Post Right Wing looniness here

[Seattle Husker]

Families are different. No one should be harmed or judged.

That's the point. If you think you can simply say "families are different" and move on then you've likely never had children.

 

[Mr. Deez]

That's the point. If you think you can simply say "families are different" and move on then you've likely never had children.

There is a point at which a teacher can end a discussion though if he or she wants to. Case in point. When I was in fifth grade, I attended a Christian school, and it included Bible study in its curriculum. The teacher was discussing the Abrahamic covenant of circumcision. My stupid hand went up, and I asked the obvious question, because I honestly didn't know what circumcision was. (Nobody snickered or laughed when I asked, so I don't think anyone else knew either.) Did the teacher feel obligated to say, "well Little Deez, your parents didn't explain this to you, but your junk likely doesn't look like it did when you were first born." No. Without hesitation, she said, "ask your father" and moved on.

Obviously she could have answered the question, but she felt that she would have been be stepping on my parents' toes to get into that. I actually think she could have justified explaining it to a point, but she erred on the side of deferring to my parents. I don't see why a teacher can't do the same thing on questions of sexuality and other issues of limited relevance to an elementary school curriculum.

 

[mb227]

For those who actually want to READ HB1557, the engrossed version is linked.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/e1/PDF

I suspect too many have never even taken the time to read the whole seven page thing. Instead, they screech based on the Xi-N-N or MSDNC talking points du jour.

Perhaps if the teachers unions had not insisted on indoctrinating and grooming elementary school kids with such increasing frequency, this legislation would not be necessary.

If some PNW individuals don't like it, then they can stay the hell out of Florida.

 

[bystander]

I don't trust teachers to stay within whatever boundaries may exist when it comes to social issues.

Why can't we just focus on not bullying people or judging people? Does every question need to be answered?

Take the race theory; is it to bludgeon children with more historical horrors? Is it to compound the illustrations of lynching and the like with accusations of racism aimed squarely at white children?

Who controls the message in the classroom?

 

[Facing Addiction]

Thanks MB for posting that. This is what the bill says (see below). Seems pretty reasonable to me. It doesn't even rule out answering a question, just classroom instruction. Although I concur that the teacher should punt to the parents, which is what most of this bill addresses, parental rights in schools.

And yes I agree that if someone is pushing for "classroom instruction" of ANY sex education for 4-8 year olds, that's definitely not right.

3. Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.

 

[nashhorn]

Hmmm, whatever. I kinda like her.

 

[OUBubba]

Thanks MB for posting that. This is what the bill says (see below). Seems pretty reasonable to me. It doesn't even rule out answering a question, just classroom instruction. Although I concur that the teacher should punt to the parents, which is what most of this bill addresses, parental rights in schools.

And yes I agree that if someone is pushing for "classroom instruction" of ANY sex education for 4-8 year olds, that's definitely not right.

That is not objectionable language.

 

[Seattle Husker]

The sponsor of the bill seems to think simply talking about homosexuality is encouraging kids to come out as "gay".

 

[nashhorn]

The sponsor of the bill seems to think simply talking about homosexuality is encouraging kids to come out as "gay".

Actually SH to a younger child I can see that to be true.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Actually SH to a younger child I can see that to be true.

I have 2 gay 1st cousins, 1 male 1 female. Both grew up in Western Nebraska before it was OK to be gay. It was clear as day both were homosexual in elementary school. When visiting my grandmother my male cousin preferred to play dolls with my sister (7yrs younger than him) rather than do more masculine things with me like ride the 4wheeler around he farm or shoot crows with the .22. To this day my cousin is 50yrs old and still hasn't come out of the closet rather he's had a "roommate" for 20+ years. Why? My Roman Catholic grandmother would roll over in her grave at the acknowledgement of his homosexuality. My female cousin didn't come out until college. She specifically had a lot of trauma in coming out that likely impacts her to this day.

Life is a journey to figure out who we are. From my experience, helping my 2 cousins more quickly realize how they were built would have saved them later anguish.

I'm not advocating teaching "gay" but have a disdain for any attempt to hide the existence the LGBTQ community. It's simply another attempt to prevent people from coming out.

 

[mb227]

I have 2 gay 1st cousins, 1 male 1 female. Both grew up in Western Nebraska before it was OK to be gay. It was clear as day both were homosexual in elementary school. When visiting my grandmother my male cousin preferred to play dolls with my sister (7yrs younger than him) rather than do more masculine things with me like ride the 4wheeler around he farm or shoot crows with the .22. To this day my cousin is 50yrs old and still hasn't come out of the closet rather he's had a "roommate" for 20+ years. Why? My Roman Catholic grandmother would roll over in her grave at the acknowledgement of his homosexuality. My female cousin didn't come out until college. She specifically had a lot of trauma in coming out that likely impacts her to this day.

Life is a journey to figure out who we are. From my experience, helping my 2 cousins more quickly realize how they were built would have saved them later anguish.

I'm not advocating teaching "gay" but have a disdain for any attempt to hide the existence the LGBTQ community. It's simply another attempt to prevent people from coming out.

In MY day, girls like that were just called tomboys. Parents allowed kids to just be kids. Being rough and tumble didn't mean a girl was going to be lesbian later in life. And I can guaran-goddam-tee you that nobody was discussing the issue in elementary school. Kids were just allowed to be kids.

Now, you have parents being told that such actions are absolutely indications that the kid is twans and that medical intervention is a must or the kid will be committing suicide. The enforcement of gender stereotypes upon kids HAS to stop. The Münchhausen by proxy ALSO has to stop...

 

[nashhorn]

Like it MB.

Kids were just allowed to be kids.

Those were the days, as the saying goes.

 

[HornHuskerDad]

Kids were just allowed to be kids.

And in school, we were taught academic material - reading, 'riting, 'rithmetic - and it seemed to prepare us pretty well for life.

 

[OUBubba]

And in school, we were taught academic material - reading, 'riting, 'rithmetic - and it seemed to prepare us pretty well for life.

Look at who we keep electing. Maybe we could have learned something different.

 

[guy4321]

Gov. Ron DeSantis' spokesperson claims those that are against Parental Rights of Education Bill (aka #DontSayGay) are pedophiles or at least pedophile-adjacent. This law which has passed the FL House forbids any classroom discussion of sexual orientation in primary grade levels and allows parents to sue the schools.

Curious if you or Mr. Smith got upset when AOC said Trump was running concentration camps along the border with Mexico.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Curious if you or Mr. Smith got upset when AOC said Trump was running concentration camps along the border with Mexico.

I 100% thought that was inappropriate and likely referenced Godwin's Law. I didn't agree with the way the border was being handled but any reference to Nazi Germany is a sign of a weak argument no matter which side of the political spectrum it's being sourced.

 

[Monahorns]

That's the point. If you think you can simply say "families are different" and move on then you've likely never had children.

OMG are you so wrong on all fronts

 

[Seattle Husker]

OMG are you so wrong on all fronts

OK. Tested my statement on my wife who is a teacher, has taught 1st, 2nd and 3rd grades and she says I'm right. Got that going for me I guess.

 

[Monahorns]

OK. Tested my statement on my wife who is a teacher, has taught 1st, 2nd and 3rd grades and she says I'm right. Got that going for me I guess.

That just means she agrees with all these grooming activities. Discussing sexual identity to 3rd graders and younger? That's some Darth Vader come to the dark side level junk.

 

[OUBubba]

Grooming? This is why we can’t have nice things.

 

[Monahorns]

Yes you are right, because of Democrat voting groomers.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Grooming? This is why we can’t have nice things.

Per some on this board kids are incapable of recognizing differences and for those that are all discussions of said differences should be constrained to the parents. Of course, in the next breath conservatives will lament the deterioration of "parenting", especially in inner city families.

If schools could go back to just being schools that would be great. This seems to be a desire to reversing the clocks to 1970. Legislation without a viable time machine doesn't work.

 

[nashhorn]

Actually at a very young age kids are unable to distinguish differences. Things like race and gender don’t matter to them. You know sorta like “else we become as little children”.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Actually at a very young age kids are unable to distinguish differences. Things like race and gender don’t matter to them. You know sorta like “else we become as little children”.

Kids are absolutely less aware than teenagers and adults. To assume they aren't curious at why their lesbian teacher has a wife assumes a naivety that my 3 sons didn't have.

In reality, I think this is just another attempt to fire up the socially conservative base over a "nit" issue. Believe it or not, teachers don't typically want to address social issues either but not all classes, all children, all communities are the same. If Johny wears a dress to school one day because his parents support him that teacher might not have a choice. In Florida, that teacher can soon be sued.

 

[mb227]

That just means she agrees with all these grooming activities. Discussing sexual identity to 3rd graders and younger? That's some Darth Vader come to the dark side level junk.

We know you are correct given that two of the most prominent libtiles who support the groomers pooped the post.

 

[mb227]

Kids are absolutely less aware than teenagers and adults. To assume they aren't curious at why their lesbian teacher has a wife assumes a naivety that my 3 sons didn't have.

In MY day, elementary school teachers were not discussing their spouses or families in class, and even those who had kids in the same school took great pains to keep work and family separate.

Believe it or not, teachers don't typically want to address social issues either but not all classes, all children, all communities are the same. If Johny wears a dress to school one day because his parents support him that teacher might not have a choice. In Florida, that teacher can soon be sued.

Tell us you STILL have not read the seven-page Bill without telling us you STILL have not read the seven-page Bill.

It was even linked in these forums...

 

[Monahorns]

Kids are absolutely less aware than teenagers and adults. To assume they aren't curious at why their lesbian teacher has a wife assumes a naivety that my 3 sons didn't have.

Why would a student know a teacher has a wife? If it comes out in normal conversation, all it takes is a statement that people are different and some choose to marry the same sex. I don't think anyone is against that.

But I have seen videos of teachers proudly saying they use class time to go into the detail of their sexual identity. They also say they seek the support of their students for their identity. That is beyond acceptable.

In reality, I think this is just another attempt to fire up the socially conservative base over a "nit" issue. Believe it or not, teachers don't typically want to address social issues either but not all classes, all children, all communities are the same. If Johny wears a dress to school one day because his parents support him that teacher might not have a choice. In Florida, that teacher can soon be sued.

Social conservatives didn't start the push of our culture to sexual immorality. We still lament no fault divorce laws and gay marriage. It is the Left that is on a continual jihad to push sexual culture farther and farther. When the Right pushes back just a tad, people like you scream blood murder. "Oh how dare you push back!" "Kids are going to commit suicide!" "You right wing extremists discriminate against LGBTQ!" "These people want a theocracy!" "These theocrats want to ban the word 'gay'!"

Where in the Florida law does it say a teacher can be sued if a boy wears a dress to school?

Also, how many times in the history of America has a boy worn a dress to school? If there have been any occurrences have the rates changed over time? If rates have increased over time, there is your evidence for grooming.

 

[Seattle Husker]

But I have seen videos of teachers proudly saying they use class time to go into the detail of their sexual identity. They also say they seek the support of their students for their identity. That is beyond acceptable.

I'd love to see the videos if you have links.

Social conservatives didn't start the push of our culture to sexual immorality. We still lament no fault divorce laws and gay marriage. It is the Left that is on a continual jihad to push sexual culture farther and farther. When the Right pushes back just a tad, people like you scream blood murder. "Oh how dare you push back!" "Kids are going to commit suicide!" "You right wing extremists discriminate against LGBTQ!" "These people want a theocracy!" "These theocrats want to ban the word 'gay'!"

Your bias reinforces my point. Not sure you intended that but claiming "sexual immorality" and admitting resistance to gay marriage demonstrates why this particular issue resonates with you. For someone who claims to be resistant to government intervention it sounds like that doesn't apply to socially conservative issues that matter to you.

 

[Monahorns]

Your bias reinforces my point. Not sure you intended that but claiming "sexual immorality" and admitting resistance to gay marriage demonstrates why this particular issue resonates with you. For someone who claims to be resistant to government intervention it sounds like that doesn't apply to socially conservative issues that matter to you.

I am Bible believing Christian. So I am biased towards what it says. Not ashamed of that.

Public schools are intervention in education. Having public schools training our children how to think about sexuality is government intervention in child raising/parenting. I simply don't want the government training my children on morality. I am being consistent.

 

[Seattle Husker]

I am Bible believing Christian. So I am biased towards what it says. Not ashamed of that.

Not asking you to be ashamed of that but also recognize it shapes your desire for government intervention and runs directly counter to your espoused libertarian claims.

Public schools are intervention in education. Having public schools training our children how to think about sexuality is government intervention in child raising/parenting. I simply don't want the government training my children on morality. I am being consistent.

That ship has sailed. Society long ago abdicated parental responsibility in many instances to schools, sadly. Discipline, home economics, sexual education are all areas where schools have become the backstop to train our children. Not saying it's right but rather its the way it is.

My bias is shaped from being married to a teacher, my own children and my own experiences. I also have a personal philosophy of assuming positive intent until proven otherwise. Using charged language like "grooming" for teachers that are simply trying to do the job to the best of their ability and clearly not trying to turn any child "gay" is an abhorrent abuse of language.