Russia attacking Ukraine 2/16?

bystander said:
Re: Kissinger

The man was all about reality if nothing else. But now that "we've learned our lesson" should we give China the green light on Taiwan? How about Argentina on Islas Malvinas (Falkland islands)? What about the Kuril Islands (Russia and Japanese dispute). Guess the Japanese better get ready since we've learned our lesson.
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You don't give anyone a green light for aggression but you also don't spend American lives and money on things on the other side of the world.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Clearly they all thought at the time that Putin was a rational actor. History is proving, especially with Ukraine, that isn't the case.
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You didn't understand what you read then. The point of ALL those different experts' comments is to show your assertion as incorrect.

Seattle Husker said:
A "neutral" Ukraine? What does that even mean. In 2015 when Mearshiemer gave that speech Russia had taken Crimea, was supporting Donbas rebels with armaments and mercenaries
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Link these statements together logically, please. I don't know what point you are making. But don't reject a statement just because a word is used that doesn't have a paragraph written to define it. You have a general idea what neutral means. No one is claiming Russian intervention equals neutrality.

Seattle Husker said:
What would the US do if Mexico was occupying Texas? Stay "neutral"? That's patently absurd.
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Yeah. But the analogy doesn't really fit when you look at many different parts of Eastern Europe where similar things are happening like Transnistria and Abkhazia and how that applies to Donbas. If conflict between the US arose against people in the Rio Grande Valley, it wouldn't be completely unreasonable to have some sort of semi-autonomous region backed by Mexico but still independent of it. The US government would still hate it but that wouldn't mean the people in the RGV would be wrong from wanting some political distance from Washington.

Seattle Husker said:
They can't make economic agreements with the West or Russia? Really? That's what triggered voting out the Russian puppet in 2010 (?). There was huge support domestically for an EU economic agreement that Russia and their puppet wouldn't support. So, the Parliament essentially impeached him. It was all legal but what I see Mearshiemer encouraging is that Ukraine couldn't grow. No ability to choose their own destiny. That's simply not realistic.
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It is more about internal conflicts within Ukraine even before the Donbas violence occurred and the history of what Ukraine is. What I mean is not all Ukraine was unified around the things you mention and there were laws enacted that discriminated against political minorities. You set up a bit of a straw man in your criticism.
 
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Look, a person can say, correctly, that Russia is the bad guy here, and should not have invaded Ukraine. But from Ukraine's point of view, their leaders have handled the last 8 years terribly. Now their country is invaded, their people being killed, and their way of life ruined, possibly for decades.

The West led them on about NATO membership, and providing military support and various sanctions. But all of the above failed, and Russia still invaded.

Is it wrong, yes. But it's wrong that if I wear a meat swimsuit and swim in chummy waters that a shark attacks me too. Doesn't make doing any of that wise.

Ukraine, if it was smart, would have pursued a Finland during the Cold War approach. Democracy, capitalism, links with the rest of Europe on trade. But tread very, very carefully on any military aspects, and after Russia's invasion of part of Georgia in 2008, very carefully with dealings with Russia.
 
AC said:

Lavrov's Interview With Al Jazeera on 2.3.2022

Excerpt from today's Al Jazeera interview with Lavrov:

Q: Was that the most important thing?

Sergey Lavrov: No. It all piled up. There are drops that overflow the cup of patience. I would suggest considering all that I have listed as an everyday argument, a phenomenon that convinced us day after day that the West had set a course for using Ukraine to contain Russia, to create an "anti-Russia", a "hostile belt". For a couple of years, Ukraine has been pumped with weapons, and recently it has been especially active. The Americans and the British built military and naval bases there, for example, on the Sea of Azov. Through the Pentagon, military biological laboratories were created in order to continue experiments on bacteria. This program of the Americans is classified. It exists in other countries of the former Soviet Union right along the perimeter of the Russian Federation.​
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Everyone that loves freedom needs to get Truth Social in the App Store! It goes live March 30th! It will reveal what MSM would not allow to be revealed. I am afraid we have all been lied to for a very long time.
 
Thanks Seattle Husker. Always fun to make you laugh. My Lib friend in LA used to send me post cards of Santa at the North Pole and the ice cap was all melted. We had a good time back in the day, making fun of each other!
 
Horn6721 said:
Ukraine has set up a site for families back in Russia to learn the status of their loved ones who are captured and or wounded in Ukraine.
They are trying to allow the Russian mothers to be able to speak to their sons etc.
That is amazing and humanitarian.
Russia is trying to block access to the site.
MSN
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It's humanitarian but also a PR tactic by the Ukrainians. Putin has an iron grip on Russian media to support his attempts to control the narrative. He leverages it to control the population. Mothers hearing something different from their sons has the extreme risk of undercutting any internally targeted propaganda.
 
I hope it can be extended.
There is something perverse about Russia agreeing to a temporary cease fire, to stop shooting bombing shelling and killing people long enough for aid supplies and medical treatment to get into areas
Only to start up again with the shelling and killing.
 
A Russian Major General was killed by a Ukrainian sniper. Before this war, the late General Sukhovetsky was heavily involved in Russia’s war in Syria. Putin confirms his death.
 
Mikhail Watford—a billionaire Russian living in England mysteriously died yesterday—he was found hanging in his estate’s garage. There are concerns that he may have been on a KGB “hit list”…?
 
Musburger1 said:
Ok. I'll give you my opinion since you care.

This conflict is multiple years in the making. Russia (under Putin) has voiced for years that NATO must not advance eastward. For years he has said that the "defensive missiles" erected near Russian borders constitute a threat. For years, US/NATO paid no attention. In December, Putin clearly laid out what was needed to satisfy Russia's security demands. He said if the security demands were not addressed, he would remove the threat.

The US/NATO has responded saying that every country is sovereign and has the right to defend itself as it sees fit and that Russia has no right to say who can't join NATO. Yet, at the same time, Ukraine has been asking for years to be a member of NATO, yet NATO won't let them in. Doesn't that seem the least bit contradictory? We defend the right for you to join the NATO alliance, but we aren't going to accept you. Hmm.

Russia is now in the process of removing the threat. And we are on the path to mutually assured ECONOMIC destruction. Hopefully that will be as far as it goes, because that alone is devastating.
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I guess Putin doesn’t rule the world. He has made a galactic f***up that will hurt Russia long after he is burning in hell. This isn’t a mutual economic disaster. It is an unforced error that will decimate Russia for years. The Russian’s quote stating “we don’t give a sh*t about your sanctions” will be rued for years by the commies.
 
iatrogenic said:
I guess Putin doesn’t rule the world. He has made a galactic f***up that will hurt Russia long after he is burning in hell. This isn’t a mutual economic disaster. It is an unforced error that will decimate Russia for years. The Russian’s quote stating “we don’t give a sh*t about your sanctions” will be rued for years by the commies.
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Hopefully you are right and I am wrong with our projections. I think we’ll see within a few months where this is going. Global scarcity and inflation is about to go off the charts.
 
Musburger1 said:
Hopefully you are right and I am wrong with our projections. I think we’ll see within a few months where this is going. Global scarcity and inflation is about to go off the charts.
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It will affect Russia much worse than everyone else.
 
iatrogenic said:
It will affect Russia much worse than everyone else.
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The global pain will accelerate with the sanctions. Although they will effect Russia more than the US, India, Africa, especially Europe, all importing countries will be hurt. And in the interest of their people they will blame the US sanctions and find ways to get around them.
 
Musburger1 said:
The global pain will accelerate with the sanctions. Although they will effect Russia more than the US, India, Africa, especially Europe, all importing countries will be hurt. And in the interest of their people they will blame the US sanctions and find ways to get around them.
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And taking this further, should Russia survive this, it plays into the hands of ending the US dollar reign as world currency. Other countries will want to find ways to get out of the present arrangement. The dollar is now used as a financial weapon to subjugate potential opponents. Who the hell feels safe with that arrangement?
 


No insurance on shipping means halt of exports out of the Black sea; This includes Russian oil and also both Russian and Ukrainian wheat.
 
iatrogenic said:
It will affect Russia much worse than everyone else.
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It will hurt normal Russian citizens more than anyone else. The oligarchs' lifestyle won't change. Some with all the other places too. Normal citizens harmed, political and business leaders won't be.
 
Could be Russian misinformation. Could be real. Who knows? Could there be division within the Ukrainian ranks? The fact is, tweeters aren't credible of course; but then unfortunately, neither or news reports.



1/2 The DPR said that the Ukrainian military launched a missile attack on the headquarters of the Azov special detachment in the south-west of Mariupol, more than 20 militants and 10 pieces of equipment were destroyed.
According to the People's Militia of the DPR, the order

2/2 to strike from Tochka-U was given after the Azov militants completely refused to obey the command of the Ukrainian military and coordinate their actions with it, and the commander of the Vostok group,General Sodol was mortally wounded in clashes with Azov militants- Skabeeva
 
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