Trump verdict in

I've been way too busy to closely follow the trial. I've covered dozens of criminal trials as a reporter/editor, served on criminal trial jurys and a grand jury. I developed an appreciation for the diligence and honor with which jurors approached their jobs. Are New Yorkers so different than Texans? Is it so hard to believe Donald Trump really violated laws or is the argument he, like Ken Paxton, is so great he should get away with it?
 
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Crockett said:
I've been way to busy to follow the trial. I've covered dozens of criminal trials as a reporter/editor, served on criminal trial jurys and a grand jury. I developed an appreciation for the diligence and honor with which jurors approached their jobs. Are New Yorkers so different than Texans? Is it so hard to believe Donald Trump really violated laws or is the argument he, like Ken Paxton, is so great he should get away with it?
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The issue is the biased judge who didn’t let Trump’s defense to call certain expert witnesses, or curtailed the testimony of those he did allow, or allowed salacious testimony for the prosecution that wasn’t pertinent to the case, or gave judicially incorrect jury instructions. Not to mention that the trial should have never happened in the first place.
 
Crockett said:
I've been way to busy to follow the trial. I've covered dozens of criminal trials as a reporter/editor, served on criminal trial jurys and a grand jury. I developed an appreciation for the diligence and honor with which jurors approached their jobs. Are New Yorkers so different than Texans? Is it so hard to believe Donald Trump really violated laws or is the argument he, like Ken Paxton, is so great he should get away with it?
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Maybe on regular cases, jurors in NYC would be serious and try hard to overcome their probably strong biases, but this case was literally the most political topic of any jury trial in history—right, by definition? So it is more comparable to the OJ trial where the fame of the defendant and the sociopolitical issues involved overwhelm everything else, and we cannot at all assume the jurors just “found the facts” and the judge “applied the law.”
 
Crockett said:
I've been way to busy to follow the trial. I've covered dozens of criminal trials as a reporter/editor, served on criminal trial jurys and a grand jury. I developed an appreciation for the diligence and honor with which jurors approached their jobs. Are New Yorkers so different than Texans? Is it so hard to believe Donald Trump really violated laws or is the argument he, like Ken Paxton, is so great he should get away with it?
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Crockett,

We met at Tolbert's and while I know we are on opposite sides of the political aisle; I appreciate your viewpoint.

However (there's always a however) I will disagree here on a few points.

1. I have been called to jury duty but never served on a jury. I might have looked too Republican in a suit. The last time I was called was a child molestation case. We, the prospective jurors were on break and discussed what we knew. This will happen, despite instructions from the judge. While I did not take a poll, not one juror I talked to was for the defendant. I also did not see any juror trying to sway people one way or the other.

2. Jurors are human beings with their own thoughts and prejudices. It does not matter if it is Texas or New York.

3. What is the crime here? Hush money is not illegal.

I have a few questions:

If Trump was not running for President, would he be on trial?

Would anyone care about Stormy Daniels or Michael Cohen?

Does anyone think this verdict will stand up to appellate review?
 
Well... did Cohen pay her? Was he directed by Trump to do it? Did Trump deduct this expense on his business and tax records/returns? Is the intent to keep her quiet in time for the election breaking the law?

I'm just asking.
 
utahorn: I hear where you are coming from, but I think jurors can hate the crime and still be fair. I served on a jury trial in a child rape case and none of us had any sympathy for someone sexully abusing a child. However the jurors made sure the prosecution proved guilt. When it came to sentencing we handed down the longest allowable prison sentence. We also assessed the maximum fine. I argued against the fine. I thought it would serve no societal good for a destitute, way- past -retirement-age man rehabilitated enough to get past the parole board to face overwhelming financial budens upon release. But it was 11-1 and I persuaded no one during a one-hour hold out. The other jurors thought the crime so horrific that the punishment should be as severe as possible.
 
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Crockett said:
I've been way too busy to closely follow the trial. I've covered dozens of criminal trials as a reporter/editor, served on criminal trial jurys and a grand jury. I developed an appreciation for the diligence and honor with which jurors approached their jobs. Are New Yorkers so different than Texans? Is it so hard to believe Donald Trump really violated laws or is the argument he, like Ken Paxton, is so great he should get away with it?
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It's not hard to believe he violated the law, but it's a flimsy misdemeanor that nobody would care about. A lot of legal gymnastics had to be performed to get it to a felony. (Remember that the DoJ had declined to charge the supposedly underlying campaign finance allegation. It wasn't because they didn't want to go after Trump.)

I, for one, don't believe New Yorkers are different from Texans. I think that if you charged Joe Biden in Donley County, Texas (where Biden got about the same percentage of the vote that Trump got in New York County), found the most partisan Republican trial judge in the state, and gave every discretionary call (and even some that might not be so discretionary) to the prosecution, the jury would likely do the same thing to Biden. The big difference is that nobody in the national media or Democratic Party would be so deferential to the process. They'd be saying basically what the Trump people are saying.

But don't blame me. I was willing to overlook the other guy eating pudding with his fingers to avoid taking a chance on the more liberal guy who paid off a porn actress and who's facing felony charges in hostile venues. But the rest of the party didn't mind those risks. In fact, they kinda liked them and couldn't get past the pudding thing. I'll admit that it looked gross, but Desantis can and presumably did wash his hands. Much harder to wash off what happens in a NY state prison.
 
Crockett said:
utahorn: I hear where you are coming from, but I think jurors can hate the crime and still be fair. I served on a jury trial in a child rape case and none of us had any sympathy for someone sexully abusing a child. However the jurors made sure the prosecution proved guilt. When it came to sentencing we handed down the longest allowable prison sentence. We also assessed the maximum fine. I argued against the fine. I thought it would serve no societal good for a destitute, way- past -retirement-age man rehabilitated enough to get past the parole board to face overwhelming financial budens upon release. But it was 11-1 and I persuaded no one during a one-hour hold out. The other jurors thought the crime so horrific that the punishment should be as severe as possible.
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I'm sure you'd make a fine juror in any case, but surely you can see that there's a political angle in the Trump trial that wasn't present in the rape trial. Obviously it makes a difference.
 
Crockett said:
utahorn: I hear where you are coming from, but I think jurors can hate the crime and still be fair. I served on a jury trial in a child rape case and none of us had any sympathy for someone sexully abusing a child. However the jurors made sure the prosecution proved guilt. When it came to sentencing we handed down the longest allowable prison sentence. We also assessed the maximum fine. I argued against the fine. I thought it would serve no societal good for a destitute, way- past -retirement-age man rehabilitated enough to get past the parole board to face overwhelming financial budens upon release. But it was 11-1 and I persuaded no one during a one-hour hold out. The other jurors thought the crime so horrific that the punishment should be as severe as possible.
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What was the crime?
 
bystander said:
Well... did Cohen pay her? Was he directed by Trump to do it? Did Trump deduct this expense on his business and tax records/returns? Is the intent to keep her quiet in time for the election breaking the law?

I'm just asking.
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This is highly debatable. The judge wouldn’t let Trump’s expert witness to testify on this matter. Also, the Trump campaign agreed to a misdemeanor charge related to this activity. Regardless, this was not the felony charged against Trump. The felony at the Trump trial was that this was done to cover up an underlying crime. No one knows what is the other crime, and further the law used here applies to accounting fraud of investors, not campaigns.
 
bystander said:
Well... did Cohen pay her? Was he directed by Trump to do it? Did Trump deduct this expense on his business and tax records/returns? Is the intent to keep her quiet in time for the election breaking the law?

I'm just asking.
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By, Jonathan Turley has written extensively about the trial. You can look up his articles on the matter.
 
bystander said:
Well... did Cohen pay her? Was he directed by Trump to do it? Did Trump deduct this expense on his business and tax records/returns? Is the intent to keep her quiet in time for the election breaking the law?

I'm just asking.
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Trump wasn’t indicted on none of the above activities.
 
bystander said:
Well... did Cohen pay her? Was he directed by Trump to do it? Did Trump deduct this expense on his business and tax records/returns? Is the intent to keep her quiet in time for the election breaking the law?

I'm just asking.
Click to expand...
 
From Forbes:

upload_2024-5-31_8-47-53.png
 
Some possibilities:

- free while appeals process goes through
- house arrest in NY (Trump Tower)
- probation
- special "prison" basically run by the Secret Service

Any house arrest/prison where he is not free to move about the US and campaign might be challenged on that basis.
 
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