Kavanaugh's SC Confirmation Hearings
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Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
In a week. The FBI will need another week or 2 at least to investigate something, anything regardless of what they learn in the next week, especially if they find nothing new. They will do it because they "believe" Ford and the other accusers.
That's my prediction anyway. The goal is to delay until 2019 just in case they have a Senate majority.
That's my prediction anyway. The goal is to delay until 2019 just in case they have a Senate majority.
4th_floor
Dude, where's my laptop?
What you seem to keep missing is that RBG and other liberals have been confirmed to the court by republican controlled Senates. No one tried to smear RGB or others. And Garland? Garland was not smeared. He simply was not given a hearing, which is the option of the majority party. Nothing immoral, unethical, or illegal in denying Garland a vote. Sorry it hurts your feelings.
4th_floor
Dude, where's my laptop?
If he runs, he will lose in the primary. His friends in the media and in the democrat party will forget how they fawned over him when he is no longer able to back stab republicans. It'll be McCain 2008 all over again.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
He is now and has always been a Dem
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
What are the odds Dems find someone new with a new allegation in this week they just bought?
How long before they are saying one week is not long enough?
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Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
I think Flake stipulated that for him the FBI Investigation should be limited to allegations we know about now,
No telling what will happen with the dems but hopefully it will be limited
edit to add
Would this include the man who said he was the one who might have been with the accuser in a bedroom and has been interviewed several times by the committee?
No telling what will happen with the dems but hopefully it will be limited
edit to add
Would this include the man who said he was the one who might have been with the accuser in a bedroom and has been interviewed several times by the committee?
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Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Bent over backwards? Giving Dr. Ford a platform to tell her story was admirable. They even delayed any hearing for a week to ensure she could meet in person in DC. This process hasn't been about fact finding though. If it was they would have involved the FBI immediately to remove the partisan bias. They would have subpoenaed the other witness rather than simply taking affidavits. Nobody was questioned except Ford and Kavanaugh. The Republican committee assured the process ended up a he said - she said result. Now the FBI can do their investigation. I'll accept their results even if they are inconclusive. At least then we can take the politics out.
It strains credibility to on one hand claim R leaders "bent over backwards" while the facts are that leaders were on record claiming they were planning their vote which effectively meant it didn't matter what either party stated in that hearing. They also fought any non-partisan investigation.
Horns11
10,000+ Posts
RBG was confirmed by a Democratic Senate before the 1994 red wave. But I'll go ahead and ask it again: with what do you "smear" RBG? Sotomayor? Kagan? If you have the goods, and choose not to use them and "allow" a nominee to take a seat, does that give the GOP some kind of moral high ground, or are you grasping at straws over the indignation that a different nominee might have a past? Was Gorsuch accused of drunk groping? I think the worst anyone accused him of was plagiarism.
I've already said that I agree Garland was not smeared. The major premise of everyone standing up for the "easygoing" process that the GOP typically gives Democratic nominees is that they stand for rule of law and wouldn't dare stoop to criticize the nominee's past. You picked your adjectives well. I'd say denying him a vote is unprecedented, using the measuring stick of "does court stuff well."
Other GOP nominees had their own reasons for never getting a vote. Miers was unqualified and knew that she would have her WH counsel stuff dug up if she didn't withdraw herself. Ginsburg because of the weed. Nixon was forced to back off of his friends because the ABA told him that the Senate committee wouldn't even consider either person, but not because he had "only a year left" in his presidency.
SH
UH There were 2 witnesses each of whom said they did not remember any such incident
You want the dude. named Judge to be subpoenaed but you keep forgetting to ask why the other named witness, the accusers good female friend.Leland Keyser
you know the one who gave a sworn statement through her attorney;
"“Simply put, Ms. Keyser does not know Mr. Kavanaugh and she has no recollection of ever being at a party or gathering where he was present, with, or without, Dr. Ford,” the attorney wrote".
Edit to ask
did you think the accuser corroborated anything from her vague story?
UH There were 2 witnesses each of whom said they did not remember any such incident
You want the dude. named Judge to be subpoenaed but you keep forgetting to ask why the other named witness, the accusers good female friend.Leland Keyser
you know the one who gave a sworn statement through her attorney;
"“Simply put, Ms. Keyser does not know Mr. Kavanaugh and she has no recollection of ever being at a party or gathering where he was present, with, or without, Dr. Ford,” the attorney wrote".
Edit to ask
did you think the accuser corroborated anything from her vague story?
The Old Testament states “a lone witness is not sufficient to establish any wrongdoing or sin against a man, regardless of what offense he may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.” Thousands of years ago, a group of former slaves living in tents and wandering the desert were aware that convicting someone based on one accuser was wrong. Why? Because PEOPLE (men, women, young, old, rich, poor, black, white, etc) lie. It is a universal truth across all groups. All groups have the same propensity for lying. Some people are very good at it and fool everyone. The ones best at it become congressmen. 
I have to say I am against the FBI investigation because it seems to be a complete waste of time. I do not know what they can possible investigate. She cannot say when or where it happened. The only people she can name deny or do not remember the event. This is not the sort of thing the FBI generally investigates or is their area of expertise either.
I was against Kavanaugh due to the fact he is only moderately conservative judicially. However, that circus yesterday was wrong. That was like something you would see Joseph McCarthy, a communist kangaroo court, a fascist kangeroo court, or a French Revolutionary Tribunal from the Reign of Terror do. It was sickening and unbecoming of any country that believes in the rule of law. I am all for rape victims getting help and full punishment coming to rapists (so much so that I support the death penalty for rape), but yesterday the #metoo movement jumped the shark.
Since Kavanaugh is qualified and the party in control of the senate would otherwise confirm him, he deserves to be confirmed and this circus needs to end. His accuser after being given the opportunity to testify and ample opportunity in general (35+ years of it) has presented no corroborating evidence that can justify any further time spent on her claim. Kavanaugh has been investigated to such an extent that his yearbook has been publicly picked apart including direct questioning of him regarding flatulence references. Nothing in these extensive investigations justifies any more time being spent on this.
If Ford’s accusations are true and unverifiable, I am truly sorry and that is an injustice. However, history is clear that injustice due to assumption of guilt is far greater than injustice due to presumption of innocence. All that ultimately follows a lack of presumption of innocence is death, suffering and human misery. This needs to end and a vote should be held Monday.
To those that say “if someone is innocent, they have nothing to hide and should welcome an investigation”, I suggest you read up on the Gestapo, Stassi, etc and understand why our founding fathers gave us a 4th Amendment requiring probable cause for an investigation.
I have to say I am against the FBI investigation because it seems to be a complete waste of time. I do not know what they can possible investigate. She cannot say when or where it happened. The only people she can name deny or do not remember the event. This is not the sort of thing the FBI generally investigates or is their area of expertise either.
I was against Kavanaugh due to the fact he is only moderately conservative judicially. However, that circus yesterday was wrong. That was like something you would see Joseph McCarthy, a communist kangaroo court, a fascist kangeroo court, or a French Revolutionary Tribunal from the Reign of Terror do. It was sickening and unbecoming of any country that believes in the rule of law. I am all for rape victims getting help and full punishment coming to rapists (so much so that I support the death penalty for rape), but yesterday the #metoo movement jumped the shark.
Since Kavanaugh is qualified and the party in control of the senate would otherwise confirm him, he deserves to be confirmed and this circus needs to end. His accuser after being given the opportunity to testify and ample opportunity in general (35+ years of it) has presented no corroborating evidence that can justify any further time spent on her claim. Kavanaugh has been investigated to such an extent that his yearbook has been publicly picked apart including direct questioning of him regarding flatulence references. Nothing in these extensive investigations justifies any more time being spent on this.
If Ford’s accusations are true and unverifiable, I am truly sorry and that is an injustice. However, history is clear that injustice due to assumption of guilt is far greater than injustice due to presumption of innocence. All that ultimately follows a lack of presumption of innocence is death, suffering and human misery. This needs to end and a vote should be held Monday.
To those that say “if someone is innocent, they have nothing to hide and should welcome an investigation”, I suggest you read up on the Gestapo, Stassi, etc and understand why our founding fathers gave us a 4th Amendment requiring probable cause for an investigation.
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Since the majority of people have read, seen or are at least familiar with “To Kill a Mockingbird”, I can only conclude that most do not get the message that assuming guilt based on personal biases instead of facts is wrong. Condemning anyone unjustly and without evidence due to personal bias does not somehow become less wrong just because it is not being done by 1950s white southerners against a black man.
Even *if* what she says is true, he felt her up is about the worst you could say. Thats not a crime. You cannot charge anyone for what she feared would happen. Still, I think she is full of crap. I am very disappointed the Reps are giving in like this.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Hard to see them actually going along with that part
Except they didn't when they did the background check for this nomination.
It's times like this that the fallacy of moral equivalence becomes so transparent. Yes, Republicans are not perfect and often times are full of crap (deficit spending and immigration come to mind). But they have never done anything like the disgusting display that we just witnessed. The Dems on the judiciary committee are just horrible people through and through.
The problem as I see it as an airline pilot is that no matter if the FBI's further checks and interviews reveal no evidence whatsoever to support the allegations, it won't be enough for Dems. they will say the FBI was rushed by having the one week limit placed upon them. Or liberals will say Trump forced the FBI to fall in line. It just won't matter.
Kavanaugh will get confirmed but always have a false cloud over him.
Also, when no new evidence, or more correctly, any evidence, is unearthed, the Dems will blame the Rs for not calling for the FBI investigation earlier and saying the FBI didn't have time, all the while continuing to ignore the fact Feinstein withheld the information knowingly until a politically opportune time.
You mean the black conservative judge being grilled by all those old, white men?
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
as a father of boys in my charge to raise into young men ... I find this completely offensive, but not surprising.
I know you're hurting because Trump is POTUS and moreover has actually governed consistent with conservative philosophy ... but that's no excuse to declare all parents of boys the admonition to act like goons or goblins.
Raise children to be respectful ... and particularly boys to men of girls and women.
Whatever else you think of this fiasco which was orchestrated by the party members you generally support ... shame. This has made a mockery of our Fed, which is actually what the leftist pursue ... in order to create a tighter/more controlling Fed.
I think, too, this charade has been a base play ... because particularly with the democrats, NOTHING is as it seems ... I don't know assuredly, but believe this is to setup Kavanugh for impeachment if/when the dems regain control of a sufficient portion.
We'll see. At a minimum, Feinstein should be censured. Justice would have her impeached/removed and incarcerated for what she did to this process.
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