It's time

We've all seen the pictures of militia laying in prone positions with guns pointed at the feds. Do you think the feds may have anticipated this based on previous rhetoric from Bundy and Gardner and armed themselves appropriately?

The BLM and local law officials would have been negligent if they didn't protect themselves.
 
This is going in circles now.

You guys need to read the court orders and educate yourselves. This is not difficult.

The government was removing his cattle that was trespassing on government owned land. The cattle was to be sold at auction to pay the amount Bundy owed the government and for the cost of removing them (the removal cost was likely to be more than the cattle are worth). Bundy was ordered in 1998 and then in 2013 to remove his cattle from two different parcels of government land. These orders are public documents signed by real federal judges. He appealed the 1998 order and lost. I do not think he appealed the 2013 order. Bundy has never complied and is a trespasser.

The 2013 order was signed by a judge appointed by none other than St. Ronnie Reagan. This should not be some mystery to any side of this debate and yet mysteriously one side just does not seem to get this or even realize this is the culmination of a long legal dispute that Bundy repeatedly lost. The guy has been trespassing on land in defiance of a court order for six years in one case and almost a year in another. This is not a "good" or "innocent" guy. He is deliberately flaunting two judgments.

Bundy also owes $1.2 million for grazing fees, penalties, and interest. He has never paid. He has been billed and has a judgment that he could pay (the being presented with a bill is ********). His "defense" was to challenge the legitimacy of the federal government in 1998. He lost. He still refuses to pay. He could pay this money into the registry of the federal court or in a Nevada state court (or even the portion he admits he owes), but he has not. He is a thief. There really is not another side to this. Period.

This entire matter is pretty far beyond the tiresome time for me now. The more you educate yourself about Bundy, the less sympathetic he becomes. He is a thief and is probably crazy. He also insists on putting his children and grandchildren at risk and he called in armed militia to escalate this situation. I have zero sympathy or empathy for him of any of his supporters.
 
Funny it got tiresome when you got asked a question you apparently did not want to answer

Paso Do you think it is appropriate for the gov't to send armed men snipers attack dogs and armored vehicles so they can collect 1.2 million?
 
Seattle Husker answered it (and so did I if you read my response).

If the government did this (which I am not sure of), absolutely it was appropriate to protect the government and the cowboys rounding up the cattle from the armed militia brought into this by Bundy. Additionally, Bundy and his family have threatened the government officials.

You guys get everything in this completely backwards I guess because you so desperately want to be the victims of the big bad government.

Just ridiculous.

Bundy should have removed his cattle years ago. This entire matter is all on him.
 
And I hope the next time they bring enough law enforcement so that every last one of these nitwits can be arrested and go in front of the federal judge in Las Vegas.

This is what I want to see.

These people are a pathetic menace to our entire system of laws and rules. They are not heroes, but worthless bullies. Bundy is a taker in the worst way.
 
And once Bundy is taken care of we need to do the same to all the other leeches in our society who do nothing but take sucking the life out of our country. What will we do with them all? I mean if Bundy's million is worth this reaction then what should happen to rid ourselves of those that take a few trillion every year?
 
paso
your timeline might be off.
The Feds started rounding up the cattle on april 05 and there ere no armed militia there then

I have stated Bundy should pay what he legally owes

I am just surprised at your call for all these these people who showed up in support, to be arrested and taken before a federal judge

Does you vehemence extend to ALL people who violate Federal laws?
 
What's lost in alot of this is that this may be some of the worst ranching land in the all of the US. This guy is grazing cattle in a desert. It's no wonder the few hundred acres he owns isn't enough to graze hundreds of cattle. Every picture I've seen show sparse sagebrush in the background. THAT is the reason that ranchers in the area are going bankrupt. They've picked a horrible place to raise cattle. This is why you don't see timber companies in Nebraska.

Horn6721- Would you have an issue if I moved to Colorado and used National forest land to start a timber business without paying for logging rights? Why is this any different?
 
Husker??
What part of " I think Bundy should pay" do You not understand?
Read my posts and stop making up crap.


I hope you realize there is a huge difference between you cutting down trees for your profit and for Bundy to graze on land that even YOU point out is not good for much else.
 
Husker??
so now this land is a valuable resource? 4 posts ago it was, according to you the WORST ranching land in US:
"What's lost in alot of this is that this may be some of the worst ranching land in the all of the US. Every picture I've seen show sparse sagebrush in the background."

Speaking of water rights Bundy apparently put in water lines and tanks as well as some roads, at his own expense. And the BLM people destroyed much of that

But for me that isn't even the issue
The issue is sending that many armed agents helos snipers etc over money owed
Was it really necessary ?

All of you who support doing this do you also support sending armed agents for everyone who violates federal law and owes money?


Mich I have my timeline right. There were NO armed civilian militia when the Feds started their running down and killing the cattle operation
According to the las Vegas paper
"There were no signs of Bundy supporters in the Bunkerville area Saturday, but that doesn’t mean none of them are coming in the days to come"
 
I agree 100% CanaTigers on the rancher sentiment.

The one thing I do expect from the government is to balance profit vs. sustainable land usage in their decision on how to best use the land. Still, maximizing profit is important but not at the expense of longer term strategic use of the land. But if the government feels a solar farm can result in more profit and greater public good than a rancher than I expect them to make the tough decision.
 
Husker
from you
'But if the government feels a solar farm can result in more profit and greater public good than a rancher than I expect them to make the tough decision. "

Sincere question, when did this become about solar farms. Everything the gov't, BLM and Dept of Wildlife etc have said to date is reducing or removing the cattle because of the desert tortoise.
That the BLM felt Bundy's 500 cows on 60,000 acres of the worst ranching land in the USA were going to destroy the desert tortoise habitat.
Oh and also because Bundy has not paid the money the Feds feel he owes
Where did you read that it was now about wind/ solar farms?
 
husker
biggrin.gif
I think we all have a tinfoil hat relative or friend.
I still get emails about ' chemtrails". Remember that? This conspiracy started in the early90's that the gov't was secretly releasing some chemical through chemtrails.

however knowing Reid's connections through his former aide, now at BLM and through his son Rory lobbying for a Chinese firm it isn't that far fetched to think this could ultimately be about that.
I just hadn't read that one
yet
 
Funny, I was chastised for talking about this subject earlier. But, no, it was where Bundy was grazing his cattle or very close to it. I don't think anyone ever said the BLM was trying to get his land like they are talking about taking land along the Red River in Texas. BLM wants private land
 
MrF

Well the gov't's story has changed and changed back again. The attention by the Feds on Bundy began when the desert tortoise became a threatened species and "they' decided Bundy ran too many cattle over the 60,000 acres for the well being of the tortoise. Nevermind that cattle had been grazing there for over a hundred years with apparent little harm to the tortoise.
and never mind that a donor friend of Reid's was allowed to tear up thousands of acres for a gold course and development in the same county. Think any desert tortoise habitats were destroyed?
and then of course the gov't killed off hundreds of the tortoise.
yet early on in the Bundy saga it was still put forth that tis had to be done to save the tortoise
Then it morphed into BY God Bundy is violating federal law by not paying grazing fees and BY god Now the Feds were going to collect it somehow so let's send in hundreds of agents attackk dogs snipers and helos to run to ground cattle. OH? did we kill his bulls and other cattle? Ooops.


MrF
It looks like you were right all along, this DID have to do with money, just not the paltry amount Bundy owed.
 
There are two federal court orders that Bundy is refusing to comply with. The rest of this is right wing blogosphere ********.

Period.
 
Paso
I have said I think Bundy should pay what he is owed

So if a Federal court orders someone to pay what is owed are you ok with federal agents showing up to collect ?
What about if a federal court finds someone has violated federal laws should fed agents enforce the court order?
 
What does that have to do with taking back the land which is what this thread is all about? Only talking about how much Bundy owes and diverting attention away from the BLM is all left-wing ********. I notice there hasn't been any comment made about the link I put up regarding the BLM trying to take land in Texas. And probably without paying for it (again).
 
The BLM stuff on Texas is Brietbart ********. This is a boundary matter that goes back at least 17 years and the BLM has not decided whether to even make a claim over some land (it is being surveyed) or what, if anything, to do if the land is arguably federal. If the BLM does decide to make a claim concerning some portion of land, the matter will be resolved in court.

You right wingers sure do not seem to understand or respect federal court judgments though.

Bundy both owes the federal government $1.2 million and he has been ordered twice to get his cattle off at least four different parcels of federal land. He is trespassing. The "confrontation" engineered by Bundy was over the removal of the trespassing cattle.

Read the two orders. This is not that difficult.

Here is an order enforcing the 1998 injunction (and it references the terms including the fine for continued trespass):

The Link
 
So Paso approves of the Feds enforcing federal laws including sending armed agents for enforcement.
Now the precedent has been set will we see other federal law breakers visited by armed agents?
if all it takes is for a federal court to rule the laws were broken I am sure the gov't will get right on it.

We could increase our revenue stream by hundreds of millions.
 
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