The Liar-in-Chief strikes again

[Crockett]

The exchange of threats and slogans does get tiresome. Trump is the kind of man who inspired the phrase "fart in a hot skillet." Maybe if he could borrow talking points and wording from someone with expertise, like Rep. Will Hurd, he could not only save face, but accomplish something. Phrases like "smart wall" and comprehensive reform make sense.

 

[Seattle Husker]

What else should he ask for? More money to audit and punish employers?

Yes! If he really cared about illegal immigration rather than a symbol that's exactly what he'd do.

Do you want to know why the left is up in arms? I don't believe it's about "votes" as the average left leaning voter could care less about the Democratic "party". It's the fact that Trump has vilified millions of hard working immigrants and continues to paint them with a brush so broad that the xenophobe moniker fits. He ignores the reality that illegal immigrants commit crime at a lower rate than natural born Americans. He and his supporters ignore the fact that these immigrants aren't stealing well paying jobs but rather the jobs that the supporters themselves wouldn't work. It's an "other" problem. I fully believe that in many cases some project their own problems and attribute it to "them". Are there likely significant problems for those that live on the border in terms of trespassing, garbage and general property degradation? Certainly there is. Not sure a wall is going to fix that problem though.

As an aside, I do support barriers in densely populated areas.

 

[nashhorn]

So put the barriers in densely populated areas. Wow, a compromise!!!

 

[Musburger1]

The stated reason for tonight’s talk is to address the humanitarian crises at the border. Talk about hypocrisy. We are concerned about the poor, suffering women and children and need to do something to ease their pain. Meanwhile, we continue to assist the Saudis in their genocidal assault on hundreds of thousands of Yemenis cutting off their access to food and medicine and supplying them with bombs and training to unleash on civilians.

 

[iatrogenic]

The stated reason for tonight’s talk is to address the humanitarian crises at the border. Talk about hypocrisy. We are concerned about the poor, suffering women and children and need to do something to ease their pain. Meanwhile, we continue to assist the Saudis in their genocidal assault on hundreds of thousands of Yemenis cutting off their access to food and medicine and supplying them with bombs and training to unleash on civilians.

Its called multi-tasking.

 

[Musburger1]

This is how you complete a security perimeter in an efficient, cost-effective manner.

While certain politicians are still having difficulties getting their walls built, Russia has announced it had finished a border barrier between Ukraine and Crimea. Construction took just over a year and less than $3 million.

Bids for building the two-meter tall, 60-kilometer long fence separating the peninsula from Ukraine opened in September 2017. The Federal Security Service (FSB) announced the project’s completion on Thursday. The contract was estimated at approximately 200 million rubles, or $2.87 million at current exchange rates.

The fence is also reportedly equipped with high-technology surveillance devices, from vibration sensors to night vision cameras.

Russia’s ability to build a fence so quickly and at a fairly low cost has already prompted some commentary about US President Donald Trump and his inability to even start construction of his wall on the border with Mexico.

Among other remarks was the suggestion by one self-described American Russophile that Russia should be given the contract to build Trump’s wall. If the price of the Crimea fence were extrapolated for the length of the southern US border, that could be done for about $150 million, he said.​

 

[iatrogenic]

This is how you complete a security perimeter in an efficient, cost-effective manner.

While certain politicians are still having difficulties getting their walls built, Russia has announced it had finished a border barrier between Ukraine and Crimea. Construction took just over a year and less than $3 million.

Bids for building the two-meter tall, 60-kilometer long fence separating the peninsula from Ukraine opened in September 2017. The Federal Security Service (FSB) announced the project’s completion on Thursday. The contract was estimated at approximately 200 million rubles, or $2.87 million at current exchange rates.

The fence is also reportedly equipped with high-technology surveillance devices, from vibration sensors to night vision cameras.

Russia’s ability to build a fence so quickly and at a fairly low cost has already prompted some commentary about US President Donald Trump and his inability to even start construction of his wall on the border with Mexico.

Among other remarks was the suggestion by one self-described American Russophile that Russia should be given the contract to build Trump’s wall. If the price of the Crimea fence were extrapolated for the length of the southern US border, that could be done for about $150 million, he said.​

In other news, nobody has ever tried to get into Russia, so their fence is truly a waste of money.

 

[bystander]

As an aside, I do support barriers in densely populated areas.

What do you mean by barriers in densely populated areas?

 

[Seattle Husker]

What do you mean by barriers in densely populated areas?

Fences and even walls.

 

[HTownBevo]

Tariffs aren't working out so good.

You cant fix stupid, ignorant or uninformed.

Do you have any idea of what is going on in China or their economy?

 

[bystander]

Fences and even walls.

Good morning.

Sorry, if I'm slow on the uptake. Can you be a good sport and tell me a little more?

 

[bystander]

Here are some of the basics as I see it:

It is the job of the President of the United States to enforce our federal laws.

When someone sneaks into the US they are breaking two laws: immigration and trespassing. If they take anything that is not their's then they are stealing.

If the government wishes to use eminent domain to provide an entrance to the US they already have at multiple entry points in the US.

If the types of business who offer work that most American's won't do are in need of help then they can make their presence known at these points of entry. I'm not hearing that we are having a crisis in labor supply. Maybe I missed that. All yard work done in typical suburban neighborhoods can be done by the children that live in that neighborhood. That's what we did when I was in high school. My Dad's friends hired me.

More immigration from Mexico actually creates competition for the existing workers doing the work most American's won't do. It will drive wages down.

What is the progressive cultural vision for the US: Feminist, green, educated, secular with strong rights for abortion, LBGT and women. Is that what we are getting from the men from Mexico? It's just a question.

It is argued that poverty causes crime. Why encourage more people to enter our country who will most likely live below the poverty line their entire lives along with their children?

What burden do existing American taxpayers have to pay ONE DIME to anyone who enters illegally?

 

[OUBubba]

You cant fix stupid, ignorant or uninformed.

Do you have any idea of what is going on in China or their economy?

Tell that to the soybean farmers.

 

[BrntOrngStmpeDe]

Here are some of the basics as I see it:

It is the job of the President of the United States to enforce our federal laws.

When someone sneaks into the US they are breaking two laws: immigration and trespassing. If they take anything that is not their's then they are stealing.

If the government wishes to use eminent domain to provide an entrance to the US they already have at multiple entry points in the US.

If the types of business who offer work that most American's won't do are in need of help then they can make their presence known at these points of entry. I'm not hearing that we are having a crisis in labor supply. Maybe I missed that. All yard work done in typical suburban neighborhoods can be done by the children that live in that neighborhood. That's what we did when I was in high school. My Dad's friends hired me.

More immigration from Mexico actually creates competition for the existing workers doing the work most American's won't do. It will drive wages down.

What is the progressive cultural vision for the US: Feminist, green, educated, secular with strong rights for abortion, LBGT and women. Is that what we are getting from the men from Mexico? It's just a question.

It is argued that poverty causes crime. Why encourage more people to enter our country who will most likely live below the poverty line their entire lives along with their children?

What burden do existing American taxpayers have to pay ONE DIME to anyone who enters illegally?

This.

How can anyone argue that we need these people as workers when every day we are bombarded with the reality that technology is already displacing hundreds of workers everyday. If the number of required workers is already decreasing due to technology then why on earth would you bring in additional labor?

Sure, there is the occasional success story of a migrant child that does great in school and rises up to be a success in college and afterwards...BUT the FAR greater numbers have a reality that is soaked in mediocrity, poverty and living off the government teat.

Most of these migrants, legal and illegal, that can't speak English come here and get low wage jobs, have kids that perform very poorly in school and consequently get low wage jobs and then become citizens that demand more government teat.

Immigration is a recipe for a future economic disaster. We are inviting in more people that won't be able to compete in the future marketplace and will require more government assistance.

 

[BrntOrngStmpeDe]

IMO the GOP is missing their golden opportunity to turn the tables on the Dems. Trump's "I own this shutdown" was stupid. BUT Pelosi's "a wall is immoral" was just as stupid. If the GOP has any sense they would take that comment and ram it down the Dems throats.

"The Dems have said securing our border is IMMORAL. That is tantamount to saying the Dems want open borders."

The Dems could have argued the wall was not needed. They could have argued it was too expensive. or many other things.

But to argue that a wall is IMMORAL, says that defending your border is immoral. That is shorthand for open borders.

 

[bystander]

This is a very interesting point of view about immigration. It is interesting because the opinion comes from one of the most aggressive environmentalists in the history of the movement.

https://www.seashepherd.org.au/news...the-nation-on-population-and-immigration.html

 

[bystander]

I believe the immorality argument (political tool) is rooted in political correctness such as "Believe the woman." It is an attempt to destroy any dissent. You are to believe the woman without question even in the absence of proof. You are to believe the immigrant is running for their life without question even in the absence of proof. From there you can infer that the wall will ensure the death of any immigrant who fails to enter by legal means (at normal ports of entry to be vetted). That is the way I see the political argument of immorality being used.

 

[ShAArk92]

Illegal migration is down and now it's a National Emergency? Really?

like forces on a stock price ... right?

when that price exceeds the bollinger bands, the tendency is for it to return to being inside that standard deviation ...

illegal immigration was so abundant during the Obama years (seeding children in 2014 to name one) ...

Just the law of averages says the rate HAD to decrease ... but it wasn't just the law of averages, it was Trump's campaign which promised to make illegal immigration a less inviting option. And it has because he has changed the directives to enforce the law in CBP and ICE. he's pursuing the sanctuary city law, which still blows my mind it actually exists.

Still much work to be done (hello wall/sanctuary city law). So yes, the decrease is improvement, but we STILL have far too much of it. Noting perfection is unattainable, it needs to captured to the point the expense to the country imposed by illegal immigration can't pay for the wall anymore.

 

[ShAArk92]

I do wonder if he'll explain why the government is shutdown over a wall that the US isn't supposed to be paying for.

here's that statement again.

Despite being a Cruz supporter (not a Trump supporter) during the primary when "mexico will pay for the wall" ... I never ONCE understood that to mean a check from Mexico City was going to cover the construction/maintenance costs. yes, words mean things and The Don is the master of manipulation. Ya gotta know when he's literal and when he's being Don.

Reducing the cost of illegal immigration pays for the structure and its maintenance ... MANY times over. That illegals have been getting this support facilitating their being able to send money back to Mexico ... means Mexico losing that money .... means Mexico "pays" by virtue of lost revenue.

I figured a guy as sophisticated as yourself would have savvied that?

 

[ShAArk92]

Rand Paul, a hero of

we all know "even a broken clock is right twice/day" an accurate clock needs to be reset every now and then to maintain accuracy. Rand is wrong on this one. Our border problem reached the point of needing a barrier a long time ago.

 

[BrntOrngStmpeDe]

like forces on a stock price ... right?

when that price exceeds the bollinger bands, the tendency is for it to return to being inside that standard deviation ...

illegal immigration was so abundant during the Obama years (seeding children in 2014 to name one) ...

Just the law of averages says the rate HAD to decrease ... but it wasn't just the law of averages, it was Trump's campaign which promised to make illegal immigration a less inviting option. And it has because he has changed the directives to enforce the law in CBP and ICE. he's pursuing the sanctuary city law, which still blows my mind it actually exists.

Still much work to be done (hello wall/sanctuary city law). So yes, the decrease is improvement, but we STILL have far too much of it. Noting perfection is unattainable, it needs to captured to the point the expense to the country imposed by illegal immigration can't pay for the wall anymore.

and you can reasonably conclude that the new wave of children is directly tied to the DACA program that gave a special status to children. Obama's unconstitutional overreach of changing our immigration law is a direct reason we are now seeing a huge increase in children attempting to gain entry.

Signals matter. As poorly as Trump has played the immigration issue legislatively, he at least got this part right. It's important that the US send signals that we don't want or need any future immigration.

 

[Clean]

According to this Fox News piece; "A Morning Consult/POLITICO poll released Tuesday found that 42 percent of respondents agree with Trump that illegal immigration is a crisis, while an additional 37 percent see it as a problem, with just 12 percent seeing nothing amiss at the border."

The article goes on to say (and I agree) that the real problem is not that Pelosi and Schumer don't see the problem, they do. They even voted to spend billions to fix it when Obama was President. The real problem is they're hung up on the "2016 election is invalid" thing. Whether they consider it invalid because of Russian collusion (doubtful) or Hill won the most popular votes and the electoral college is evil, who knows, but they refuse to give this President any kind of victory, even if it bites them in the *** too.

So, when you get right down to it, who is the biggest liar, Trump or the Dems?

Michael Goodwin: Refusal to budge on border wall shows Dems still hung up on 2016

 

[Garmel]

The changed Democrats attitudes are insane, and yes I do realize that if the Dems were in power the Repubs might likely be just as absurd. Sick, sick, sick.

Yep. Some of the anti-Obama crowd went really crazy.

 

[BrntOrngStmpeDe]

And this shutdown fight is highlighting Trumps biggest flaw...His regular pissing on the people that are most likely to be in his corner is catching up with him. It would be very helpful at this stage to have many other GOP representatives out there highlighting Pelosi and Schumer's hypocrisy and "immoral" gaffe, but Trumps style has alienated too many and his lack of message discipline has made it very difficult for any GOP rep to go out on a limb to back his play.

 

[LongestHorn]

According to this Fox News piece; "A Morning Consult/POLITICO poll released Tuesday found that 42 percent of respondents agree with Trump that illegal immigration is a crisis, while an additional 37 percent see it as a problem, with just 12 percent seeing nothing amiss at the border."

The article goes on to say (and I agree) that the real problem is not that Pelosi and Schumer don't see the problem, they do. They even voted to spend billions to fix it when Obama was President. The real problem is they're hung up on the "2016 election is invalid" thing. Whether they consider it invalid because of Russian collusion (doubtful) or Hill won the most popular votes and the electoral college is evil, who knows, but they refuse to give this President any kind of victory, even if it bites them in the *** too.

So, when you get right down to it, who is the biggest liar, Trump or the Dems?

Michael Goodwin: Refusal to budge on border wall shows Dems still hung up on 2016

Take a full look at the poll Fox News is quoting.

the share of voters who say Trump is mostly to blame (47 percent) has increased, up 4 percentage points since Morning Consult asked in a Dec. 21-23 poll, while the share who said Democrats were to blame (33 percent) stayed within the polls’ 2-point margins of error.

The gridlock in Washington also may have dimmed voters’ optimism about the country writ large. According to Morning Consult tracking, just 37 percent of voters said the country is going in the right direction — the lowest share since late March.

 

[OUBubba]

I'm not agin border security. A contiguous wall from Matamoros to TJ is silly. There are parts of the border that require walls. There are parts that do not. I trust Will Hurd's point of view.

Until we're ready to penalize people employing illegals we're going to have a problem. Cut off the demand for undocumented workers and the supply will find their way out. Migration from Mexico is way down as it is. Heck, the wall may stop that trend by making it difficult to get out.

 

[iatrogenic]

Instead of asking employers to do the government's job, let's start with cutting off free hospital visits for illegals, and citizenship for babies born to illegals.

 

[BrntOrngStmpeDe]

Instead of asking employers to do the government's job, let's start with cutting off free hospital visits for illegals, and citizenship for babies born to illegals.

Instead of asking employers to do governments job lets hire 10,000 IRS agents to go door to door asking people to fill out I-9's also. let's also get the government to go to peoples houses to make sure pilots are certified to fly, and truckers are certified to drive, and CPAs are certified to count, etc.

The time of hiring is a natural point to collect and confirm this information. The HR folks at companies already have a vetting system in place to make sure the applicants have the necessary certifications/clearances/degrees/sobriety to employ them. Verifying citizenship is a very, very low bar to clear.

 

[iatrogenic]

How about requiring the government to do its job at the border so employers don't have to perform the "natural" function of cleaning up after government failure?

 

[Garmel]

I trust Will Hurd's point of view.

What makes his POV more important than the people who work on the border? 89% of the border patrol want a wall. They work the border and they have a better understanding of what's going on down there than what you, SH, and the other libs do. Your side has zero data to show that this won't work. All you have is feelings. Our side has plenty of data (and successful walls around the world) that show it will work.