Russia attacking Ukraine 2/16?

Chop said:
Piss-Saki is most definitely a spin artist. Nuland had a moment of candor, but if you watch the video, she was squirming and noticeably uncomfortable when giving that answer.
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Marco Rubio was asking the question. You could say many congresspeople are very good at leading the witness to support a narrative. Was Rubio simply asking to learn or was he attempting to reinforce a pre-determined narrative? Only Rubio knows the answer.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Marco Rubio was asking the question. You could say many congresspeople are very good at leading the witness to support a narrative. Was Rubio simply asking to learn or was he attempting to reinforce a pre-determined narrative? Only Rubio knows the answer.
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My take based on body language of both Nuland and Rubio is that he didn't expect her to say that, he didn't like her answer, so he immediately sort of steered her away from what she was saying regarding the facts of the bio labs, and into a more generic Russia sucks/Russia is at fault sort of testimony that 95% of Americans can agree with.
 
Russia was after the Bio Labs destruction, and destroying all neo Nazi military or money laundering operations. That’s it! Eventually there will be a cease fire and I would think the separatist regions (2), will be independent. If Ukraine would sign that, and recognize Crimea as Russian, this would be over. That’s my understanding.
 
AC said:
Russia was after the Bio Labs destruction, and destroying all neo Nazi military or money laundering operations. That’s it! Eventually there will be a cease fire and I would think the separatist regions (2), will be independent. If Ukraine would sign that, and recognize Crimea as Russian, this would be over. That’s my understanding.
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I agree with the possible end point. But the situation is unstable and therefore who knows ultimately what Russia will push for. They could try to take all of Ukraine. It is still possible they go out from there.

But I think Russia will be satisfied with taking up to the Dnieper. The less they hold onto the better for everyone.

I listened to a report of what their government is doing to protesters. Brutal and sadistic. My hope is that after Putin, Russia will liberalize. It's what the younger people there want.
 
Monahorns said:
I agree with the possible end point. But the situation is unstable and therefore who knows ultimately what Russia will push for. They could try to take all of Ukraine. It is still possible they go out from there.

But I think Russia will be satisfied with taking up to the Dnieper. The less they hold onto the better for everyone.

I listened to a report of what their government is doing to protesters. Brutal and sadistic. My hope is that after Putin, Russia will liberalize. It's what the younger people there want.
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What would a liberalized Russia look like?
 
Russia still has a medieval mindset. They are not of the West. They had no Renaissance, no Enlightenment, no Reformation, no Democratic/Republic tradition or history. They went straight from medieval absolute autocracy under the Czars, to communist tyranny under the leftists. They emerged, and they didn't seem to know what to do. They're like that kid who was extremely sheltered, home schooled, isolated, and abused by his dad, then shows up one day at 18 at UT (or Texas State, even better). A fish out of water in the modern world.

Dugin strikes me as a kooky occultist, but he does seem to really understand the Russian mindset in a deep, maybe even spiritual way. Those people don't think like us. Totally different thought patterns and ways of viewing the world. I've known some. Good people, but coming from a much different place both geographically and mentally. Same with the Bulgarians I've know. Very hierarchical. And once a decision has been made, dissent is not viewed kindly.

A "liberal" Russia -- good luck with that.
I just want them to be themselves and stop invading other sovereign nations. They're really good at hockey, ballet, fine crystal making, Easter egg making, classical music, rocket science, and other things.
 
Seattle Husker said:
The Whitehouse PR Secretary is a spin artist. Always has been and always will be. Did you actually believe Sean Spicer's laughable claims from the same podium?

Nuland's role, especially when testifying to congress, is a much more serious role. With that said, the National Review article, if accurate, does paint the picture that they both could be right. Like many issues, context of the question matters. It's not black or white typically.
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I think Psaki though believes her own BS.
 
AC said:
What would a liberalized Russia look like?
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More honest elections. Less economic intervention and privatization of Gazprom. End to all political assasinations and imprisonments. Freedom of speech. Right to own weapons. You know the usual.
 
Monahorns said:
I listened to a report of what their government is doing to protesters. Brutal and sadistic. My hope is that after Putin, Russia will liberalize. It's what the younger people there want.
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They've consistently gone in reverse under Putin. The progress they've made towards a Market economy is about to be undone as they'll nationalize shuttered manufacturing plants out of necessity. Socially, they've been de-liberalizing since Putin took power.
 
Seattle Husker said:
They've consistently gone in reverse under Putin. The progress they've made towards a Market economy is about to be undone as they'll nationalize shuttered manufacturing plants out of necessity. Socially, they've been de-liberalizing since Putin took power.
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Read Dude!

Monahorns said:
My hope is that after Putin, Russia will liberalize. It's what the younger people there want.
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Words 5 and 6.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Like many issues, context of the question matters
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And with the often carefully constructed answers.

Had a thought, maybe the ‘lab’ construct (real or not) is to give Putin an opportunity to withdraw with the claim he has neutralized them. The whole thing is puzzling but for whatever reason the Rubio questioning - giving her the way out of her answer and just asking the question seems so odd to me.
 
nashhorn said:
Had a thought, maybe the ‘lab’ construct (real or not) is to give Putin an opportunity to withdraw with the claim he has neutralized them.
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This would probably be the best case. It is a ridiculous excuse. But it would allow Putin to save face while claiming victory and withdrawing troops.
 
Monahorns said:
Read Dude!



Words 5 and 6.
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I read it and responded. Your "hope" hasn't been born out by Russia's history under Putin. It's the same "hope" that progressives (me included) espoused for Iran and nothing changed. At this point only a change in leadership will lead to a potential for liberalization. For Putin, that will likely mean his death.
 
Seattle Husker said:
I read it and responded. Your "hope" hasn't been born out by Russia's history under Putin. It's the same "hope" that progressives (me included) espoused for Iran and nothing changed. At this point only a change in leadership will lead to a potential for liberalization. For Putin, that will likely mean his death.
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OMG.
 
Chop said:
Russia still has a medieval mindset. They are not of the West. They had no Renaissance, no Enlightenment, no Reformation, no Democratic/Republic tradition or history. They went straight from medieval absolute autocracy under the Czars, to communist tyranny under the leftists. They emerged, and they didn't seem to know what to do. They're like that kid who was extremely sheltered, home schooled, isolated, and abused by his dad, then shows up one day at 18 at UT (or Texas State, even better). A fish out of water in the modern world.

Dugin strikes me as a kooky occultist, but he does seem to really understand the Russian mindset in a deep, maybe even spiritual way. Those people don't think like us. Totally different thought patterns and ways of viewing the world. I've known some. Good people, but coming from a much different place both geographically and mentally. Same with the Bulgarians I've know. Very hierarchical. And once a decision has been made, dissent is not viewed kindly.

A "liberal" Russia -- good luck with that.
I just want them to be themselves and stop invading other sovereign nations. They're really good at hockey, ballet, fine crystal making, Easter egg making, classical music, rocket science, and other things.
Click to expand...
I spent a month living in Russia. My kids were adopted from there. Asking them to allow the US to fund money laundering and Bio Weapon Labs at their border and just deal with it. That’s not going to fly. Ukraine was paid by the Obama Administration to set up Bio Weapon Labs. Ukraine made Plubonic Plague, Anthrax, Small Pox, Botulism there. They invaded Ukraine to destroy all of this. I posted phone conversations of Biden with Petro Poreshinko. Biden laundered $10’s of millions in Ukraine. Victoria Nuland with a Ukrainian defense minister discussing the new prime minister they would install in Ukraine.
I do NOT stand with Ukraine.
 
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