Post Left Wing looniness here

This is all true of course. My point is that the Nazi party existed to react and defeat communists. Without communism and the debauchery of the Weimar Republic which fed it, I don' think there would have been a Nazi party. The goal of the German Reich and the racial ideology all served the purpose of creating a state that could stand against communism foreign and domestic. Same thing with fascism in Spain and Italy, except they didn't have the weird racial views, as far as I know.

It's a complex question, and there were a lot of factors. Certainly the communists were a huge part of it, and the Red Front fighters were almost as big of troublemakers as the SA was. Their reputation was even worse. However, the German economy was also in horrifically bad shape especially on the inflation front, and the people were humiliated by and massively pissed off about the Versailles Treaty (and rightly so). They wanted radical change that got the economy under control and restored national pride, and the Weimar leaders has blown their credibility on both priorities. So my guess is that Hitler or somebody like him was coming to power either way - even without the communism factor, as big as it was.
 
Mr D
The Treaty of Versailles was not as big a factor in Germany's economic woes as Hitler cleverly stoked anger in the people to believe.
 
Someone suggested a bill be introduced that swaps the words for one another. Make it a hate crime to criticize white people that influences non whites to commit acts against white people.
A HR 61 .20
 
Mona yes why shouldn't they? They destroyed France. Even at that the amount to be paid was watered down significantly. France had to sue in the 30s to get money . Sounds like Germany didn't pay.
And weren't they still trying to get reparations not long ago?
 
So Someone suggested a bill be introduced that swaps the words for one another. Make it a hate crime to criticize white people that influences non whites to commit acts against white people.
A HR 61 .20
 
Mr D
The Treaty of Versailles was not as big a factor in Germany's economic woes as Hitler cleverly stoked anger in the people to believe.

Hitler put some blame on the Treaty, which he hated and exploited. However, by the time the Nazis were serious political players (around 1930), he was mostly blaming the Weimar leadership (whom he called the "November criminals" for supposedly stabbing the country in the back by overthrowing the Kaiser and signing the Armistice) at the time for incompetence and corruption.

Were the reparations the only factor in the hyperinflation of the early '20s? No. They also had a lot of war debt, and the government was not fiscally responsible. However, the reparations were big money, and they caused a lot of instability. Hell, France ended up invading Germany to enforce them at one point.
 
I wonder what the actual amount Germany paid to France. I know Germany was still making payments in 2010

I'm not totally sure. It was a big point of contention throughout the 1920s with defaults that led to invasions and all sorts of unrest.

Obviously, I despise the Nazis, but we have to recognize that the Allies did everything they could to antagonize and humiliate Germany after WWI, which enabled and created opportunities for the Nazis to build public support and gain power. And then when the Nazis came to power, we didn't have the balls to stop them until they had built the Wehrmacht into a massive and well-run war machine that was rampaging all over Europe.

We handled post-WWII much better. We imposed guilt on Germany and made them pay for some of the damage they caused, but we also offered them economic support, investment, and protection from the Soviet Union. Instead of just taking a piss on their face every chance we got, we extended a hand of reconciliation. It definitely paid off.
 
How much did the 14 points influence the original treaty?

It influenced it as well as other post-WWI treaties for sure, especially the territorial changes. Germany lost the Alsace-Lorraine to France (undoing the Franco-Prussian War of about 50 years earlier). Germany lost some of its eastern provinces to Poland. Belgium was evacuated of foreign powers. Italy was given land from Austria, which never made sense and still doesn't. The Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires were broken up, and non-Turks, non-Austrians, and non-Hungarians were allowed to form their own states (sorta). Obviously, the inept League of Nations was formed from the 14th points. Arms controls were imposed, albeit selectively.

However, there were things in the treaty that clearly didn't follow the 14 points. There was nothing in the 14 points about imposing reparations or explicit war guilt on Germany. That made the Allies look like dishonest frauds, and it gave more credence to the German nationalists who claimed that the revolutionary government that overthrew the Kaiser and signed the armistice and the treaties were a bunch of criminals who had betrayed their country as it was winning a war. I say "nationalists," because it was much more than just Nazis who alleged this. It was also monarchists, the military establishment (including Hindenburg), and other conservatives - basically everybody but communists and social democrats. It was a mainstream view.
 
YUCK!!!!! :puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:

What the hell is wrong with you, Deez? I can't ever unsee that.

FmrOt2KXEAAEgYY
 
Jeez, Mr. Deez. That looks like my ex-wife! (Kidding - not divorced and the current wife looks GOOD.)

Also, I was joking about the imam comment, but thanks for the history discussion, everyone.
 
Did she really think she wouldn't get caught?
Or not care since the election was over?
I hope someone exposes how many teachers& students participated.
 
Did she really think she wouldn't get caught?
Or not care since the election was over?
I hope someone exposes how many teachers& students participated.

She doesn't care. She is probably one of the most arrogant Liberals around and that's saying something.
 
This time the citizens deserve what they are getting.
Yes out of towners will get car javked etc but I bet the lions share of these crimes are committed on citizens of DC.
 

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