Israel = the Good Guys in the Middle East; Turks proving to be our enemies

Garmel said:
All of those who surrendered were reporters according to my reliable, anti-Semitic sources. :p
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The pictures he showed before were confirmed by the Israeli government themselves that the men were not known Hamas soldiers but men they were detaining for investigation. Also the men did not surrender but were arrested/taken into custody.
 
Mona
I did not know Israel had said the men were not Hamas soldiers. Do you have a link for that.
And IF an Israeli years ago said Hamas was to be "managed"
What do you think that Israeli would say after Hamas tortured raped burned and murdered thousands of innocent Israeli citizens?
 
Monahorns said:
The pictures he showed before were confirmed by the Israeli government themselves that the men were not known Hamas soldiers but men they were detaining for investigation. Also the men did not surrender but were arrested/taken into custody.
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Which pictures? There are a lot of different ones out there. Just that one picture?

"were not known Hamas soldiers" That's a little vague.
 
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Deniers of atrocities committed by Hamas (such as, without limitation, rapes and baby killing) are the inbred offspring of Holocaust deniers.
 
Garmel said:
Which pictures? There are a lot of different ones out there. Just that one picture?

"were not known Hamas soldiers" That's a little vague.
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The pictures were of the men in their underwear sitting down outside. The initial report was that they were all Hamas soldiers who had surrendered to Israel. Now we are getting a more accurate report explaining what was happening in the pictures. I posted a video earlier. Here is another saying the same thing.

 
Horn6721 said:
Mona
I did not know Israel had said the men were not Hamas soldiers. Do you have a link for that.
And IF an Israeli years ago said Hamas was to be "managed"
What do you think that Israeli would say after Hamas tortured raped burned and murdered thousands of innocent Israeli citizens?
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The violence has been ongoing since 1948. The current situation isn't new it is fundamentally the same.
 
I think I'm going to have to take SinWar off my Christmas cards list...

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: (in a smarter world, I wouldn't need to paste these.)
 
Here is a timeline of Israel/ Palestine conflict since 1947
It starts with the Un declaration after WWII
After World War II, the UN votes for Palestine to be split into separate Jewish and Arab states, with Jerusalem under special international administration.
The plan fails after the Arab side rejects it, arguing that it is unfair to their majority population.
If you read the timeline and pay attention you will notice a trend.
Israel-Palestine: A timeline of the decades-long conflict
 
300px-Mamoru_Shigemitsu_signs_the_Instrument_of_Surrender%2C_officially_ending_the_Second_World_War.jpg

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battle-of-yorktown-gettyimages-959929304.jpg

300px-Field_Marshall_Keitel_signs_German_surrender_terms_in_Berlin_8_May_1945_-_Restoration.jpg

300px-Napoleon_on_Board_the_Bellerophon_-_Sir_William_Quiller_Orchardson.jpg
 
I said this before:

There's also the question of the seawater destroying altogether what's left of the Strip's already badly damaged water system, which draws on Gaza’s increasingly saltier aquifer. The whole flooding initiative could also bring down more buildings or entire blocks, making the place uninhabitable for years to come. The White House has reportedly expressed concern to Israeli leaders over the likely disastrous humanitarian and ecological fallout.
 
The US government needs to quit caring about these regional wars and focus on the border.
Unfortunately, people get manipulated by the media and get emotional.
 
The day the UN declared Israel to be a nation was one of those historical uses of raw power without legal basis. That's the one fact I can't get my head around. If you question the legality of their action, then ask yourself how much legal authority they have over the US. It's the same thing all around the world.

All borders were probably established in controversy. This one happened in the lifetime of our parents. It's fresh. The world wants to think it doesn't act that way any longer. Israel wants to be grandfathered in under the old rules. When did the old rules cease to exist? When we stuck the indigenous population onto reservations? Is anyone still doing that sort of thing?

I'm just sayin'.

My brother in law is Jewish. He told me he wasn't a Zionist but we didn't discuss it any further than that. He is also in fear of his safety though you don't seem to hear about anti-semitism so much in my hometown in South Texas.
 
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Both sides have major flaws.
People forget that we invaded America while Indians were living here. The Indians got mad and did bad things, then we did worse things. Now the Indians are all gone basically.
 
Yes the "Indians" were a barbaric lot, but it still was a land grab for $$$ reasons. Same with New Zealand, Australia, Hawaii, Africa etc...
China is doing bad things, so we should invade them. I wouldn't mind owning a parcel of land over there if we can put a bunch of Americans there. We can call Bejing- New Austin. Maybe I can start a new religion like Brigham Young did.
 
mchammer said:
I said this before:

There's also the question of the seawater destroying altogether what's left of the Strip's already badly damaged water system, which draws on Gaza’s increasingly saltier aquifer. The whole flooding initiative could also bring down more buildings or entire blocks, making the place uninhabitable for years to come. The White House has reportedly expressed concern to Israeli leaders over the likely disastrous humanitarian and ecological fallout.
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Wow. Never heard about their downside. I think Israel should think through this proposal. I'm not even sure how much Hamas is using the tunnels. It is plausible for sure, but would like to see actual evidence (not that I am owed that evidence unless they want American support for the action).
 
Creek said:
The US government needs to quit caring about these regional wars and focus on the border.
Unfortunately, people get manipulated by the media and get emotional.
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That is where I am. America First in the Republican party was gaining momentum just as the new Hamas attack happened and has completely derailed it. Sad. We have so many problems in our own country we should discussing.
 
Thanks Creek and bystander for providing some context. Such messy conflicts happened throughout history into today. It doesn't excuse the past sin but it also doesn't justify new sin or make people living today guilty for what happened 100s of years ago. But we should be able to learn how to address conflict better. Israel/Palestine shows us that humans haven't learned anything really. That is why my stance is for peace however that can be accomplished.
 
Monahorns said:
Thanks Creek and bystander for providing some context. Such messy conflicts happened throughout history into today. It doesn't excuse the past sin but it also doesn't justify new sin or make people living today guilty for what happened 100s of years ago. But we should be able to learn how to address conflict better. Israel/Palestine shows us that humans haven't learned anything really. That is why my stance is for peace however that can be accomplished.
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I think what Hamas did on Oct 7th was absolute barbarism and nothing that happened prior to that day justified the murder, rape or kidnapping of innocent people. They should be held to full account.

The context has to do with the full answer to the dispute. What I said won't move the Israeli's. They are going to take care of themselves. So, no matter the moral implications, they will never leave. Would they move back to the 1967 borders? The first question would be this:

Would terrorism cease?
 
People can rhapsodise pontificate and look for unicorns all day. And plenty of antisemites are all over the world..
One point ; a sovereign nation has a responsibility to protect its' citizens. As long as Hamas is allowed to exist they will pose a threat to innocent Israelis as well as Palestinians in Gaza.
For those calling for a cease-fire, There was one on Oct 6 , Hamas broke it early Oct 7 raping buring beheading torturing inncocent Israeli women and babies.
How can any intelligent person call for Israel to cease fire now?
 
bystander said:
I think what Hamas did on Oct 7th was absolute barbarism and nothing that happened prior to that day justified the murder, rape or kidnapping of innocent people. They should be held to full account.

The context has to do with the full answer to the dispute. What I said won't move the Israeli's. They are going to take care of themselves. So, no matter the moral implications, they will never leave. Would they move back to the 1967 borders? The first question would be this:

Would terrorism cease?
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I would never say Israelis should leave Israel. Never. But some of them should be removed from settlements and the land given back to the Palestinian owners. There are many examples of crimes like that happening over the last 10-20 years. But that doesn't mean Israel shouldn't exist or have to move back to 1967 borders.

I don't know if moving back to 1967 borders will help or not. I really don't know what will work. But I do know that as someone who doesn't live there and isn't in the middle of the situation, I will call both sides to take a step back, think rationally, pursue justice, avoid committing further injustice. Escalating violence doesn't solve the situation. It just makes both sides dig in their heels even more.
 
Creek said:
The US government needs to quit caring about these regional wars and focus on the border.
Unfortunately, people get manipulated by the media and get emotional.
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I can only speak for myself. I get "manipulated" when Americans are killed or held hostage for no reason
 
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