Russia attacking Ukraine 2/16?

1. This goes to show the ineffectiveness of the UN. Adversaries US, UK, France vs Russia, China on the security council. They’ll never agree on much of importance.

2. If this comes to pass, then Russia will end up a little bigger, and Ukraine a little smaller. Some moderate and temporary sanctions will likely be lifted in short order. Lots of speech making and grandstanding—“We really showed them.” Everyone declares victory.
 
iatrogenic said:
Thank goodness the commies aren't trying to expand anywhere else.:rolleyes1:
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The have infiltrated the West which is why the focus shouldn't be on Russia or even China. Europe and North America have basically been taken over by mix of fascism and socialism. It isn't complete yet. But we see academia, government, corporations, and entertainment all aligned together pushing Critical Gender and Race Theory. This is Marxism 4.0, and it is a home grown strain of the disease. Need to fight that off or it will matter even less what Russia does in Ukraine.
 
Chop said:
2. If this comes to pass, then Russia will end up a little bigger, and Ukraine a little smaller. Some moderate and temporary sanctions will likely be lifted in short order. Lots of speech making and grandstanding—“We really showed them.” Everyone declares victory.
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Chop, my thought is that Russia would potentially recognize Luhansk and Donetsk as independent states. They wouldn't be annexed. So Russia doesn't grow but Ukraine does shrink a bit. Not sure what the best outcome would be but that is not the worst.
 
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So Russia formally acknowledged the "independence" of 2 separatist regions yesterday and today formally invaded Ukraine by moving in troops. It's Crimea all over again with the only difference being the Russian troops didn't remove their identifying patches and paint on the tanks.

What happens next? I think Russia returns to a detente status awaiting the next excuse to foment a separatist region and steal it. Putin is OK with the long game of slowly taking back the Iron Cutain areas piece by piece. Areas that spent decades relocating Russians into and have become a ready-made excuse for taking them back with the land they live on.
 
Marxism! LOL
Monahorns said:
Chop, my interesting is that Russia would potentially recognize Luhansk and Donetsk as independent states. They wouldn't be annexed. So Russia doesn't grow but Ukraine does shrink a bit. Not sure what the best outcome would be but that is not the worst.
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How "independent" is Belarus? It's a puppet state, just as these will be.
 
Seattle Husker said:
So Russia formally acknowledged the "independence" of 2 separatist regions yesterday and today formally invaded Ukraine by moving in troops. It's Crimea all over again with the only difference being the Russian troops didn't remove their identifying patches and paint on the tanks.

What happens next? I think Russia returns to a detente status awaiting the next excuse to foment a separatist region and steal it. Putin is OK with the long game of slowly taking back the Iron Cutain areas piece by piece. Areas that spent decades relocating Russians into and have become a ready-made excuse for taking them back with the land they live on.
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That sounds very similar to the settlers in the West Bank. I watched a very interesting drama a few years ago written in that world. Our Boys. It was a procedural written in that world.
 
https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/7459450.html

Using Google Translate:

1. According to Putin, Russia recognized the DPR and LPR within the boundaries defined in the 2014 referenda and enshrined in the constitutions of the republics. The discussions - front/border - have come to an end. Donbass will be completely liberated. Mariupol, Slavyansk, Kramatorsk, Lisichansk - should return to their native harbor.

Selection_153-220x300.jpg


2. The leadership of the LPR and DPR has already indicated a desire to ensure the complete liberation of the territories of the DPR and LPR occupied by Ukraine. So far, Kiev is being offered to get out on good terms, cease fire and withdraw troops. There is no massive entry of Russian troops into the LDNR yet. Bye. The fighting in the LDNR continues.

3. Russia today began recalling diplomatic workers from Ukraine "for security reasons." So far, Kiev has been discussing whether to break off diplomatic relations or not. It is quite obvious that there will be no negotiations with the Zelensky regime. Moscow does not consider it subjective.

4. In the statements of Putin and Lavrov, it was unambiguously indicated that the guarantees of the sovereignty of the former republics of the USSR do not apply to Ukraine - external management is to blame. In fact, Ukraine has been presented with an ultimatum with a number of unrealistic demands for the Kiev regime.

5. All documents between the Russian Federation and the LDNR were ratified today and the legalization process of the LDNR was completed today. Now the issues of ensuring the military protectorate of the Russian Federation over the people's republics are coming close. Today, such terms as Minsk-2 and ORDLO have finally died.

6. The sanctions imposed by the West turned out to be an actual zilch and a kind of proposal - "if you stop at the current borders of the LDNR, then we will not impose many sanctions, but if you start taking more, then we will introduce more sanctions."
 
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OUBubba said:
They have free and fair elections. Closer to Eastonia than Belarus.
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Then why are all the people in power there those who were working directly with the Obama administration to carry out the Maidan Revolution?

There are phone records of Victoria Nuland discussing who should and shouldn't be put into power in the new Ukrainian government. That doesn't sound like election integrity to me. It sounds much like what Putin is doing now.

The only good outcome is for Ukraine to truly do what they want. But so far the options are to be a Russian puppet or a US puppet.
 
Most Ukrainians when polled say they would rather be allied with that faraway democracy and its European trading partners than that drunken collapsing autocracy run by a megalomaniac.

No word from the Donald yet on his choice
 
Local Nashville news just said, “in order for America to defend democracy, it might pay a price in gas cost.” Do most Americans not know Ukraine is not a democracy?
 


Pretty powerful speech from the Kenyan ambassador to the UN:

TL/DR version is roughly ....

I know what it's like to have people you share a cultural, religious, or ethnic heritage with, divided from you by a national border. In our case it's even an arbitrary border chosen for us by someone else. But though the yearning to integrate with ones people in neighboring states is strong, and understandable, we must reject those who aim to do it by force. That would be living in the past, rather than strengthening the future. We cannot accept those who claim to simply be unifying with their peoples across a line on the map when they use threats and violence to accomplish it.

"We must complete our recovery from the embers of dead empires in a way that does not plunge us back into new forms of domination & oppression...”
 
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Huis
In case you do not know "the Donald" is not POTUS and has no gov't position.
Maybe pay closer attention to those in power and their actions.
 
https://nonzero.substack.com/p/why-bide ... source=url

Interesting perspective in this opinion piece. Here's the intro:

A couple of decades from now, someone reading an account of the 2022 Russia-Ukraine war—if that’s what the Ukraine crisis turns into, as it seems to be doing—may have this thought:

Wait, let me get this straight. So the leaders of the big NATO countries didn’t especially want Ukraine to join NATO? And agreeing to not let Ukraine join NATO—agreeing to not do what they didn’t want to do anyway—might have kept Russia from invading Ukraine? But they didn’t do that? And doing that wasn’t even seriously discussed? Like, virtually no influential American commentators argued that doing this would make sense? How could that be?​


I hadn't really thought about this.

There’s been a lot of talk—from administration officials and others—about how excluding Ukraine from NATO would somehow violate Ukraine’s “sovereign right” to decide which alliances it joins. That’s nonsense. Ukraine has no more of a sovereign right to join NATO than I have to join the Council on Foreign Relations. International alliances, like organizations at the heart of the Blob, get to choose their members.​


Then the author goes into the reasons Biden may have never seriously considered true negotiations. Some may find it interesting.

1. The Chamberlain comparison
2. The Putin can't be reasoned with argument
 
theiioftx said:
Local Nashville news just said, “in order for America to defend democracy, it might pay a price in gas cost.” Do most Americans not know Ukraine is not a democracy?
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To the media "democracy" = US led leftist global hegemony. That is why the Canadian trucker protest is described as against "democracy".
 
Statalyzer, the situation in Ukraine isn't about freedom vs empire, but empire vs empire. What country in the world wields more power and influence than any other and has for 30 years?
 
Russian_infantry_of_Napoleonic_Wars.jpg



Historically speaking:
(a Napoleonic-era British description of the Russian Army)

"The Russian infantry was generally composed of athletic men...inured to extremes of weather and hardship; to the worst and scantiest food; to marches for days and nights. ... In the charge of their close columns, their determined bearing of the bayonet, and their order for close action, they are equaled only by the British."

Another interesting tidbit, the Russian Army was actually kicking Frederick the Great's Prussian Army's a$$--that basically never happened--the Prussians almost always DID the a$$ kicking. But... the young Czar at the time was a little fanboy of Frederick the Great and wanted to be his pal--so he made peace, and Prussia rose to greatness and "became" Germany through forcible expansion (like Putin's doing).

Moral of the hi-story: Russian ground troops are formidable on or near their home turf--especially in winter.
But, not to worry much about that: Russia can't project power too far from home. Sea powers like Britain, Japan, and the US will check them.

Russian Infantry of Napoleonic Wars : Grenadiers : Jagers : Tactics : Uniforms
 
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Statalyzer, the situation in Ukraine isn't about freedom vs empire, but empire vs empire
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I don't think Ukraine is considered an Empire. It's about Invader vs Invaded, Conqueror vs Defender.

274719550_10158820128853299_1659159658795574262_n.jpg
 
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