ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
This is a crap response. You made a very clear passive-aggressive point that "brown people" fall under the heading of "thugs" to Trump supporters. Own it.
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This is a crap response. You made a very clear passive-aggressive point that "brown people" fall under the heading of "thugs" to Trump supporters. Own it.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
They are using Orwell as a guide
Instead of its intended use which was as a warning
I linked to find his comments, and they generally support Jones' characterizations. This is what people should bring up when socialists roll their eyes at the comparisons to the Soviet Union and North Korea and claim they only support democratic socialism that respects civil liberties. This kind of stuff is truly frightening and dangerous.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Running away from what? Point to me when Trump has used abhorrent rhetoric about any Caucasian group not directly criticizing him? If you listened only to him you wouldn't understand that crime among immigrants (legal or illegal) is actually lower than the general population.
If you fear being cast in Trump's shadow than get out of it and join the chorus of those criticizing the language he's using. Afterall, most progressives support deportation of the vast majority of illegal immigrants. A little class and decency in how we deal with this group shouldn't be too much to ask for from any normal POTUS.
If that's true, they need to start talking like they do. Most of what comes out of progressives' mouths is abolishing ICE and granting a general amnesty to all but violent offenders.
Here are a couple of problems and I'll even stipulate that he has a soft spot for white people because he's white and it seems everyone leans towards what they know best:
1) We are being flooded from Latin America. They are the aggressors.
2) BLM and black football players are attacking the institution of law enforcement in America. Their point of view and tactics has lit a match on the situation regardless of the realities on the streets which includes potentially life threatening situations at every traffic stop.
I do not approve of his rhetoric and I'm on record with some mock speeches I wish he would give. He has made it much more difficult than it has to be. But when it comes to illegal immigration there is an obvious system in place with political enabling going on at the highest levels.
But while we're at it, it is clear that white people are paying a swift price for their free speech. The attacks are all over the place.
Longtime Colts voice retired after using slur
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Iowa suspect 'forgot dead jogger in car'
“Mr Rivera's farm employers say he passed an immigration background check...
According to the Washington Post, the suspect used a stolen identification card to pass the Department of Homeland Security's E-Verify system.”
Interesting tidbit.
“Mr Rivera's farm employers say he passed an immigration background check...
According to the Washington Post, the suspect used a stolen identification card to pass the Department of Homeland Security's E-Verify system.”
Interesting tidbit.
ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
This is a pretty ridiculous statement, and I don't believe it on the face. However, you would be more believable if you would say "Most progressives support deportation of illegal immigrants once they commit a high-profile violent crime in a non-sanctuary city."
Progressives are all in on allowing unvetted adults to walk across the border with children, with no attempt beyond a verbal question as to whether the child actually belongs to him/her/them. At that point, they believe that all of them should be released - not detained - until their hearing date. How exactly is that a formula for deporting "the vast majority of illegal immigrants?" How is getting rid of ICE a formula for deporting "the vast majority of illegal immigrants?" And how do you expect anyone to believe this when the term illegal immigrant itself is considered hate speech?
True for legals but not true for illegals. Studies by law enforcement agencies/individuals prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. Unfortunately, studies that come out of left-leaning universities or institutions that want open borders like to muddy the water.
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I asked this in another thread
"I wonder if the libs will try to mitigate this by pointing out other people commit murder too."
Right on Cue SH posted this is this thread
"If you listened only to him you wouldn't understand that crime among immigrants (legal or illegal) is actually lower than the general population."
As if that is somehow a positive point. Hey Whoopee Let's open the borders.
Amazing.
SH
There would be NO CRIME from an illegal if they didn't break our law and sneak in.
You do understand that right?
"I wonder if the libs will try to mitigate this by pointing out other people commit murder too."
Right on Cue SH posted this is this thread
"If you listened only to him you wouldn't understand that crime among immigrants (legal or illegal) is actually lower than the general population."
As if that is somehow a positive point. Hey Whoopee Let's open the borders.
Amazing.
SH
There would be NO CRIME from an illegal if they didn't break our law and sneak in.
You do understand that right?
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Mitch McConnell strikes again
Teeing up future votes on 12 more Trump District Court nominees. Confirmation would mean a total of 38 District Judges total, 8 more than Obama at the same point
Can keep up here, if interested
4th_floor
Dude, where's my laptop?
I truly hate to give Milktoast McConnell credit for anything. I grudgingly do so here. But McConnell still needs to retire or be defeated at the next opportunity.
This is an interesting debate, because of the logic that each side follows and the values/priorities reflected by them. Of course, people who favor a more liberal immigration policy and less rigorous enforcement tend to argue that illegal immigrants commit less crime then native-born Americans. (We don't keep nationwide statistics on this, so we actually don't know if this is true or not.) The clear implication is that illegal immigrants aren't any more dangerous than US citizens, so it isn't fair to pick on them by associating them with crime. The Stephen King point is basically an inflammatory variant on this. Most on the other side tend to argue that, essentially, a crime by an illegal alien is worse than one committed by a citizen because it is enabled by a failure to enforce immigration laws and is therefore preventable.
The Left's priority is to avoid labeling a class of people unfairly and to separate the issue of illegal immigration from the crime issue, and of course it distrusts the Right's intentions by deeming their "real" agenda to be xenophobia and racism rather than public safety. (Similar arguments are made to separate Muslims from the terrorism issue while smearing the opposition.) The Right's priority is to focus on the preventability of these crimes and use them to indirectly assign blame for them to the Left. In a way, it's remarkably similar to the Left's strategy on gun violence and gun control. "He wouldn't have had the gun to commit the crime if you had listened to us"/"He wouldn't have been in the country to commit the crime if you had listened to us."
So you've got the Left (predictably)calling the Right racist and the Right holding the Left responsible for murder. And we wonder why compromises on immigration are so hard to forge.
Clean
5,000+ Posts
I think Elizabeth Warren summed up "progressives" stance on the Mollie Tibbetts' murder when she said something like; "I know this is hard for the family but we need to focus on WHERE THE REAL PROBLEMS ARE, like the child separation policy at the border". Apparently illegals killing American citizens isn't a real problem to the Left. It's sorta like "you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs".
Sen. Warren to Tibbetts Family: "This Is Hard" But We "Need" To Focus On "Real Problems" Like Family Separation
Sen. Warren to Tibbetts Family: "This Is Hard" But We "Need" To Focus On "Real Problems" Like Family Separation
I'm no Liz Warren apologist, but that is not a fair representation of what she said. Whenever I see multiple quotes pieced together to make it look like a complete statement, I'm always suspicious and justifiably so in this case. Her point wasn't that family separation was more important than crime. It was that prioritizing removing children from families isn't a smart use of resources and doesn't improve safety. It was cheap political rhetoric and an attempt to change the subject, but the quote was deceptively pieced together to make her look worse than she already looked.
Her full comment was: "My, I’m so sorry for the family here and I know this is hard and not only for the family but for the people in her community, the people throughout Iowa. But one of the things we have to remember is we need an immigration system that is effective, that focuses on where real problems are.
Last month, I went down to the border and I saw where children have been taken away from their mothers. I met with those mothers who had been lied to, who didn’t know where their children were, who hadn’t had a chance to talk to their children. And there was no plan for how they would be re-unified with their children.
I think we need immigration laws that focus on people who pose a real threat and I don’t think mom’s and babies are the place that we should be spending our resources. Separating a momma from a baby does not make this country safer."
I missed the part where Warren pointed put that the separation happens because of a court ruling, a liberal 9th court ruling.
And I missed the part where she offered what should be done instead when the illegal alien brings a child and gets caught.
BUT most of all she was pretty cold to try to deflect the horror of what that monster did.
And I missed the part where she offered what should be done instead when the illegal alien brings a child and gets caught.
BUT most of all she was pretty cold to try to deflect the horror of what that monster did.
I don't condone what she said. I'm just saying that the impression that the edited quote makes is misleading.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Be careful not to correlate dissatisfaction with the Trump Admin methods with a belief for "open borders". How often does the Obama deportation statistic get cited here? I have no problem with adjudicating immigrants at the border and sending them home. I have no issue with raiding workplaces employing illegals. I don't have a problem with ICE capturing illegals with suspected of violent crimes. Of course, we know thst last item is a small portion of ICE capture and deports.
Ok. I'm going to start applying extreme views to all conservatives, deal? Do you mind if I apply alt-right white supremacist views to conservatives?
You act if that is the only method. There is a legal expedited process for handling border crossers. Trump/Sessions made a purposeful decision not to add more immigration judges. There is also evidence that ankle monitors for illegals is very effective in coercing them to return for hearings.
The criticism progressives have for ICE 8s their methods.
Ultimately, progressives want humane treatment for all. If that bothers conservatives i'd argue that says more about their own character.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Wait...you just said you only believe what you supports your view and disregard data that does not. Thanks for the transparancy.
No, I go with people who are in the business (law enforcement) who know what they're talking about.
ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
Are you really going to argue that "progressive" and "conservative" are parallel terms? Do you really believe that all liberals are included in the phrase "progressive?"
Justice Department Touts New Immigration Judges, Quicker Hiring
"As the Justice Department’s immigration review office struggles with children coming across the border, it is hailing progress in reducing long-standing delays in hiring more immigration judges.
On Aug. 10, 23 new judges were invested by the department’s Executive Office for Immigration Review, the largest class since at least 2010, the department announced. That represents a cut in average hiring time by more than 50 percent, which the department said was the result of Attorney General Jeff Sessions' effort at streamlining hiring under deadlines announced last year.
Some of the new immigration judges were hired in about 266 days, down from an average of 742 days a year ago, Justice stated. A 2017 Government Accountability Office report said hiring immigration judges was taking about two years, and that the review office lacked a clear hiring strategy."
Is that enough? They probably need to continue to improve, but it's better than we saw under... hmmm... what was that guy's name again? Oh yeah...
He did... From our good friends at Snopes (yeah... I know...)
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-deported-more-people/
"That statistic was due in large part to a change in how "deportations" are defined rather than to an increase in the number of persons deported."
"Until recent years, most people caught illegally crossing the southern border were simply bused back into Mexico in what officials called “voluntary returns,” but which critics derisively termed “catch and release.” Those removals, which during the 1990s reached more 1 million a year, were not counted in Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s deportation statistics.
Now, the vast majority of border crossers who are apprehended get fingerprinted and formally deported. The change began during the George W. Bush administration and accelerated under Obama. The policy stemmed in part from a desire to ensure that people who had crossed into the country illegally would have formal charges on their records.
In the Obama years, all of the increase in deportations has involved people picked up within 100 miles of the border, most of whom [had] just recently crossed over. In 2013, almost two-thirds of deportations were in that category."
"
The deportation trend abated towards the latter part of the Obama administration, with Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) announcing efforts to “prioritize convicted criminals and threats to public safety, border security, and national security.” Although 2013 was a record-setting year with 435,498 deportations, 2015 saw the lowest numbers in a decade, according to ICE.
Data provided by ICE dating back to 1892 records that annual deportations jumped into the hundred-thousands in 1997, when the U.S. deported 114,432 people. Just one year earlier, the U.S. had deported only 69,680 people.
According to the non-profit immigrant advocacy group American Immigration Council, the trend in growing deportation numbers long preceded Barack Obama’s presidency:"
And there's the playbook. Define the progressive position in the most general, wide, friendly way and then accuse conservatives of being against it. That's just dishonest and beneath you. Yes, you got us, conservatives don't want people treated humanely. We're thinking of passing legislation specifically to make sure that all illegal immigrants are treated inhumanely, because that's our priority in all this.
I never thought you were a progressive before. Has that changed, or did I just misread the situation?
And you still haven't come even close to backing up this ridiculous claim that progressives aren't for open borders. Ocasio-Cortez: Border patrol should offer "safe passage". Keith Ellison wears a shirt saying "I don't believe in borders."
And when you make the argument that we shouldn't be turning away families at the border (and yes, that's the argument being made), and the only people who should be deported are violent offenders, you are de facto arguing for open borders. When you argue for creating sanctuary cities that will not cooperate with ICE, and then encourage families from other countries to come in, you are in fact arguing for open borders.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Pay closer attention. "Progressives" is not equal to extremists (eg. antifa, LaRaza) even though you'd like to make it so. Look at my response to @ProdigalHorn.
Unless you think money can be used to absolve a person's sins I'm not sure the point of the charity remark. That's not to discount someone that chooses to give to charity but that doesn't absolve one of being an ******* in another area of their life.
I agree
Nope. I'm saying being an ******* (like I can often be) does not preclude one from giving to charity. Pretty simple.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Jim Brown comes out of the closet. Says its his duty, as a good American
NFL Legend Jim Brown Backs Trump In 2020, Says Support Will 'Make Me Very Unpopular In The Black Community'
" .... Appearing on "The JT The Brick Show" on Fox Sports Radio this week, Brown said he's supporting President Donald Trump in 2020. And he doesn't care what the "black community" thinks.
"I should be criticizing Trump on every level because he does certain things that call for criticism but when I look at television I see all these announcers become experts and they're pointing the fingers and they're not doing a doggone thing but pointing their fingers, I find myself really pulling for the president," Brown said.
"Now, that would make me very unpopular in the black community, very unpopular with a lot of Americans ... but I think that there are certain good things that are coming out of this presidency because we've never seen anything like it," Brown said, as reported by TMZ.
Brown said it's his duty as a good American. "I believe that I have to work on myself first to be as good a person as I could be to back up my country as best as I know how." ...."
"I should be criticizing Trump on every level because he does certain things that call for criticism but when I look at television I see all these announcers become experts and they're pointing the fingers and they're not doing a doggone thing but pointing their fingers, I find myself really pulling for the president," Brown said.
"Now, that would make me very unpopular in the black community, very unpopular with a lot of Americans ... but I think that there are certain good things that are coming out of this presidency because we've never seen anything like it," Brown said, as reported by TMZ.
Brown said it's his duty as a good American. "I believe that I have to work on myself first to be as good a person as I could be to back up my country as best as I know how." ...."
NFL Legend Jim Brown Backs Trump In 2020, Says Support Will 'Make Me Very Unpopular In The Black Community'
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Yeah...that's exactly what I'm saying.
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