Russia attacking Ukraine 2/16?
- Thread starter Seattle Husker
- Start date
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
I don't understand what you're talking about here. Are you saying that Russia planned the Maiden Revolution? I don't think that's what you mean. What are you talking about?
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
NATO was a tool for world peace up until the USSR desolved. After that time, NATO transitioned into a tool for US and western hegemony. Why? Because it could. The NATO expansion began in 1997 and the invasion and carving up of Yugoslavia was the template for the future of Russia as seen by the neocons.
Putin sees Russia as the potential next Yugoslavia. And why wouldn't he think that? Putin compares this NATO expansion to what Germany did prior to invading Russia. And he said he would not wait so long that history would repeat. He previously stated, "if you know you are going to be in a fight, you should throw the first punch."
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Not the Maiden Revolution but involvement for 2/20/14 which is the day that snipers opened fire on the protesters. Ukraine investigators charged 30 members of the FSB for their involvement and planning of the crackdown that resulted in 108 deaths.
The crackdown didn't have the required effect as the Ukraine Parliament the very next day impeached Yanukoyvich who concurrently agreed to step down.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
NATO isn't invading a nuclear power...ever. If someone says that they will with a straight face you should laugh at them.
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Perhaps that was the intended role of the Biolabs?
If you think that such ridiculous plans such as invading a nuclear superpower is laughable, I'd advise you to read "The Doomsday Machine" by Daniel Ellsberg. There are people high up that actually are loony enough to believe first strike victories and the like can be achieved. And while the saner people most likely will check and overrule such sociopaths, nothing is guaranteed.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
It's all too convenient that the "Biolabs" are now the reason du jour for Russia's invasion. Just to think, that likely ranked below the Nazi reasoning as plausible for Putin's communication team when they looked for ways to justify the war.
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Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Nobody said the Biolabs are the reason for the invasion (other than you). But if does provide for more justification. No? Why is the department of defense involved in clandestine funding of biolabs if there is no military interest? Diversification? Ha.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
The biolabs is such a Q thing. They'll link it to satanic child devouring cabals soon enough.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
It's a Fog of War thing. There may or may not be labs in those locations. It's impossible to verify the information that can only be traced back to random anonymous accounts. It screams "conspiracy" BS.
Unfortunately, you and I lack CTS (aka Critical Thinking Skills) which only those conspiracy theorists appear to have.
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Here's an update:
https://www.rt.com/russia/551448-russia-military-evacuation-ukraine/
In a statement late on Monday, the Russian Defense Ministry said that it will ensure safe passage for civilians from Kiev, Chernigov, Mariupol, Kharkov and Sumy all the way to Russian territory. People leaving Kiev and Chernigov, a city northeast of the capital, would first arrive in Belarus, from where they would be flown to Russia. Refugees from the three other cities could cross into Russia directly.
The Ukrainian side, meanwhile, would provide exit routes to civilians seeking to escape Mariupol, Kharkiv and Sumy through Ukrainian territory, according to the proposal.
The Russian military said that the humanitarian corridors would be opened from 0700 GMT Tuesday under a temporary ceasefire. It urged Kiev to accept the proposed evacuation plan until 1200 GMT the same day.
Russia registered some 2 million appeals for evacuation assistance in the span of the last two days, the Russian Defense Ministry claimed. It stressed that the scope of the messages prompted it to “prepare and carry out the humanitarian operation.”
“Its results depend solely on the Ukrainian side,” the ministry said, accusing Ukrainian “nationalists” of blocking civilians from leaving areas under Kiev’s control.
Earlier on Monday, Kiev rejected Moscow’s previous proposal to establish humanitarian corridors that would have seen Ukrainian refugees fleeing to Russia through Belarus. Ukraine’s Deputy Prime Minister Iryna Vereshchuk called the offer “absurd and unacceptable.” She suggested Moscow should instead accept alternative routes put forward by the Ukrainian side.
While both parties have insisted that they were willing to ensure safe passage of civilians through ‘humanitarian corridors,’ multiple attempts to reach such agreements have failed, with Moscow and Kiev pointing fingers at each other for the lack of progress as each side blames the other for violating temporary ceasefire deals.
So the proposal is there. Doubt if it happens, even if Ukrainian negotiators agree to it. They don't control what the military allows.The Ukrainian side, meanwhile, would provide exit routes to civilians seeking to escape Mariupol, Kharkiv and Sumy through Ukrainian territory, according to the proposal.
The Russian military said that the humanitarian corridors would be opened from 0700 GMT Tuesday under a temporary ceasefire. It urged Kiev to accept the proposed evacuation plan until 1200 GMT the same day.
Russia registered some 2 million appeals for evacuation assistance in the span of the last two days, the Russian Defense Ministry claimed. It stressed that the scope of the messages prompted it to “prepare and carry out the humanitarian operation.”
“Its results depend solely on the Ukrainian side,” the ministry said, accusing Ukrainian “nationalists” of blocking civilians from leaving areas under Kiev’s control.
Earlier on Monday, Kiev rejected Moscow’s previous proposal to establish humanitarian corridors that would have seen Ukrainian refugees fleeing to Russia through Belarus. Ukraine’s Deputy Prime Minister Iryna Vereshchuk called the offer “absurd and unacceptable.” She suggested Moscow should instead accept alternative routes put forward by the Ukrainian side.
While both parties have insisted that they were willing to ensure safe passage of civilians through ‘humanitarian corridors,’ multiple attempts to reach such agreements have failed, with Moscow and Kiev pointing fingers at each other for the lack of progress as each side blames the other for violating temporary ceasefire deals.
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Some of these people might have relatives in Russia or Belarus. Also, they would speak the same language in these countries, but maybe not speak Polish for example. Most would likely hope to return when the war is settled and hopefully would be able to find employment and the electric grid, etc. still in place. If the country winds up being decimated, returning may not be much of an option. Because Russia has the upper hand militarily, but Ukraine will not surrender, its very probable there will be nothing to return to for most of them.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Assuming that Russia will simply let the families meander about Russia as their husbands, sons, and fathers fight Russia in Ukraine is naive at best. At worst it's Internet Research Agency propaganda.
TaylorTRoom
1,000+ Posts
Peace only failed because Putin decided to grab Ukraine. Nobody made him. Now, his stupidity has him in a mess that he’ll never get out of, as he wrecks two nations in pursuit of his dream.
It turns out that the regular Russian army is total ****.
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
The billions of weapons pouring into Ukraine over the past few years were intended strengthen the military in order to defeat the breakaway Republics and also take back Crimea. Russia stepped in before it reached that point. If Putin wanted Ukraine, he’d have taken it in 2015. The US is behind this strategy (eastward NATO expansion) and has been since the late 90’s. Your black and white fantasies resemble CNN.
TaylorTRoom
1,000+ Posts
Musburger, your fantasies resemble some mashup of RT, Qanon and “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Like Putin, you always start at the point of reaction to Russia's actions. The buildup happened after Russia had stolen Crimea and moved armaments into Donetsk and Luhansk. You're like a referee that misses Aaron Donald choking a player and only responds to the response of a player swinging at AD because he was choking an opponent.
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Chicken and egg. Putin's move into Crimea followed the US sponsored coup. There is a case to be made no matter what side of these issues you defend.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Which was precipitated by Russia pressuring Yanukovych to not sign the extremely popular trade deal with the EU and their support for the Maiden Revolution massacre. He was forced out because he was a Russia puppet and a beacon for Ukrainian corruption which was validated by evidence after he fled.
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
One corrupt Russian puppet replaced by a corrupt US puppet. But the Eastern Ukraine elected him. They don’t have the right to choose their own path? Democracy for me but not for thee.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Zelensky is a puppet or are you talking about Poroschenko (sp?)? If Zelensky, it's clear based on the Trump call and subsequent statements and actions that he's the antithesis of a puppet. That doesn't mean he's 100% clean as I believe he has financial backing from a prominent Ukraine Oligarch. Still, he's clearly his own man as he's stood up to the West and Russia in advocating for Ukraine.
I'm less familiar with Poroschenko other than he was destroyed by Zelensky in the election and the latter rode in on a proverbial white horse as the bastion of anti-corruption.
Duck Dodgers
1,000+ Posts
What happened the last time Russia had a coup?
Duck Dodgers
1,000+ Posts
What he is is a fool. I know the media-industrial complex is making Zelensky the second coming of George Washington, with the Moral Righteous of N Mandela, minus the flaming tires around his opponent's necks.
But lets look at facts - his leadership has gotten his country invaded, and his people killed. He was neither cold nor hot and so Russia spat him out as lukewarm.
If you're a smaller country next to a bigger one, who has territorial designs on you, either do a Finland during the cold war, and give them no reason or pretext to invade, or do an Israel and make it impossible for them to do anything against you.
Ukraine did neither, to its ruin.
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Who the heck is in charge of the war?
US "Surprised", Wasn't Pre-Consulted On Poland's Announcement Of Jets For Ukraine | ZeroHedge
Update(17:24ET): This level of huge contradiction among allies on such a big development is just a bit awkward and even embarrassing. The Biden administration is saying it was caught completely by "surprise" at Poland's declaration hours ago that it would send all its Russian-produced MiG-29 jets to Ramstein Air Base in Germany for the United States to be able to transfer them to Ukraine.
While the possible plan was reportedly under consideration for days, it doesn't appear the White House was notified of Warsaw's final decision prior to the announcement being declared as a 'done deal' via the Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs website. Apparently for Washington, there was no done deal at all.
"Poland's decision to put all its MIG-29 jets at the disposal of the United States was not pre-consulted with Washington," State Department Undersecretary Victoria Nuland said Tuesday in the wake of Poland's statement. And more:
"To my knowledge, it wasn't pre-consulted with us that they planned to give these planes to us," she said at a hearing of Senate Foreign Relations Committee. "I look forward when this hearing is over to getting back to my desk and seeing how we will respond to this proposal of theirs to give the planes to us," she said.
Here's how the exchange began:
"I was in a meeting where I ought to have heard about that just before I came (to a Senate hearing), so I think that actually was a surprise move by the Poles," Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland told US lawmakers.
Asked by a senator whether US officials coordinated ahead of time with Poland before Warsaw made its announcement, Nuland said: "Not to my knowledge."
The official statement from Poland had said, "The authorities of the Republic of Poland, after consultations between the President and the Government, are ready to deploy – immediately and free of charge – all their MIG-29 jets to the Ramstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America."
Elsewhere during her Senate testimony remarks, Nuland said that the US is currently considering placing Patriot missile batteries in Poland.
US "Surprised", Wasn't Pre-Consulted On Poland's Announcement Of Jets For Ukraine | ZeroHedge
Update(17:24ET): This level of huge contradiction among allies on such a big development is just a bit awkward and even embarrassing. The Biden administration is saying it was caught completely by "surprise" at Poland's declaration hours ago that it would send all its Russian-produced MiG-29 jets to Ramstein Air Base in Germany for the United States to be able to transfer them to Ukraine.
While the possible plan was reportedly under consideration for days, it doesn't appear the White House was notified of Warsaw's final decision prior to the announcement being declared as a 'done deal' via the Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs website. Apparently for Washington, there was no done deal at all.
"Poland's decision to put all its MIG-29 jets at the disposal of the United States was not pre-consulted with Washington," State Department Undersecretary Victoria Nuland said Tuesday in the wake of Poland's statement. And more:
"To my knowledge, it wasn't pre-consulted with us that they planned to give these planes to us," she said at a hearing of Senate Foreign Relations Committee. "I look forward when this hearing is over to getting back to my desk and seeing how we will respond to this proposal of theirs to give the planes to us," she said.
Here's how the exchange began:
"I was in a meeting where I ought to have heard about that just before I came (to a Senate hearing), so I think that actually was a surprise move by the Poles," Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland told US lawmakers.
Asked by a senator whether US officials coordinated ahead of time with Poland before Warsaw made its announcement, Nuland said: "Not to my knowledge."
The official statement from Poland had said, "The authorities of the Republic of Poland, after consultations between the President and the Government, are ready to deploy – immediately and free of charge – all their MIG-29 jets to the Ramstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America."
Elsewhere during her Senate testimony remarks, Nuland said that the US is currently considering placing Patriot missile batteries in Poland.
Duck Dodgers
1,000+ Posts
Wrong. Stalin and Hitler signed a pack to divvy up eastern Europe, specifically Poland. He planned to double cross Hitler at a later date - but was stunned when Hitler did him one better and invaded first.
Would be the same if Ukraine and Russian signed a pack to say, divvy up Hungary, which unless I missed it, didn't happen.
Duck Dodgers
1,000+ Posts
Bill Roggio has been doing excellent reporting for years with regards to the terrorism war - providing far more accurate information about the situation in Afghanistan than the official stuff.
His Twitter account is below. Instead of the breathless "you go Ukraine!" cheerleading from other media types, based on random videos of tractors hauling away Russian equipment, or cute gals with AK's and bare feet, he actually analyzes the situation based on maps and on the ground facts.
https://twitter.com/billroggio
His Twitter account is below. Instead of the breathless "you go Ukraine!" cheerleading from other media types, based on random videos of tractors hauling away Russian equipment, or cute gals with AK's and bare feet, he actually analyzes the situation based on maps and on the ground facts.
https://twitter.com/billroggio
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