Trump verdict in
- Thread starter Horn6721
- Start date
No law - nothing of what you described is illegal. Happens everyday. In fact, Trump won a case to have Stormy pay the money back because she broke the contract. By the way, she still hasn’t paid it yet.
You start a civil war when one party tries to take control by prosecuting opposing views. We are a constitutional republic, not a banana republic. If you are not willing to fight and stand up for what your grandfather likely fought for, I don’t know what to say.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
Eyes, the Republican Party's purpose is to protect the leftward descent into totalitarianism. The Democrat Party is the vanguard and the Republican Party then protects the latest change.
But did I describe the basis of the lawsuit? And if it happens every day, are you convinced an appeals court will reverse the verdict of a jury on this? If it was not against the law, are we saying the judge incorrectly described the law to the jury?
First question - 100% incorrect. It was an issue about campaign finance laws, not the underlying activity.
From a Forbes article:
In Trump’s case, he’s not being charged with making the payment itself or reimbursing it, but has only been indicted of falsifying business records, based on the fact that his reimbursement payments to Cohen were allegedly disguised as legal payments.
Even if hush money isn't inherently illegal, some prosecutors have argued the way Daniels was paid—through Cohen, right before the 2016 election—was a campaign finance crime: Cohen pleaded guilty to federal campaign finance violations in 2018, after the Department of Justice alleged the Daniels payment was effectively a donation to Trump's campaign that exceeded the legal limit on political contributions.
The alleged crime that Trump’s been charged with, falsification of business records, is typically classified as a misdemeanor under New York law, but is elevated to a felony when it’s done to facilitate another crime. That’s what prosecutors are alleging here—all 34 counts against Trump are classified as felonies—with Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg arguing that the allegedly falsely labeled payments were done to cover up other crimes, including Cohen’s campaign finance crimes and alleged tax issues, as the payments to Cohen were falsely characterized as income rather than repayments.
Trump attorneys have argued in legal filings that Trump’s reimbursement checks to Cohen were not unlawful, writing Trump “cannot be said to have falsified business records of the Trump Organization by paying his personal attorney using his personal bank accounts.”
Do you believe he did not falsify his business records?
So, to me, it's not circular. He falsified his business (allegedly) records. It could have been just to expense a meal expense that was actually personal (dinner with his wife on their anniversary). In that instance, there is no underlying crime. But, the expense was falsely recorded in the books.
In this instance, if the business expense was falsified (and the only thing that matters is that it was falsified in order to establish the sequence and differentiate it from the underlying crime allegation) AND it was to impact the election (by keeping her mouth shut), then that is the underlying crime.
And back to the anniversary dinner; if he falsified the meal so that he could get a deduction on his tax return, would that be an underlying crime? I say yes, because he would be falsifying his tax return, which is a crime.
What am I missing?
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Every single thing a campaign does is intended to impact the election. That's the nature of campaigns. If this is a felony, then what kind of crimes can the Bidens be charged with for suppressing the laptop story (among many other things)?
Well, that's what I'm also asking. They opened a can of worms. But it does have to be a crime right? Was it a crime to deny Hunter's malfeasance before the election? A lie is not a crime in and of itself if you just say it at a press conference. Or is it because you want to influence the electorate to vote for you? The difference between a lie in a press conference and falsifying business records seems to be obvious to me because a lie is legal. It seems the law in NY required the first act (influencing the election) to be a crime in and of itself (falsifying business documents no matter the reason). Then the second act is another crime; influencing an election while committing a crime to facilitate the influence.
But sure, I'd love to see someone take the basis of this law (influencing an election) and go for a ride around Biden's life to see what we can find.
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Not ignoring you. I don't know the answer to that. I was researching the difference between a state felony and a federal felony. I'm not sure if that's on point with your question. I'm still researching. Someone brought up the fact (?) that the DOJ did not pursue Trump for the apparent felony but the state of New York did. Does that matter? Does that mean anything? If it was a state felony, then it would not necessarily be in the jurisdiction of the DOJ.
Trump is private org. How can you falsify a business record if you only fool yourself???
Thanks man. I'm convinced this was a targeted prosecution. No doubt.
It goes back to this: did the state of New York change their laws retroactively to pursue Trump or was this case (the law about underlying crimes being used to revive and create a felony out of a misdemeanor that was moot due to the statute of limitations) on the books all along?
Tax return? Using those records to secure loans? I don't know. I get what you are saying but there must have been some sort of provable detrimental reliance issue involved.
I pointed out before in a posted tweet that the feds never let the state take lead on a federal matter. The fact that the DOJ allowed NY to do so tells you it is 100% political.
Nope. The prosecution said it impacted taxes but as was pointed out Trump actually had to pay more taxes because of the way he expensed it.
NY passed a law to avoid the statute of limitations to specifically to go after Trump.
So they retroactively criminalized it? Just want to be absolutely sure.
Also, on the state versus federal felony issue. Is there a difference? There's seems to be an animal known as a state felony. I'm trying to figure out if that exists in NY, meaning it was not uncommon for them to pursue it.
No difference in the underlying charge but different in who prosecutes it.
I think this bill ultimately passed:
Most recently, the Senate passed the No Citizen is Above the Law Act – sponsored by Senate Deputy Majority Leader Michael Gianaris – a bill meant to remove the statute of limitations for criminal and civil prosecutions for people who served as president of the United States. “Any president who breaks the law should be held accountable without regard to the time they spend in office,” Gianaris said in a statementlast month. “We must close the loophole that allows presidents to escape culpability by exploiting statutes of limitations due to presidential immunity.”
Oh, I'm happy to fight. I'm just not willing to fight for a guy whose junk has that poor of judgment. Sorry, but his cock isn't my problem.
Two things can be true at once. Democrats are treating him unfairly, and he has hideous judgment that we shouldn't tolerate as a party.
If our values are sound, then we can survive the failures of one individual and substitute another. They just need to be committed to the job and able to intellectually articulate the message.
i think the problem is one of absolute frustration with the guy in general. The Republicans should be CRUSHING the Liberals because they are so wracked by extremists. But Trump's character has been successfully exploited to a degree that it repels many voters; especially white Suburban women who want to be "good." It kills the party. And yes, it happened years ago, but the Dems have kept it alive.
by
You are right. I wonder if those same people are so perfect? And have lived such perfect lives?He was a larger than life successful personwho was adored by media for over35 years. He said arrogant stuff and for sure did stupid stuff then
BUT as POTUS what he did for our country both here and in the world should count for more. That it doesn't for some shows a lack of concern for our country. Black people and Hispanics who benefitted greatly seem to recognize real actions mean more than words / questionable acts long ago.
You are right. I wonder if those same people are so perfect? And have lived such perfect lives?He was a larger than life successful personwho was adored by media for over35 years. He said arrogant stuff and for sure did stupid stuff then
BUT as POTUS what he did for our country both here and in the world should count for more. That it doesn't for some shows a lack of concern for our country. Black people and Hispanics who benefitted greatly seem to recognize real actions mean more than words / questionable acts long ago.
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