Trayvon Martin story

H

hornpharmd

5,000+ Posts
blogs.canada.com/2012/03/23/trayvon-martin-the-story-of-the-outrage/

I don't see how they haven't charged Zimmerman yet. Especially considering the outrage that is boiling over this. Zimmerman clearly leaves his house to follow this 14 year old unarmed kid. He clearly ignores the officer on the phone who tells him not to follow him.

I am sure posters on these boards will want to discuss the law itself and how he was potentially defending himself under that law. However, I do not see how you can be viewed as a victim when you follow an unarmed teenager and at a later point shoot that teenager to death. Zimmerman wasn't standing his ground, he was following.

At the end of the Utube clip it links to other 911 calls. In one you can clearly hear Trayvon screaming for help. I makes my skin crawl thinking of that poor kid, scared in the night, being hunted down by an armed man. If that were my son I would start following Zimmerman until I felt threatened.

The only good that can come from this case now is eventual criminal justice on Zimmerman, and possible clarification of this law to help prevent future incidents like this.
 
the outcome of this matter lies entirely in the identification of the person screaming for help in the 911 tapes. If its treyvon, then Zimmerman is a murderer and deserves the chair. If its zimmerman, despite poor judgement in following the teen, he has the right to defend himself from a beating, especially since it seems like he was trying to extricate himself from the situation. It should be easy to tell by the physical condition of the combatants

If the person yelling was zimmerman than this is a teachable moment for all Americans. If you decide to beat on someone, you could die. If he felt threatened or if Zimmerman grabbed him than enough force needed to get away would be warranted. NO ONE has to endure a pummeling under any circumstances. This said, the tape I heard sounds like a black kid yelling for help. We'll know soon enough

If the situation wasn't sad enough, the shameless politicization of this mess by the left has set a new watermark for sleeze. Who ever that heartless ***** was on NBC who blamed rush, hanity and "republicans" should have been run off the show.
 
BTW that "article" reads like satchel or roger35 wrote it. I heard the 911 tapes and zimmerman never says "suspicious black people" had been seen in the neighborhood. Just "suspicious people".

Weird, the tone of these discussions seem to be that the evidence doesnt matter (most of which we don know yet). The only thing that matters is how outraged blacks and liberals are.
 
So a person murders an innocent victim, and needs to go to prison. I agree, but I fail to see why the president needs to get involved. I guess it is because the police are evil or slow to collect evidence.
 
I think the president wanted to take advantage of the "teachable moment" parents, preachers and teachers have in my experience been opportuniistic in taking advantage of. He said a few sentences in response to a reporter's question. The Link
I don't know how anybody could take issue with anything he said unless of course they are the ones who take issue with everything he says.

I could honestly imagine Bush or Reagan saying the same thing, except the part about the kid looking like he coulda been their son.
 
this from Hook
"If the situation wasn't sad enough, the shameless politicization of this mess by the left has set a new watermark for sleeze. "
Exactly sums it up. Isn''t this being investigated?
By local and now the feds, let the investigation play out.

If this zimmerman killed without provocation he should be punished to the fullest extent he can be. No matter what the facts end up showing this really is a sad tragic case.
BUT BUT it isn't the only or even the saddest killing lately
It is however one that is being used for political purposes.
If Bo is so so sadly touched by this that he felt compelled to speak from his bully pulpit Why wasn't BO as compelled to seak out against an innocent 6 y o black child killed in his home cite AND a 10 mon old baby wounded?

and BTW there was a19 y o black kid killed on the streets of Chicago last week. Where is the outrage over that killing?
The 6 y o, the 10 mon old, the 19 y o all loked like what children of BO would look like.

Anyone who thinks this faux outrage over ( yes a truly senseless killing but aren't they all?) this single incident is anything but political is not being truthful.

if there isn't a story / protest nationionwide about those innocent black kids being killed in Chicago then there shouldn't be a nationwide story on this one.
 
Hooklahoma, Zimmerman's attorney said his client had a broken nose and grass stains on his back. I guess if we accept the "teachable moment" the way you see it when I'm taking a late night walk and someone follows me in an SUV, gets out to confront and subdue me, I meekly say "Do with me as you will." Or maybe I should fight for my life/liberty, but try not to hurt the guy or make him fearful? Do we factor in Trayvon Martin's fears?. After all, whatever good intetions Zimmerman may have harbored, he looks damned scary from the pictures I saw and sounded very angry in communications with police. And he did end up killing the kiid.
 
Horn6721, I don't think there is much controversy on gang violence and the murdering of innocent children. You know somebody who favors it? There is an interesting public policy question on whether armed vigilantes (guy may have been a Neighborhood Watch captain but apparantly whatever NW training he received didn't take) can confront someone "suspicious" and after starting a violent confrontation kill the "suspcious" person sans legal consequences. Hooklahoma, who seems reasonable enough to me, and I disagree on what public policy should be in such circumstance. The nation should take this opportunity to study and understand what "stand your ground" means and use that understanding to formulate laws that work better to potect the innocent and clear up ambiguity for law enforcement on how to investigate and prosecute "self defense" homicides. And maybe we all should know the kid in the hoodie has parents who love him and is deserving of respect and protection, just like everyone else.
 
I agree that the law should be followed and we can only speculate as to the facts. I'm not sure anyone, even Zimmerman, has a clear idea of how everything went down. I never much liked Al Sharpton, but I think he was right to call public attention to this situation. Is the lesson from this that Trayvon Martin went too far in his beat down or not far enough? I've always been coached that you don't stop fighting until you take away the other combatants ability to harm you. Obviously, Martin stopped too soon by that standard.
 
An unarmed "good" kid was killed and his killer walked without a thorough interogation and drug tests. By all accounts local law enforcement did a bad job, whether through incompetence or favoritism. Al Sharpton wouldn't be rich or famous if he let opportunities like this slip by. By the way am guessing nodbody would have tried to pick up the pieces and do a thorough investigation without all the public attention.
 
In other news, nobody is talking about Jon Corzine and the recent revelations with that story this week. Fortuitous timing on the emergence of this unfortunate and inflammatory Florida murder.
 
Crockett?
is the investigation closed?
No iy is not
No one, not a single person thinks this zimmeramn should get away with it if he killed without provocation and at the very least if the investigations show it was mot murder or a homicide he should have his CCL and gun taken away. The investigations done by the state and the feds should give more facts.

What is despicable to many is to pretend this case alone is so horrible that it deserves national media and even BO using the POTUS bully pulpit.
People like BO Sharpton and Jackson are race bating as hard as they can and clearly it is working

OK so You say black on black murders are not as newsworthy evn when a 6 y ol is killed and a 10 mont h old baby is wounded. even when these happened in Jackson and Bo's home town. Apparently this isn't nationally newsworthy.

consider for a second what that lack of concern for those murders , black children killed by blacks, reveals juxtaposed against this case.

As everyone has said when the facts come out from the investigations justice will be served.
How many blacks have been killed by blacks since Feb 26? Are their lives less worthy of BO's attention?

He can't score political points with them so he apparently ignores them.
 
Chock one up for the MSM, they have you all believing we are still in the 60's and Zimmerman a hispanic jew is head of the local chapter of the KKK or skinheads. It's an election year we need some black solidarity against whitey and more white guilt, you people here amuse me and I need a good laugh from time to time, so long for now and don't forget to bring up the we are all dead now comment.
 
The killing has political implications from top to bottom. There is no way around that.

Race is implicated in this. It is America, for ****'s sake. Race matters profoundly in America. If you don't like that, go back to sleep.

In a country where blackness has been historically associated with violence, an inability to be civically involved, animalism, even evil, laws that allow people who are 'afraid' for their safety to 'stand their ground' and kill people they are afraid of are of special interest to the black community. I mean, if you are following someone because they are suspicious you are demonstrating a lack of trust, a perception that the person is the other. The situation is already front-loaded with the exculpatory mindset before the person engages the other. That is the case even if the interloper only overcomes that 'ill ease' and engages the suspected other because the interloper is carrying a rod. That is a scary law by my lights and as a person whose appearance will lead others to suspect me regardless of my behavior I don't expect that law to protect my well-being at all.

It goes without saying that 'stand your ground' can also apply to blacks killing whites. I linked such a case in the other thread. The fact that it can go 'both ways' doesn't mean the impact of the law is not likely to be disparate in this direction or that or that it is good law on its face. The law was born of politics and it will continue to be political in places where the involved killings speak to broader issues of power between this or that group.

Race matters and has effect is myriad ways. We may all be Americans but America doesn't work the same way for everyone, and race has always been one factor that cuts through and creates or foments fissures in the national shell. It rains on some of us more than on others, depending on how you define us, and such has been historically a matter of design.

Law enforcement generally exists to maintain equilibrium, to maintain order, to maintain the status quo. If you want change, you don't call the cops. If you are the subaltern the police are, practically by definition, charged with making you work within the system that oppresses you. You are the target. Black people are not going to see this as a situation unconnected to history or politics or race. We live in different worlds if you think that this has racial or political implications ONLY because liberals and race-baiting showboats want it to.
 
Horn6721 -- I'm sorry, I though the Sanford polcie had concluded their investigation with a decsion not to file charges or present to a grand jury. I was under the impression Florida state government (led by Republicans by the way) stepped in because of the political heat. If everyone was trying to do the right thing before Al Sharpton showed up, please let me in on it.
 
I may be mistaken and forgotten details but didn't King resist arrest, assault an officer and endure a couple of taserings before the unfortunate beating occurred? Didn't he lead them on a bit of a car chase endangering the public?

I am not saying there was not racism involved but if any of the above happened, and for some reason I remember them having happened (could be wrong, easily) then I can see where the Cops may have been worked up.

Not that he deserved to beaten to a pulp but I can see how that adrenaline rush, that difficult of an arrest and endangering the public could get them amped up.
 
I just read the report and yes, he was speeding over 110 mph. He endured two tasings and take down moves. He grabbed his buttocks and shook them at the cops and waved at the helicopter. he recently got out of prison so the cop was correct about his being "prison stacked" but wrong about him being dusted on pcp. They thought that due to his erratic and taunting actions.

I firmly believe that if I got pulled over for speeding like that and acted that way that I would get a beat down by the cops. I don't think I would endure a tasing, however. I think i would deserve a beat down for being a jackass and would never act that way.
 
btw, the above is only for the Rodney King instance. I don't mean to imply that the young man in Florida led the police on a chase or anything like that. He didn't.

But it is tiring to have people completely dismiss what happened before Rodney Kings incident which was unfortunate. It is much more graphic when the tidbit we all know is all we are familiar with.
 
Loop, nobody "completely dismissed" the events leading up to the Rodney King incident. As I understand, he's had numerous run-ins with police both before and since.

The point of my post was the same as buckhorn's (though less eloquently stated): That certain events -- such as a white vigilante pursuing and eventually killing a 14-year old black boy -- ARE inherently racial topics.
 
I read more into what you wrote than I should have, my bad.

I lived on the East Coast when the Rodney King thing went down and believe me, your point of view was not commonly shared or discussed. And yes, he has been in trouble since.

I am waiting for more facts to come out and I have found it interesting that many don't know the ethnicity of Zimmerman yet have seeming strong opinions about it. I am not talking about this site or online but people I have come across and conversations overheard.

So many are just buying into the hype machine and not pausing for things to develop. If the worst case scenario occurs then I hope strong justice is served to all involved.
 
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