Netanyahu Schooled Obama on the Middle East ...

[borna_horn]

I have to say I am surprised at how little Gaza gets mentioned in all of this. Israel did everything they are supposedly refusing to do. It withdrew completely and dismantled all settlements. What it got in return was a terrorist state bent on perpetual war with Israel. Can you imagine such a scenario miles from Israel's major population centers? What country would ever take such a risk in the face of such overwhelming evidence that it will backfire?

 

[Shark4]

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[borna_horn]

Finally read that Juan Cole article. Obviously biased, misinformed and misleading, though it is true that much of the Israeli right, if left unchecked, would have annexed the West Bank by now.

As usual with anti-Israeli articles, it wholly ignores the reality of the Arab war against Israel and the continuing war of terrorism by Palestinian groups dedicated to Israel's destruction. That is why people such as myself have to inform nimrods like this author of the continuous real threat that the Jews have faced before and after the creation of Israel. And it is not, as this nimrod claims, simple fear. It is reality. The destruction of Israel and use of suicide murder of Jews is the platform of Hamas.

This following paragraph was particularly disgusting and insulting to the intelligence:

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[borna_horn]

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[WhitmanSampler]

I guess you've been listening to Krauthammer too, Shark. It is astonishing how the propoganda flies in every direction (I am by no means a Palestinian appologist; they have played the propaganda game like champs) whenever Israel and the mideast are the topic. When Bush was president, the same Israel hardliners who are proclaiming that "the United States gave its word that it would not require Israel to return to the pre-1967 borders in future negotiations" were saying that Bush betrayed Israel because he made statements very similar to those of Obama. The Link

Bush actually said:
"As I said last April, new realities on the ground make it unrealistic to expect that the outcome of final status negotiations will be a full and complete return to the armistice lines of 1949. It is realistic to expect that any final status agreement will be achieved only on the basis of mutually agreed changes that reflect these realities."

"A viable two-state solution must ensure contiguity of the West Bank, and a state of scattered territories will not work. There must also be meaningful linkages between the West Bank and Gaza. This is the position of the United States today; it will be the position of the United States at the time of the final status negotiations."

Your statement that the US "gave its word" for something different than Obama posited is not supported by the record.

Moreover, what "borders" are you talking about? Obama said that borders should be based upon the 1967 armistice lines. To call these lines borders and to lie about the president saying that Israel must return to them is disingenuous. To say that the US "gave its word" that the armistice lines would not be the basis for future negotiations to determine borders is likewise disingenuous.

And Shark, why do you recast Obamas words? Does "based upon, with mutually agreed swaps" mean "return to 1967 'borders'" in your gramatical universe?

 

[2003TexasGrad]

Borna,

The census figures show that there were at least 10 times as many Arabs than Jews. It is true that there were more Jews that had/were immigrating to that area, but even in 1948 there again considerably more Arabs than Jews. And the Balfour Declaration would not have passed in Britain without intense lobbying in the US for US support. The British would not have passed it without the US giving its support. And furthermore, there was a UN vote to approve the creation of Israel, and there was intense lobbying from the US to get enough votes for it to pass. Israel was not created by Arab aggression or by war.

 

[borna_horn]

2003,

Under the UN partition plan, was the land allotted for a Jewish state majority Jewish or wasn't it? You seem to be dancing around this issue by pretending that all of former Palestine was given to the Jews. It wasn't. Not in1947 and not even in 2011.

How was Israel created? You tell me. The fact that the UN partition plan was rejected by the Arabs in favor of war seems lost on you. How can the UN plan have any effect if both sides don't agree? Do you understand the concept of mediation? The UN plan was a failed attempt at mediation. The Arabs chose war. Do you deny this fact?

The fact is that Israel unilaterally declared independence the day the British Mandate ended on lands that were majority Jewish. That is a fact. There was no agreement with the Arabs. The Arab armies attacked the next day. They decided to settle the issue through war! That decision rendered the UN plan moot. Can you not see that?