation?