One of the biggest artificial constraints on the supply in the medical market is the AMA—a doctors guild. They restrict the number of medical students and new doctors. Now I don’t want the C and D students in medical school, but that’s not a worry. There are probably well-qualified applicants for medical school numbering at least 2-3 times the number of incoming new medical students each year. In other words, we could have 2-3 times the number of new doctors each year without sacrificing quality. Same for new RNs.
Rolovich fired for vaccine refusal
- Thread starter Chop
- Start date
Horns11
10,000+ Posts
Inside Nick Rolovich's downfall at Washington State over the COVID-19 vaccine
So, he has his opportunity to get his 2 cents in about whether Bill Gates has a patent on the vaccine, or if Simian Virus is in the vaccine, then claims a BS religious exemption. After discussing it with June Jones, of course. That epidemiological expert.
So, he has his opportunity to get his 2 cents in about whether Bill Gates has a patent on the vaccine, or if Simian Virus is in the vaccine, then claims a BS religious exemption. After discussing it with June Jones, of course. That epidemiological expert.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
It's interesting that he is one of only 36 whose exceptions were denied. If the conversations he had with the professor and June Jones are accurate, he wasn't concerned for religious reasons. Rolovich trusted amateur internet medical professionals.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
It shows that masks don't stop the spread. The curve shape is the point.
The case and deaths rates are a mix of many factors. One of the biggest factors in Asia is that there was already a very large amount of cross-immunity from SARS-COV-1 years ago.
So in any way that Japan is doing better is really an historical artefact of past epidemics not proof that masks and distancing do anything. They didn't with SARS-COV-1 and they don't now.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
Translation: Whatevs. I'm still right. OU Sucks! Hook'em!!!!! We're gonna kick their *** next time!
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
You're applying a metric that no medical professional has ever claimed, that masks eliminate the possibility of Covid spread. They've alway been billed as a tool to limit the spread which your chart and other data shows. Furthermore, Japan never shut down through the Pandemic. They eliminated travel from outside the country but internally businesses operated as normal.
I'm not saying there aren't other factors but you need to stretch real hard to build any argument that masks weren't a factor in the success of many countries in Asia fighting Covid.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
The government also restricts hospitals and medical equipment/resources through Certificate Of Need laws. It's a big mess.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
The Randomized Clinical Trials performed around mask performance showed that they don't work. The gold standard for medical studies showed it multiple times. There are some multi-vari studies that showed a positive effect, but there were issues around the timeframe used and the inability of studies of that nature to truly isolate the mask factor.
Your comments about Japan further show you aren't considering those factors. You claimed MASKS were the reason Japan was doing so well. But medical reports have been available since Spring 2020 talking about cross-immunity. Shoot, there are studies from 2013-2016 describing long term cross-immunity in the US. The areas who had been exposed before weren't affected as much. The areas that weren't got hit much worse. Plus there are probably factors we don't even know about. But masks were considered unreliable against respiratory viruses for decades until all of sudden the medial throughout all the previous studies and ignored the new ones.
Logic itself proves that one of the biggest claims that "wearing a mask doesn't protect you it protects others" is a complete lie. The fact is when you exhale the air goes out the sides. Even assuming that masks filter out virus, they don't filter exhalation at all. So if you sit in a room with someone for 15 minutes you are breathing their air. Plus it is an aerosol so you are breathing in exhaled virus from whoever was in that room the whole day.
It is interesting. From the article (seen below), that means roughly 8% denied. Next interesting would be the stats on why 340 granted and why 36 denied.
"As of Thursday, the WSU system had granted 340 of 436 religious exemption requests for the five physical campuses, while 36 were denied and 60 were still being processed, according to Weiler. In a news conference, neither Chun nor Schulz, were explicit on whether Rolovich's religious exemption was denied, though Fahling's news release said it was."
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
How this...
was translated to this...is confusing.
I clearly said that it's a factor yet you stated I said it's the factor. Frustrating. This is the "straw man" I reference often. It's as if some on this board want to attack some progressive stick figure and insert Seattlehusker.
You and I both know that we could each find several studies that support our viewpoint on masks. Not sure we'll convince anyone to change their minds but know that your viewpoint that "mask performance showed that they don't work" is your analysis and not consistent with the medical community. Heck, you're advocating for the reversal of decades (century?) of medical practice regarding masks.
We're back to if masks aren't 100% effective then they are not effective at all? Please go on regarding logic.
was translated to this...is confusing.
I clearly said that it's a factor yet you stated I said it's the factor. Frustrating. This is the "straw man" I reference often. It's as if some on this board want to attack some progressive stick figure and insert Seattlehusker.
You and I both know that we could each find several studies that support our viewpoint on masks. Not sure we'll convince anyone to change their minds but know that your viewpoint that "mask performance showed that they don't work" is your analysis and not consistent with the medical community. Heck, you're advocating for the reversal of decades (century?) of medical practice regarding masks.
We're back to if masks aren't 100% effective then they are not effective at all? Please go on regarding logic.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
It hasn't been clear on why exemptions were denied but one can assume the previous history around taking vaccines would likely be considered. I suspect that the committee also considered whether accommodations are applicable to that specific job. For example, the janitor with an exemption request could be accommodated by moving them to a night shift when facilities are closed. The professor could be limited to virtual classes. A football coach? It's an impossible job to do without direct interaction with dozens of athletes, staff and add in-home recruiting which is the lifeblood of a program and accommodations aren't feasible. Rolovich's lawyer acquiesced that point.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
I recognize your point. But you said it was A factor after you had already said it was THE factor in a response to me. You didn't say, "Japan is doing great because of masks, A, B, andC." You said it was because of masks. Then you backtracked. Now we agree.
My studies are RCTs which are considered the most reliable. The studies people use to claim that masks work are not. They don't isolate the mask factor as well as RCTs.
If the medical community is now going against RCTs that is on them. They changed their practice based on something else rather than science.
Decades of medial practice regarding masks? No doctor recommended wearing a mask for a respiratory disease prior to 2020. I know I read the November 2019 CDC epidemic guidelines among other things. It was people like Fauci and yourself who have reversed themselves. That should be obvious and uncontroversial.
If 0% effective means not effective then, yes. Any room you have walked into in the last 18 months is full of the exhale of all the people who had been in there that day. That means 0% as shown by the RCTs.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
I didn't backtrack. I just didn't feel I needed to put in obvious caveats. Evidently we operate in a world of absolutism. Hold one while I update my signature to include a social media version of Terms of Service.
As a caveat to anything I ever express on the West Mall. There is no single solution nor single symptom of any problem. The world and it's problems are gray and always require multi-faceted solutions that often have unintended side-effects.
OK. So you are on record that no mask ever has been effective at restricting the spread of a virus or pathogens. No surgical mask (KN95), no mask ever, right? Just want to see how far your absolutism goes.
Last edited:
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
This is what I said. Read carefully.
Here is what you said. Read carefully.
Then when I brought up other factors, here is what you said.
You backtracked buddy. Live with it.
Here is what you said. Read carefully.
Then when I brought up other factors, here is what you said.
You backtracked buddy. Live with it.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
I haven't seen evidence that makes me conclude that any masks are effective in preventing a respiratory, aerosolized virus.
I work for a company that makes the world's best N95 masks. You know what they print on the front of them?
"Not For Respiratory Protection"
You know why they print that there? Because they (we) know if we market them as protection we can get sued because we don't have data to support that claim.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
So you interpreted this statement...
As an absolutist statement? You do realize that masks can be effective while working in tandem with other factors right?
Those who keep bringing up past history of 'taking vaccines' always seem to ignore how sparse those requirements were 50 years ago AND that those vaccines actually had fragments of whatever the vaccination was designed to address which ENABLED the immune system to actually build immunity. The current nonsense does none of that...and certainly does not require what seems will be a never-ending supply of booster shots.
The 'you had to be vaxxed to go to school' crowd never looks at the fact that adults are not being held to the same standard that might apply to a kid entering school now. Guess that gets in the way of the propaganda though...
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
Mean what you say and say what you mean. I can't read your mind.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Yet you wrote what you wrote after I cited masks as a factor twice. Clearly even saying what I mean isn't enough to fit the straw man you are responding to.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
That isn't correct. I was holding your feet to the fire on your original statement. You were really squirming so I had to hold tightly.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
What's not correct? That is exactly the flow of the thread. I made a statement, later expanded on it and then you later want to claim I made an absolutist remark originally after it was clear what I intended? That's not "holding (anyones) feet to the fire" but rather trolling because it was clear what I meant. Thank you for self identifying as a troll. I'll put that opinion in the same place your claim that masks are 0% effective, ever, in limiting and respiratory illness spread. It's the antithesis of logic. Ignorance masquerading as intellect.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Awww...did you feel targeted?
Guess somehow, despite the moving of goalposts, a blind hog found an acorn...
Rather amazing how quickly you got chirpy after a simple graphic.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
I didn't ask for or invite your feigned concern. You are the one that took an image with no text and believed it was all about you.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Oh look...another deliberate thread derail from Husker, also coming across as a veiled personal attack. I am shocked..oh wait, no I'm not...it is just another day ending in Y.
Back to the topic, Rolovich will wind up with quite the payday when the dust settles, with the payment further putting the university into deficit mode.
Back to the topic, Rolovich will wind up with quite the payday when the dust settles, with the payment further putting the university into deficit mode.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
I'm sorry. I thought you wanted attention since you jumped into a conversation you weren't a party in then proceeded to claim your gif wasn't intended exactly as it was intended. So, I was giving you affirmation. Was there a different affirmation you'd like? Happy to oblige. Personal attack? I haven't levied any epithets at you. I'm hoping to assuage your anger, give you some positive attaboys.
I tend to value legal advice on this board from other lawyers a bit more. Of course, it all depends on how much WSU simply wants Rolo to go away or will they fight. Of course, this case may have significant ramifications for ~1,400 Washington State employees that chose to retire or were fired so there may be significant incentive to fight Rolo as far as his pocketbook will take him.
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